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Traversing 101 - Page 8

post #211 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


If this refers to an idea I posted, I meant that standing around in person (face to face) we would be more understanding and arrive spontaneously at an agreement.

or more likely, you would waste your breath yelling at other people for doing something that they're going to continue doing anyway.
post #212 of 394
OK face to face. I will be in Utah next month and I expect everyone to come and do the face to face thing!! Everone here should come and hammer this out on the hill!!
No excuses no hiding behind the PC, just get out here when we are all together and have it out!!!
Bring your bull horns to keep people in line
Put on your best gaper stuff so the guys with the bull horns have an easy target.
What ever you enjoy just "Bring it on"
Please remember this IS a family function so no "cluneing" with cast iron frying pans will be tollerated!!


 The Bootinator
post #213 of 394
 mrzinwin probably passes people on the interstate outside the yellow lines, after all he paid for it, it's his interstate. Same logic.
post #214 of 394
tell me you don't run stop signs on your daisy schwinn.
post #215 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post




or more likely, you would waste your breath yelling at other people for doing something that they're going to continue doing anyway.

 


you continue to project your perspective onto other people that you don't know. it goes nowhere. it's guessing,

mz, you wouldn't consider posting more about yourself in profile? Then I'd know the context in which you make things up about people.

boot, thanks for the invite, sounds so fun to be able to have a real conversation.  but, no, reeally, thanks.
post #216 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post





OK genius, sorry to "lecuture".



I had to re-read the whole post yesterday, and I realized we are quite a bit on the same page.  And initially, I never saw any of the  so I didn't realize when you were joking when I jumped on the end of the convo.  Although, I'm not quite sure still if there is too much entitlement, but whatever.  Also, the "Jer an idiot," I was saying, "you're an idiot," just using your name, so there is no irony.  The one thing we can agree on is that this mrzinwin, who also came on saying pretty much the same thing as me, is incapable of just letting something go, which, in turn, gives us something entertaining to read and respond to.  Keep it comin'.
post #217 of 394
  "I hate to be a jerk, but the more I think about it, if I can start my descent from the lift, why would I want to stand behind 50 people? How about it I'm not traversing, but making turns, holding onto the turns in one direction, while staying on the other edges only briefly, thus working across the hill to the untracked, while all the time seamlessly linking turns and moving downhill with rhythm and flow? Would that be OK? Where do you draw the line?"- Telerod


Sorry, Jerk. An elegant jerk perhaps, as opposed to the boarder who Zorro's the whole mountainside, but jerk nontheless. Don't try it at Alta. If people do, and get justly schooled, like I did when I was a rookie, don't come whinin' to me about yer rights.


When I go surfing, I drop in on every wave, no matter who's on it, after all, it's a free ocean, right? You can tell it hasn't snowed in a while. Been skiin with the ice skates.... 
post #218 of 394
 Oh dear me!

OK, no changing fall line from traverse to run out. Thanks, that's why I asked! Any restrictions on turn size I should know about?  Do we each get a whole lane, like a bowler, or should we snug our tracks up against each others like the bodies of sleeping lovers?
post #219 of 394
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post

see, year later,  Jer, and I are at it again

 


Actually, just you are at it again. I suppose it could be argued that you're getting all bent out of shape and I'm making a fool of you once again, but I'd counter that you're actually doing a better job of making a fool of yourself.
post #220 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post

  "I hate to be a jerk, but the more I think about it, if I can start my descent from the lift, why would I want to stand behind 50 people? How about it I'm not traversing, but making turns, holding onto the turns in one direction, while staying on the other edges only briefly, thus working across the hill to the untracked, while all the time seamlessly linking turns and moving downhill with rhythm and flow? Would that be OK? Where do you draw the line?"- Telerod


Sorry, Jerk. An elegant jerk perhaps, as opposed to the boarder who Zorro's the whole mountainside, but jerk nontheless. Don't try it at Alta. If people do, and get justly schooled, like I did when I was a rookie, don't come whinin' to me about yer rights.


When I go surfing, I drop in on every wave, no matter who's on it, after all, it's a free ocean, right? You can tell it hasn't snowed in a while. Been skiin with the ice skates.... 

 


It is a poor way to ski a slope because you require space in so many fall lines along the way, potentially interupting the runs of several people.



I picture surfers sort of rotating, and you drop in when you have moved to the front.



tele: that's such a nice image for just plain crowding someone on the slope. I picture them young and at an early stage (first month) in their relationship.
post #221 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


I picture surfers sort of rotating, and you drop in when you have moved to the front.

 

Actually, surfers kiind of do that take turns waiting in the best spots  However, when the wave begins to break, whoever happens to be in the best spot to catch the crest gets it.  Anyone else that drops in in their path is subject to a little ocean justice.  People catching the waves in other farther away spots that don't impede the guy on the good part aren't usually a factor to anybody.l  But then, it isn't like the water is "used up" after the ride like the powder is.

