EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › EpicSki Community › Getting Together, Gatherings and Let's Go - ESA Discussions › Realskiers/PMTS/HH/SCSA....CALLING YOU OUT for a SKI-OFF!
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Realskiers/PMTS/HH/SCSA....CALLING YOU OUT for a SKI-OFF! - Page 5

post #121 of 323
3/10/07 at 10:47pm
Wrong. HH doesnt own Real skiers. he just kind of rules it with an iron fist.
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post #122 of 323
3/11/07 at 3:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCS View Post
Vivian is small, energetic mid-aged woman who has taken some PMTS to add to her 'bag of tricks'. I spent a day learning with her and she is more a traditional type teacher than strictly PMTS. I enjoyed the day, she is a very nice woman, but not what HS has in mind.
Wouldn't it be lovely if Diana Rogers showed up to kick a little hs butt! Love it when a woman takes down a cocky fellow like that.
But this is what this guy does, stirs up pages of stupid quasi- controversy.
Knowing what I know of HS, he would welcome a female competitor and would be the first to admit defeat if she did wipe up the mountain with him. Hell, if Zudnig came back from the grave and beat him down HS would wave the white flag and give him a scratch behind the ears.
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post #123 of 323
3/11/07 at 5:32am
I've been in the the Jay Peak citizen's downhill. My speed was sixty something, they gave me a little certificate, but I did not keep tabs on it, as I was not impressed by the speed. Some A-hole stepped into the course to get a view uphill just as I was making my run and I came out of my tuck in preparation for evasive action. I have also pretty much straight-lined everything at Jay Peak. The speeds I got at Jay were nothing compared to what I was able to reach at even a small western Mountain like Mt. Washington BC back when I was still young and reckless, but I didn't have a radar gun, GPS, or anything else to confirm my speed back then. I still say you can get a higher speed straight lining a western chute or near cliff that leads onto a black or double black than in a Jay Peak Downhill.

This thread is extremely entertaining.

If I lived nearby I would pretend to be PMTS just to get the free lift ticket. Win loose or draw it would be a lot of fun.
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post #124 of 323
3/11/07 at 9:53am
I'll add to Epic's ticket offer and throw in a place to stay.
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post #125 of 323
3/11/07 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post

I CHALLENGE ANY PMTS SKIER TO A SKI-OFF, including Herald Harb himself. I want to see if any of you can ACTUALLY SKI. Somehow, I doubt it....I think you're all attitude, hype, and carving groomers.


ANSWER MY CHALLENGE, PMTS SKIERS!!!!!

CAN YOU ACTUALLY SKI?!?!
HH in cats meow and A-bowl at loveland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW2cT9DArUo

HS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVsV2EFvDkM

Now, seriously who do you consider a better skier HH or HS?
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post #126 of 323
3/11/07 at 7:39pm
Hey, I'll drive the 1.5 hours up 89 and film it for a lift ticket. Could be pretty entertaining. I'd make clips and post them up wherever folks want.
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post #127 of 323
3/11/07 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
If I lived nearby I would pretend to be PMTS just to get the free lift ticket.

Haha, yeah, I was seriously considering doing this . . .

I have no idea what PMTS is, though . . . Every time I see one of those posts I just ignore it . . .
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post #128 of 323
3/11/07 at 8:05pm
As ridiculous as this thread is it does provide some insight into the problems with skiing and instruction especially when you think about how it would be judged.

You see people like HS actually believe that they are expert skiers because they can cowboy over some rocks. This is similar to the GP and why they don't go to instruction.They're skiing blacks why do they ned a lesson? But neither HS or the GP have any idea what truly high level skiing looks like. They dont have the skills or eye.

As for the actual contest there are plenty of guys at Stowe to dust you. Look Brownie up.
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post #129 of 323
3/12/07 at 6:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
As ridiculous as this thread is it does provide some insight into the problems with skiing and instruction especially when you think about how it would be judged.

You see people like HS actually believe that they are expert skiers because they can cowboy over some rocks. This is similar to the GP and why they don't go to instruction.They're skiing blacks why do they ned a lesson? But neither HS or the GP have any idea what truly high level skiing looks like. They dont have the skills or eye.

As for the actual contest there are plenty of guys at Stowe to dust you. Look Brownie up.
You don't even have a clue....ROFL.......

I've been at expert level for almost 15 years, and have more skills and eye than a large majority of the people on this board, including the instructors....the difference is that I'm focused on actually skiing, not drills to polish my carving technique....
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post #130 of 323
3/12/07 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
You don't even have a clue....ROFL.......

I've been at expert level for almost 15 years, and have more skills and eye than a large majority of the people on this board, including the instructors....the difference is that I'm focused on actually skiing, not drills to polish my carving technique....
As I said before you're a good example. All you're doing with your "actual skiing" is ingraining the same poor movement patterns deeper into your muscle memory. All skiers that are serious about improving or even just tweaking up theri skills at the start of a season run through drills no matter what their methodology.
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post #131 of 323
3/12/07 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
As I said before you're a good example. All you're doing with your "actual skiing" is ingraining the same poor movement patterns deeper into your muscle memory. All skiers that are serious about improving or even just tweaking up theri skills at the start of a season run through drills no matter what their methodology.
Thank you volklskier. 15 years of the same bad turns is entirely possible, in fact common. Improvement requires some fairly unpleasant work, getting worse for a spell, followed by a positive change in technique.

