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OK I'm Game Give Me some MA - Page 3

post #61 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by borntoski683 View Post

SkiDude, I agree his skiing is high level and I agree with RicB, at any level there can be coaching. You think the WC coaches sit around all day and only tell their skiers how great they look? I certainly hope their only advice is not to tell the skiers to go faster through bigger bumps. I would hope that they would analyze the deficiencies and then in fact take them back to "tamer" terrain to focus on the specific movements which are not as effective as they could be. Taking it up to nastier terrain later goes without saying.

cheers.
Well no, WC coaches do not sit around all day....but they do often simply tell thier skiers "great run...do it again". I don't believe that at this stage it is technique that is holding Viking back....his technique is solid. He defiantly doesn't need to "go back to tamer terrain". He needs the opposite! He needs to pushed, and let it known that it is ok to get bent out of shape a little, then recover....that is what great skiing is. Just look at Bode....I was discussing this in a pm...and I remebered a post I did a while back in a thread called "Inspirational Skiing". http://forums.epicski.com/archive/in...p?t-41367.html

This is where Viking needs to go.....sure he may need to further refine his core technique, or fundamentals...but exactley where that effort needs to go, could only be determined for sure, by seeing him push the limits of the technique he has now....I wouldn't cheat a student of this calibre by "assuming" where he will fall apart when he dials it up.....I'd try it and see...and if done right, it should be FUN and INSPIRE the student to new hieghts....and just before the safety police jump in...there is no reason why it can't be done safely as well.

Going back to "tamer terrain" would bore this guy to death...talk about missed opportunity!!...skiing should be fun, and lessons should be awesome...and working on simutaneous edge changes or longer legs is all dogma until you actually see these things holding him back....
post #62 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post
This is where Viking needs to go.....sure he may need to further refine his core technique, or fundamentals...but exactley where that effort needs to go, could only be determined for sure, by seeing him push the limits of the technique he has now....I wouldn't cheat a student of this calibre by "assuming" where he will fall apart when he dials it up.....I'd try it and see...and if done right, it should be FUN and INSPIRE the student to new hieghts....and just before the safety police jump in...there is no reason why it can't be done safely as well.
I agree. He can ski, and I'm sure he can ski well in tougher situations. I know for me, skiing difficult terrain affects my comfidence. When I ski it well, I set the bar higher. When I get my butt kicked, I get humilty and a reality check that motivates me.

I'm sure he knows his limitations well enough to do it safely.
post #63 of 73
72, I don't see it as robbing anyone. A high level skier such as MD certainly doesn't need to leave their favorite terrain to improve. With the right focus they can improve their game right where they want to play. On the other hand, dialing it down and moving to tamer terrain is a great way to really dial in to accurate movements without the distractions and speed of the bumps and steeps. sometimes both venues combined is the most effective route to improvement. Dial in on something, then move it laterally into real world skiing.

What I suggested could be played with right in the bumps, but it could also be presented on the groom, exagerated, refined, and understood, and then it could be taken out in the bumps very successfully. Alot of the descision on how to approach this would be up to the students goals and motivations.
post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
On the other hand, dialing it down and moving to tamer terrain is a great way to really dial in to accurate movements without the distractions and speed of the bumps and steeps.
I agree completely. In fact, I think its very difficult to address the timing/sequencing of the edge change pointed out earlier on anything but tamer terrain.
post #65 of 73
I'm with skidude72 here. I'm sure this guy could do virtually anything Max could dream up, on a flat groomed trail. Would that change his technique? Yep! Would it make him a better skier...nope.

Let's see some video of skiing at higher speeds on more challenging terrain (pushing himself, at the edge of control), and then we can talk about what he actually needs to work on.
post #66 of 73
I guess it would depend on what happens when he steps up to more challenging terrain. Skiing well on harder stuff can really improve your skiing. It can force you to recognize that you can't just dabble, you have to do it right.