So, what is the "official" Ski Patrol view on this topic?  They could care less because they skied the best lines an hour before you got there
post #222 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post




Actually, surfers kiind of do that take turns waiting in the best spots  However, when the wave begins to break, whoever happens to be in the best spot to catch the crest gets it.  Anyone else that drops in in their path is subject to a little ocean justice.  People catching the waves in other farther away spots that don't impede the guy on the good part aren't usually a factor to anybody.l  But then, it isn't like the water is "used up" after the ride like the powder is.

So, what is the "official" Ski Patrol view on this topic?  They could care less because they skied the best lines an hour before you got there



 


on a major traverse the patrol sign it open or closed (on certain days) depending on whether the slopes above are 1)being skied at speed or 2)are unstable.
post #223 of 394
Most guys don't want to be in the water with a few "brown eels" floating around so when you get to the best spot ... 

Hey, whatever works and that always worked for me just make sure they're "floaters" afore you bag em' ..
post #224 of 394
 Hey, it's simple. Let's assume that everyone likes fresh, untracked powder. I've drawn a simple diagram of Alta's Devil's Castle. Gallant, in blue, and his 50 clones have all lined up patiently for their shot at fresh powder that heli skiers pay the big $ for. If everyone heads more or less straight down the fall line according to his/her best ability, it preserves the untracked stuff longer, some people, if they hit it at the rope drop can even lap it three or four times if their lungs hold out for the climb. The lower traverse, dotted line, is the bail out for the less fit, usually cut by patrol. It mostly crosses a natural saddle, so it doesn't disrupt a whole lot, but cutting alternate traverses above or below will of course, put a pretty big bump in the untracked. 
 Now Goofus, in red, is really tired of slogging along behind Gallant, and he's not really into long traverses and hell, he paid for a lift ticket, so he drops in early and cuts diagonally across the hill. His twin brother above on the higher traverse is fit enough to get up there, but it's steep, and he's just a beginner on his snowboard (he smuggled it in) so he " Zorro's" the powder. Now, Jer and others get really pissed off at this. Can the class tell me why? This shouldn't be so hard....





Don't ever lay cable in the lineup.Trust me, it's a mistake.
post #225 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post

 Hey, it's simple. Let's assume that everyone likes fresh, untracked powder. I've drawn a simple diagram of Alta's Devil's Castle. Gallant, in blue, and his 50 clones have all lined up patiently for their shot at fresh powder that heli skiers pay the big $ for. If everyone heads more or less straight down the fall line according to his/her best ability, it preserves the untracked stuff longer, some people, if they hit it at the rope drop can even lap it three or four times if their lungs hold out for the climb. The lower traverse, dotted line, is the bail out for the less fit, usually cut by patrol. It mostly crosses a natural saddle, so it doesn't disrupt a whole lot, but cutting alternate traverses above or below will of course, put a pretty big bump in the untracked. 
 Now Goofus, in red, is really tired of slogging along behind Gallant, and he's not really into long traverses and hell, he paid for a lift ticket, so he drops in early and cuts diagonally across the hill. His twin brother above on the higher traverse is fit enough to get up there, but it's steep, and he's just a beginner on his snowboard (he smuggled it in) so he " Zorro's" the powder. Now, Jer and others get really pissed off at this. Can the class tell me why? This shouldn't be so hard....





Don't ever lay cable in the lineup.Trust me, it's a mistake.
Zoro and Elastic man  hook up for an early run on Devil's Castle.

Wait a minute, so a couple galants on skiers left tried valliantly, had the morally correct idea, but were not able to execute?



totally hilarious. and so true. did you actually make the drawing, scan it, upload it and post? awesome. sounds a little like the McConkey: now class, this shouldn't be too hard: where would his hot tub be?
Edited by davluri - 1/13/10 at 8:11pm
post #226 of 394
Damn, that's suitable for framing. I need a poster!
post #227 of 394
 No, I drew it on my tablet. And gotta give credit for the traverse and crash method of turning as long as it's in the fall line and the traverses are short...  Sorry I was so harsh Telerod, I was surprised that you should even pose the question..... powder is a serious business around here...
post #228 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post




Actually, surfers kiind of do that take turns waiting in the best spots  However, when the wave begins to break, whoever happens to be in the best spot to catch the crest gets it.  Anyone else that drops in in their path is subject to a little ocean justice.  People catching the waves in other farther away spots that don't impede the guy on the good part aren't usually a factor to anybody.l  But then, it isn't like the water is "used up" after the ride like the powder is.

