EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › my suggestion ESA Coaches Forum
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

my suggestion ESA Coaches Forum

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
You've all seen my signature.

The time has come to not shaddap.

Huge whining and fussing going on on epicski, which bothers me, cause see I love epicski. New friends met and ski'd with, new gear suggested, subsequently acquired and conquered, demo team videos I was turned onto by other members so I could digest and emulate, and many new virtual friends found too who I hope to ski with.

Frankly, epicski rocks, but not so much lately. Whining, pontificating, ego stroking, lotsa crap and even worse crap about the crap has me thinking it is time to step up and make a suggestion....one made with heartfelt sincerity and much thought.....

So (drum roll) here is the "how bout we shaddap and ski" guy ponying up with an idea.

HH has it(and controls it with an iron fist)
Amsao has it
CSIA and divisions of CSIA have it

What is it that we need?

A place where our esteemed ESA coaches can soar, an ESA coaches forum. A heavily moderated place where our ESA coaches can post on technique, answer moderated questions and just generally share their wisdom with the membership, safe from silly posts, throwdowns and chest thumping from others..

Imagine skiers like Jerry Berg(who as I have said before is my ski god) putting up video of their skiing and breaking it down frame by frame, describing what they do in detail and more importantly how it feels while doing it. I rely now on the Italians for form to emulate....can you imagine if I could have a frame by frame explanation of Jerry Berg in various conditions? Or Jeb Boyd or BB? Or Nolo, who I think flows down a hill like water, and can articulate every movement in detail.

Let's give our best their due. A special place, coaches only. Not a coach? You're out.

Wow!

I envision a forum where only ESA coaches are allowed to give virtual information. HH controls his site with an iron fist, why can't we do the same.....

One forum - the best of our best, Barnes, Weem, Nolo, Boyd and others bringin it. Safe and moderated and free from inside and outside noise. Every day.

My opinion?

Would be the best darn ski material on the internet.

Let the noise continue in the other forums....I just tune it out anyway.

ESA Coaches only forum.

The time has come. Stand up, honor yourselves and get er done....

DOIT:
post #2 of 24
post #3 of 24
ditto!
post #4 of 24
What if this was primarily active during the off-season? Noting that for some of our coaches, their north/south winter seasons means that they might not have much...
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
weems, barnes and nolo have all posted extensively during the season, even this season....

berg, boyd etc can contribute when and if they have time. Just the fact that it is policed and the chest puffing will not be possible should entice most of the coaches to feel safe and welcome to chime in.

I feel pretty strongly about this. Our coaches are the creme de la creme. Let's give em a forum to shine.

Again, pretty clear...not a coach...out of this exclusive venue.

Sorry.

Only our best can apply. No accusations can be made of favoritism or profiteering. Coaches only, clean, pure and simple.

It will work and epicski will shine brightly.
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrstrat57 View Post
Coaches only, clean, pure and simple.
My suggestion would be to broaden it to include others that would make great ESA coaches. The problem is you need enough experts available to answer questions and provide MA on a timely basis.
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
My suggestion would be to broaden it to include others that would make great ESA coaches. The problem is you need enough experts available to answer questions and provide MA on a timely basis.
My suggested forum would be heavily monitored by forum monitors selected by the coaches...the moderators would also be coaches. Only coaches would be assoc with this forum...it would belong to them. Exclusively. From what I have seen since if have lurked on epic for over 4 years, Weems, Nolo and Barnes are always avail to chime in. Those 3 can wax poetically re any technique discussion IMHO. Perhaps it is likely that they would be the moderators/forum leaders. Perhaps not.

Having all aspects of my proposed forum controlled 100% by coaches and coaches only would completely eliminate all of the noise. There could be no accusations of cronyism, profiteering, favoritism or grandstanding. There would be no chest puffing, if disagreement existed between the coaches it would be worked out between them so as to present a professional face to the discussions at all times.

No one would be accused of championing the cause of a personal agenda. Epicski and it's best interests would be the agenda.

If the coaches are willing to step up and honor themselves with the task the plan is bombproof.