I see a lot of people go to places like Mad River and ski stuff that would under normal conditions, be beyond reach. You can see them improve. It's do or die. Challenging terrain can give great feedback.

On the other hand, if it breaks down his skiing ability, that's no good. It never hurts to slow it down and focus on skill, to ski fast on blues, to work on precission.

In other words, you can and should do both.
post #67 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
(pushing himself, at the edge of control),
I don't buy that. Control is where it's at on steep, nasty terrain. Especially when you are trying to get better.
post #68 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
I don't buy that. Control is where it's at on steep, nasty terrain. Especially when you are trying to get better.
That's why I said at the edge of control, not out of control. Big difference.
post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
That's why I said at the edge of control, not out of control. Big difference.
Safety first. And I'd say sometimes a "fine line".
post #70 of 73
I agree with all these comments in principle. It is true that in most cases you will stay on the students favorite terrain, or even to easier terrain to work on things....but for the tops guys...like Viking...you need to work on skills, but also the physcology...you need a coaching style approach.

Next time, the issue of why advanced/expert skiers don't take lessons....think about this thread...I hear it all the time...alot of the advanced public view lessons as slow, boring, and alot of standing around.

Some of the approaches above, for Viking, would be like a race coach trying to develop athletes by only setting courses on green runs, and telling them to keep the speed down......only let it rip when the coach is not around......of course they don't do this, even on "less then perfect technique" athletes.

Just to help clarify my point....while I would definatley ramp Viking up, if I had someone like Highway Star, I would probably do the oppoiste, and take a "maximum speed, minimum terrian" approach. Don't get me wrong, i think HS skiing is awesome - not perfect, but he goes for it, and I like that(I think I was one of the few who defended his skiing in the famous HS MA thread),...he skis on the edge naturally, he doesn't need me pushing him beyond it.

Hence there I would take an approach closer to RicB, then of course work it back into full tilt skiing....
post #71 of 73
Thread Starter 
I'd point out one thing about the video to address the terrain comments. It was taken on the Black and Double Blacks on Grouse Mountain at Beaver Creek while certainly not the steepest or most challenging I would say fairly difficult.

It goes to show that video particularly poorly compressed video flattens terrain out. On the other hand I can ski faster and still remain in control. I can also ski steeper although there is not much steeper stuff in Summit or the Vail Valley.
post #72 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingMD View Post
I'd point out one thing about the video to address the terrain comments. It was taken on the Black and Double Blacks on Grouse Mountain at Beaver Creek while certainly not the steepest or most challenging I would say fairly difficult.

It goes to show that video particularly poorly compressed video flattens terrain out. On the other hand I can ski faster and still remain in control. I can also ski steeper although there is not much steeper stuff in Summit or the Vail Valley.
This is another good point Viking....what is steep and challenging for one....is not necessarily for another...a coaching, challenge approach can be taken with any confident skier...you just need to adjust for each student...it may simply be taking a strong "Blue run skier" to their first black run.....or pushing Viking to not just ski those double blacks but to attack them....it is all relative.
post #73 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by VikingMD View Post
I'd point out one thing about the video to address the terrain comments. It was taken on the Black and Double Blacks on Grouse Mountain at Beaver Creek while certainly not the steepest or most challenging I would say fairly difficult.

It goes to show that video particularly poorly compressed video flattens terrain out. On the other hand I can ski faster and still remain in control. I can also ski steeper although there is not much steeper stuff in Summit or the Vail Valley.
They do look steep, there's no question about that, it's clear to me by the video. But the bumps look spaced nicely and are round and soft, which decreases the difficultly by a good bit. Not pushing you too hard from the looks of it.

I'd like to see some video in one of the following situations:

- A fairly tight chute with limited room for turning, and with choppy, variable snow.
- Tight, rutted, packed bumps, on a trail that's slightly less steep
- Trees, preferably tight and steep
- Mini-crud bumps, skied fast (nearing the edge of control), with GS turns

Not a challenge, I just think seeing some video of you in those situations would give us more to work with.
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