So, what is the "official" Ski Patrol view on this topic?  They could care less because they skied the best lines an hour before you got there



 

Skiing that would be like traversing into a really cool line about 200 feet below the highest start point and beginning your run right when someone is already skiing the line from the top.  So, top of line = crest of wave.
post #229 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by teledance View Post

 mrzinwin probably passes people on the interstate outside the yellow lines, after all he paid for it, it's his interstate. Same logic.

actually, the logic is completely ridiculously different....evidenced by the fact that there are yellow lines.
post #230 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post





you continue to project your perspective onto other people that you don't know. it goes nowhere. it's guessing,

mz, you wouldn't consider posting more about yourself in profile? Then I'd know the context in which you make things up about people.

boot, thanks for the invite, sounds so fun to be able to have a real conversation.  but, no, reeally, thanks.

"projecting your perspective onto other people"--yes that's what you do when you have a discussion

maybe you're not familiar with this concept?


making stuff up about people?  please explain to me what the hell you're talking about.  i'm curious.
post #231 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by guroo270 View Post

 The one thing we can agree on is that this mrzinwin, who also came on saying pretty much the same thing as me, is incapable of just letting something go, which, in turn, gives us something entertaining to read and respond to.  Keep it comin'.

glad to be of service
post #232 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post


Actually, just you are at it again. I suppose it could be argued that you're getting all bent out of shape and I'm making a fool of you once again, but I'd counter that you're actually doing a better job of making a fool of yourself.
 

actually, I had no idea you were on this thread--I saw the OP and recognized it as a bastardly perspective .  Turns out, it was the same @sshole I found a year ago. 
Edited by mrzinwin - 1/14/10 at 3:30am
post #233 of 394

what if someone can't ski a tight line in powder, but still enjoys skiing powder. What if someone enjoys skiing that "z" line?  Are you prepared to argue that he has no right to ski where he wants to (even though he actually does have that right)?  That's bull.  If you're not endangering others, and you're not breaking any rules of the resort, you have the right to ski wherever you want, however you want.  You don't have to listen to some elitist condescending ski snobs who make up their own rules and expect others to follow them.

When you own your own ski resort, you can make up whatever rules you want.  Until then, you need to keep those little rules to yourself.
Edited by mrzinwin - 1/14/10 at 3:38am
post #234 of 394
Lifts should go to the top.  I didn't buy a lift ticket so I could go cross-country skiing. 
post #235 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post

 No, I drew it on my tablet. And gotta give credit for the traverse and crash method of turning as long as it's in the fall line and the traverses are short...  Sorry I was so harsh Telerod, I was surprised that you should even pose the question..... powder is a serious business around here...

No need to apologize, I'm here to learn. Thanks!

I'll never traverse below the highest tracks and never meander from the fall line, but you didn't answer my question about turn size, would SG turns ruin too many lines? What about GS? Just an elegant variation of the Z tracks?
post #236 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Lifts should go to the top.  I didn't buy a lift ticket so I could go cross-country skiing. 

Yeah, I always figured anything that could be skied from the top of the lift was fair game and traversing/hiking was for getting the less tracked snow that couldn't be reached by gravity alone.

If I'm getting it, anything that can be accessed with a climb should be off limits to anyone who wants to enter the line from a lower point.
post #237 of 394
Anti-snowboarder bias to one side, the drawing is priceless.  Per: my earlier reference to supertopo, this in all seriousness is the type of thing that is easy to produce now (but not easy to produce with that level of humor and apt-ness).  But, while for so long as this thread is active people may find Jer's traverse "guide" and MC's extremely apt and funny "topo" on Google, in a few weeks it will be buried.  But there may well be people who would pay for a PDF containing the same.  Davluri had asked about sarcasm filters; while my average post may drip with it, in this case there's none.

Re: round, controlled turn shape, I think the answer is, "It depends."  First off, it needs to be recognized that a packed, rutted traverse is a very different feature to "create" on a slope than any "regular" ski track.  So cutting lower traverses is far more disruptive. 

Beyond that, "when in Rome."  Most people have a pretty good gauge, pretty quickly, of what "normal" practice is.  If 97% of  the good skiers are doing X, and X is somewhere ranging from strict turn farming to tight GS-ish shapes, you have your answer.  If in doubt, acting on the artificial assumption that the people you ride the lift with will know who you are and how you skied or rode, and therefore skiing or riding turn shapes that leave you feeling you weren't clearly a selfish ass, is a good way to go.

There are of course nasty snobs in addition to selfish or clueless gapers.  For instance, "Gallant" I have no problem with.  If everyone fell like that, it would trash a slope pretty quickly, but the problem is generally self-correcting.  But I have seen people rage-call Gallant when, while he or she may be in over their head, they are descending in good style, to the best of their abilities.  (If it's Gallant's 10th lap, saying in a low-key way that you don't want to see them hurt themselves, etc. might be called for, though.)  Generally the rage-callers are not, themselves, particularly good skiers or riders.  This is similar to some of the most gung-ho idiots on some traverses.  While it's good to be mindful of good eitiquette, the idea is to maximize the usage of something like a traverse for everyone.  On the actual slopes this is pretty easy stuff to assimilate and actually pretty non-intimidating.  And if, say, conditions or slope-wise you do get in a bit over your head, that's also happened to everyone. 
post #238 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post




No need to apologize, I'm here to learn. Thanks!