Epicski will become the source on the internet for discussion of ski technique.

Run by coaches, policed by coaches....and only coaches...I am satisfied that our elite coaches would need no assistance from any other experts to provide a quality experience. ESA coaches are the elite.

Let's give them the venue they deserve, sit back and enjoy.

Again, bombproof.
post #8 of 24
Good idea. If implemented, please DO NOT broaden it to include others. This is EpicSki. EpicSki runs academies that are well received. Let the proposed forum be the province exclusively of coaches of any of the past EpicSki Academies so folks can hear what is being taught there and why.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_m View Post
Good idea. If implemented, please DO NOT broaden it to include others. This is EpicSki. EpicSki runs academies that are well received. Let the proposed forum be the province exclusively of coaches of any of the past EpicSki Academies so folks can hear what is being taught there and why.
Its an interesting idea but it only partially addresses the problem.

A) The instructional forum is basically broken at this point.

B) There are a bunch of experts that post on Epic frequently (some ESA coaches but many others that are not...Rick, Holiday, Snopro, etc...).

C) The community needs to figure out a way to move the high level comments from that group of guys out of the noise.
post #10 of 24
If nobody could post there but coaches wouldn't we just end up with a couple of monologues? Also, it seems like a waste of resources when the likes of Alpental Angle would not be allowed to post there. I personally think the forum would be as dead as the Supporters Instruction Forum or whatever it's called. It seems like you'd need some outside influence either coaches would start threads and the plebes could ask questions in response to them, or plebes could start threads and only coaches could answer them. What I think is maybe our Instruction Forum is just too civilized. Maybe Ric and Rick should just go TGR on the people that are weakening it.
post #11 of 24
I would be cautious with this? guys like myself or TDK6 or others who do not fit the mold could be alienated and possibly drop out? If someone is made to feel they do not have value, as deemed so by another party, people will be offended.

If there were an easy way to identify posters (with their credentials listed on each post or some sort of designation heirarchy) background for all to see and apply their own value to the comments by that particular poster, perhaps that may serve the purpose? Part of the dynamics that draws people into posting here on epic is the fact that they can express their opinions and defend them or reevaluate them based on responses. It is this interaction that many enjoy and look forward to. If I can only read others monologues and not express my thoughts in that conversation I will quickly lose any interest in logging in!!!!!

I want to learn as I think everyone here does. I will bet Barnes, Reiter, Kane, Weems, etal will admit openly that they are still learning. We all want to share our knowledge and beliefs with others and learn from our peers. I do not want to see this site turn into something like "realskiers" where conflicting ideas are stricken from the board. I understand the idea of keeping the focus on the core ideas which PMTS does but there are negatives to this too.

food for thought.
b
post #12 of 24
ha ha. Hey Max, I'm all for trying anything. You made a good point. It will undoubtedly become fairly arbitrary or heavily biased about who gets to be a privileged poster and who doesn't get to be a privileged poster.

Still, I am starting to like the idea that there is a moderated area where selected questions are answered and discussed only by a team of actual experts as chosen by the people that own Epic(shrug). It may not always be what I want to see posted, but there will always be this "broken" forum for that. At least that other forum would be a place where answers to common questions would be kept without all the other flack that is often present. I suspect the traffic on it would be much lower, just quality content and would fundamentally be a better place to search for answers when you have a question about something. yes it would often read like a monologue and often times I suspect there would be only one post to answer a question, or occasionally several follow ups to clarify. Every once in a while a debate between the experts perhaps. Or perhaps they will debate offline in the supporter section and then post their official statement in the answer forum when they're done. (shrug)

Another option would be to elect certain experts and give them the privilege of not only writing responses in that special "answer forum", but also to copy posts from other non-pros that they read and deem valuable enough to move or copy into the "answers forum".
post #13 of 24
It seems like this and the us/them thread are on the same subject. I posted my response over there.
post #14 of 24
The problem is that people who consider themselves to be the experts of epicski see epicski as their place to post their instruction, and need to distinguish their instruction from the much criticized advice posted epicski, advice which is given by all and sundry.