I'll never traverse below the highest tracks and never meander from the fall line, but you didn't answer my question about turn size, would SG turns ruin too many lines? What about GS? Just an elegant variation of the Z tracks?
 

GS and larger sized turns are a cool, and in powder they end up more in the fall line. We'll get Crab to draw a few in. Go for it, and dig it.Giant fun.

I'm aware that just answering seems pompous, like giving permission to do something on MY snow. Not the case. Just giving you a read on local cool, if you're interested.
post #239 of 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzinwin View Post




what if someone can't ski a tight line in powder, but still enjoys skiing powder. What if someone enjoys skiing that "z" line?  Are you prepared to argue that he has no right to ski where he wants to (even though he actually does have that right)?  That's bull.  If you're not endangering others, and you're not breaking any rules of the resort, you have the right to ski wherever you want, however you want.  You don't have to listen to some elitist condescending ski snobs who make up their own rules and expect others to follow them.

When you own your own ski resort, you can make up whatever rules you want.  Until then, you need to keep those little rules to yourself.
 

I gotta admit I'm on the same side as this guy.  I know what all you fall line only guys are talking about, but you just can't expect someone who can't make those turns, but still wants to tour that part of the mountain, from doing what they want to do, unless you own the mountain.  And if you want this perfect world of fall line skiing, you are going to need Obama to socialize skiing and require licenses.  It would take something of this scale to accomplish what you want.  Not just a thread on the internet where us guys that "know better" get to see it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Lifts should go to the top.  I didn't buy a lift ticket so I could go cross-country skiing. 
Ding, Ding, Ding! As I said before, the fall line only guys are asking people to know some counter intuitive rule of getting to the top of the mountain and looking for a way to work really hard to traverse...and for a person to A) know this when they go skiing once a year, once every five years, or even 5 times a year is absurd, and B) to give a rats ass...just, good luck with that.  I'd throw a guess out there that resorts don't enforce any thing like this because the guys that do follow these rules are the ones that have season passes and the resort makes less money on them than the lift ticket purchaser.  So their interest is not to please you guys, but allow the lift ticket guys to do whatever they want.  If they cared about you traversers, everthing would be roped off.  



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crab View Post

 Hey, it's simple. Let's assume that everyone likes fresh, untracked powder. I've drawn a simple diagram of Alta's Devil's Castle. Gallant, in blue, and his 50 clones have all lined up patiently for their shot at fresh powder that heli skiers pay the big $ for. If everyone heads more or less straight down the fall line according to his/her best ability, it preserves the untracked stuff longer, some people, if they hit it at the rope drop can even lap it three or four times if their lungs hold out for the climb. The lower traverse, dotted line, is the bail out for the less fit, usually cut by patrol. It mostly crosses a natural saddle, so it doesn't disrupt a whole lot, but cutting alternate traverses above or below will of course, put a pretty big bump in the untracked. 
 Now Goofus, in red, is really tired of slogging along behind Gallant, and he's not really into long traverses and hell, he paid for a lift ticket, so he drops in early and cuts diagonally across the hill. His twin brother above on the higher traverse is fit enough to get up there, but it's steep, and he's just a beginner on his snowboard (he smuggled it in) so he " Zorro's" the powder. Now, Jer and others get really pissed off at this. Can the class tell me why? This shouldn't be so hard....





Don't ever lay cable in the lineup.Trust me, it's a mistake.

This is a wonderful drawing depicting this, and I think it was alta where someone said people make 50 different "cable" tracks, that would become annoying.  However, there is only so much powder, and to get it, the early bird gets the worm.  It's like playing golf on fresh greens in the morning and tracked up greens in the afternoon.  Idiots are going to make it to the course, it's up to you to beat them out there.  They are not going to rake bunkers, fix ball marks or replace divots.  IT....IS....PART OF THE GAME.  Also, (flame away) I do not like making cute little jib turns.  I do not think it is as fun as making big arching turns like boarders.  So I am still a day ruiner for you guys, but I wouldn't change anything I do because of some gripe, unless I was in the wrong.
post #240 of 394
It's not about rights, or right or wrong, or anyone allowing anyone else anything. It's about the intuitive and natural urge to blend in and enjoy the group conciousness. On the hill it's mostly alll very subtle and civilized.

And the wonderful drawing aside, big turns are awesome (not the same as travesing or zoro-ing.)
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