Giving the ESA coaches a forum containing only advice approved by the Epicski experts would solve that problem.

I suspect people would visit that forum to get the ESA way to ski just as often as they visit the PMTS forum to get the PMTS way to ski and the CSIA website to get the PSIA way to ski.
post #15 of 24
Guys, we have three spin off threads all on the same original subject as the us and them thread.

Please post in there any and all ideas. Thanks
post #16 of 24
For once I agree with you Bud and this board would loose a great bit of healthy argumentation if we both would pack it up. We need to ask ourselves what makes a good forum and I know exactly what I think is carpola; a slow forum. At epic we have lots of posters from all over the world and if we really wanted to make this forum the best skiing site on the planet all it would take is to get lots of active members. How do we do that? Simple, by making this a fun place to be. Not much fun if we hack down on each other. Fun and educational. Also, just because Bud is not an ESA coach doesent make him less worth in a skiing discussion or giving MA. On the contraty, the world is full of great skiers and to limit epic ski to ESA coaches would be a huge misstake. To limit MA performers to certified instructors would also be a misstake. I think that the forum should be open to everyone and that reading would be at everyones own risk. Posting videos of our skiing and listing our credentials is important so please, everybody do that.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
This is not a spin off thread, with all due respect this is a specific pointed suggestion. Not a spin off thread. My idea, mine alone.

Not a spin off thread.

I am suggesting a new forum, a coaches place. Not killing the existing forum. No intent to hurt anyone's feelings. Sorry sincerely if I did.

RicB specifically and tdk6 you know how I feel about you 2, and others as well. (RicB I actually thought you were a coach FWIW, your content IMHO is the best on the site)

A forum where no noise is possible...

The other forums remain, no one is banished....

Of course perhaps my opinion on the topic is meaningless....

Delete my thread, I'll walk away gladly....

I still have my signature and the Italians....

I am all set.

Rant, whine and fight on if that is what we want.

BTW they are having a real giggle with us on TGR, not that we care but I hate when epicski looks silly.
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post
Still, I am starting to like the idea that there is a moderated area where selected questions are answered and discussed only by a team of actual experts as chosen by the people that own Epic(shrug). It may not always be what I want to see posted, but there will always be this "broken" forum for that. At least that other forum would be a place where answers to common questions would be kept without all the other flack that is often present. I suspect the traffic on it would be much lower, just quality content and would fundamentally be a better place to search for answers when you have a question about something. yes it would often read like a monologue and often times I suspect there would be only one post to answer a question, or occasionally several follow ups to clarify. Every once in a while a debate between the experts perhaps. Or perhaps they will debate offline in the supporter section and then post their official statement in the answer forum when they're done. (shrug)

Another option would be to elect certain experts and give them the privilege of not only writing responses in that special "answer forum", but also to copy posts from other non-pros that they read and deem valuable enough to move or copy into the "answers forum".
YES!!!

Rant on

< hrstrat57 is very miffed that his thread he worked 3 hours on last night is being called a spin off thread. The other thread has a pink floyd song for a title. (I like pink floyd a lot) and is a mostly collection of rants, whines and putting forth of personal agendas.

This thread is a
specific pointed suggestion, crying out for serious consideration amidst all the hate and discontent that has been tossed around here since SCSA did his MA. It is presented for discussion. That is all.

It has zero to do with pink floyd.....

I HAVE NO AGENDA - I LOVE EPICSKI

Take it or leave it
>

Rant off
post #19 of 24
The threads dealing with the same subject and/or closely related subjects have produced very interesting ideas, and if someone suggested deleting the chance of all to post in a general instruction and technique forum, I must have missed it - which is certainly possible. I am opposed to shutting off general discussion in the general instruction and technique forum by anyone (except for those who violate website policies). I am strongly in favor of a new feature controlled by ESA coaches, another for ESA bootfitters, etc.
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
The threads dealing with the same subject and/or closely related subjects have produced very interesting ideas, and if someone suggested deleting the chance of all to post in a general instruction and technique forum, I must have missed it - which is certainly possible. I am opposed to shutting off general discussion in the general instruction and technique forum by anyone (except for those who violate website policies). I am strongly in favor of a new feature controlled by ESA coaches, another for ESA bootfitters, etc.
Thanks Oboe.

As you can see, I suggest a new forum. The other features of the site remain....at no time did I intend to hurt anyone's feelings. This is my thread with my very specific suggestion. The suggestion is made in a heartfelt manner as a caring member who has garnered fantastic value from epicski. It has been a profound part of my life. I have been very troubled by the bickering that has continued since the SCSA movement analysis. The noise level is such that (as max501 states so eloquently) the technique forum is broken.

I am suggesting a fix, albeit perhaps only a partial fix.....

Agree or disagree, discuss or don't.

But please don't insult me by calling it a spinoff thread.

My signature is back on...... and I am back outside to enjoy this glorious first day of daylight saving time day!

I hope we can ski together Oboe some day....I am sure I would enjoy your company. Have a great summer!!!

I will make no further comments regarding this matter either in public forum or via pm.

OUT
post #21 of 24
Bud-
Though you may not have been a group coach at an ESA, your attendance in your capacity as a boot fitter/ alignment specialist (combined with your other outstanding credentials) should qualify you for this list...hands down! Don't doubt yourself for a minute about that!

Max 501, just for your information, I did coach groups at ESA 1,2, and 3, and 2 ETU's in Stowe. Because I am not on the current coaching roaster, should I be excluded? If the powers that be feel I am not of the caliber to participate in such a group, then I won't say a word.

Granted, limiting the group based on being an ESA coach makes it a clean way to create the group, with the least amount of subjectivity. But it would also eliminate many other top pro's who are interested in participating and would be extremely positive contributors to such a forum.
It would also eliminate several other EXPERTS in their respective fields, as I gave examples of in other threads... Physicsman, dp, etc... Do we want to lose their incredible input?

Let me also make something perfectly clear. I have never once suggested that ANYTHING be removed from the current forums. Anything which should develop out of all that is being generated in these 3 threads should be in ADDITION to what already exists.
I have never suggested that anybody does not have the right to post whatever they care to, either! My interest is finding a "quieter" place where specific and accurate information may be made available to those asking for it, without the distractions of the associated garbage which gets dumped into most threads currently.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrstrat57 View Post
Thanks Oboe.

As you can see, I suggest a new forum. The other features of the site remain....at no time did I intend to hurt anyone's feelings. This is my thread with my very specific suggestion. The suggestion is made in a heartfelt manner as a caring member who has garnered fantastic value from epicski. It has been a profound part of my life. I have been very troubled by the bickering that has continued since the SCSA movement analysis. The noise level is such that (as max501 states so eloquently) the technique forum is broken.

I am suggesting a fix, albeit perhaps only a partial fix.....

Agree or disagree, discuss or don't.

But please don't insult me by calling it a spinoff thread.

My signature is back on...... and I am back outside to enjoy this glorious first day of daylight saving time day!

I hope we can ski together Oboe some day....I am sure I would enjoy your company. Have a great summer!!!

I will make no further comments regarding this matter either in public forum or via pm.

OUT
hrstart57, thank you for the kind invitation and good wishes. Be forewarned that you would either leave me in the dust, or else you'd be bored to tears dumbing down your skiing to my level. But thanks anyway, and have a great spring and summer season yourself.
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oboe View Post
hrstart57, thank you for the kind invitation and good wishes. Be forewarned that you would either leave me in the dust, or else you'd be bored to tears dumbing down your skiing to my level. But thanks anyway, and have a great spring and summer season yourself.
LOL Oboe.

If that is true(and I seriously doubt that it is) it is the company I would enjoy.

We will plan on finding out.

Cheers my virtual friend
post #24 of 24
Or you could just give out esa stars for ESA coach-tye people to post in their sigs.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › my suggestion ESA Coaches Forum