If all you do is have fun bashing through the woods it just won't happen. All depends on what you want out of the sport.
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post #132 of 323
3/12/07 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
As I said before you're a good example. All you're doing with your "actual skiing" is ingraining the same poor movement patterns deeper into your muscle memory. All skiers that are serious about improving or even just tweaking up theri skills at the start of a season run through drills no matter what their methodology.
I think somewhere along this line of thought, we get into the question of What is good skiing. Is good skiing = having good form? who decides good form? are there differences of opinions on this? Is good skiing = getting down the race course the fastest or getting down the mountain the fastest? Highwaystar may lack the precision on groomed runs (or all over the mountain) but he has a set of skills that allow him to get down more of the mountain than someone who has a lot of good technical skills but no real world applications.

I, personally, am a firm beliver in the thought that you can't build a house with out a solid foundation. But as you get better and better the rate at which you improve on that metaphorical foundation slows down exponentially. And while you can keep producing a supersolid foundation you need to get out there and build a house(all mountain skiing) because all though you can live in a structural foundation, who would want to?
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post #133 of 323
3/12/07 at 10:21am
Nice post PhilT,

Some people can't get the foundation built. They just don't have the 'material' to work with, they assume that there are elite racers and instructors and then everyone else is like them...terminal intermediate. That is where all of the discussion about 'what ski do I buy to make ____ turns'. Guess what, you can't 'buy' natural ability. True elite level all mountain skiing is about natural athleticism, Scot Schmidt and Doug Coombs trained hard to develop their level of skill, but the training wasn't learning to park and ride on a SL ski. It was playing in the mountains, on terrain that made them look at snow a little different than everyone else.

They both took skiing to new levels by ignoring what was 'good skiing' in a PSIA manual and found techniques that worked for their individual body morphology and the needs of the terrain they were skiing. They progressed.

Following a 'coach' around all season isn't going to progress anything, it will produce stale, robotic skiing. Skiing that always resembles a series of individual poses...it makes me gag when I see it. I see it a lot.
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post #134 of 323
3/12/07 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
HS-

Dude, I hate to tell you this....

You must be either losing your audience or your shock value, because you have only scored almost 4 pages in 36 hrs....

We had people in the pool betting you would have 8 full pages in 24 hrs... You are letting them down!

C'mon man! We are counting on you to pull through for the 48 hr pool!!!

You did much better last time. Now your odds are dropping!

But you are the ODDEST!

Hey no fair pumping up posts....oh crap, I just helped!:
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post #135 of 323
3/12/07 at 10:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post
As I said before you're a good example. All you're doing with your "actual skiing" is ingraining the same poor movement patterns deeper into your muscle memory. All skiers that are serious about improving or even just tweaking up theri skills at the start of a season run through drills no matter what their methodology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
Thank you volklskier. 15 years of the same bad turns is entirely possible, in fact common. Improvement requires some fairly unpleasant work, getting worse for a spell, followed by a positive change in technique.

If all you do is have fun bashing through the woods it just won't happen. All depends on what you want out of the sport.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
I think somewhere along this line of thought, we get into the question of What is good skiing. Is good skiing = having good form? who decides good form? are there differences of opinions on this? Is good skiing = getting down the race course the fastest or getting down the mountain the fastest? Highwaystar may lack the precision on groomed runs (or all over the mountain) but he has a set of skills that allow him to get down more of the mountain than someone who has a lot of good technical skills but no real world applications.

I, personally, am a firm beliver in the thought that you can't build a house with out a solid foundation. But as you get better and better the rate at which you improve on that metaphorical foundation slows down exponentially. And while you can keep producing a supersolid foundation you need to get out there and build a house(all mountain skiing) because all though you can live in a structural foundation, who would want to?
: ....ROFL....you guys are really funny....obviously not getting it.

Let me explain something to you folks who just don't seem to get it. In ~15 years of being an expert, I've learned the important things that PSIA, PMTS and whomever else has to teach about skiing....the fundimental parts which they all have in common. I've learned it from some reading, learning from others, and watching other people ski. I know what good skiing is in the opinion of the PSIA.....and I take their opinion with a grain of salt, because I've gone further and learned more....

I can adapt to virtually any ski technique within a matter of minutes, because at some point over the years, I've probably already done it, or something close. I have no specific ingrained technique that I stick to, and will change techniques at will throughout a ski run......I constantly pull different techniques out my backgorund, and mix up my skiing. It's called having experience. I will often disregard what others would say is "good technique", and purposely ski with "bad technique", because quite often "bad technique" can be used in an unusual situation to result in great skiing.

I you think working on drills on a groomed slope will make you a better skier, you are sadly mistaken. It won't. It will teach to you make one type of turn with high degree of precision, on groomed trails.....that's not good skiing. The only real way become a good/great skier, is to practice skiing challenging terrain/snow agressively.....period.

For volklskier to say I have 15 years of flawed ingrained techique is downright absurd, and shows his ignorance. For someone to be enough of a volkl fanboy to use it in their name says alot - volkls are the most overrated ski on the market.....number one choice of posers everywhere.
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post #136 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:00am
Do I sense another call out?
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post #137 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Do I sense another call out?
Lol....maybe.
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post #138 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:23am
Thread Starter 
volklskier1: Why Aren't You Answering This Callout?????

The record clearly shows that volklskier1 is an advocate of the PMTS system, and also lives in the Northeast...NJ, perhaps? He seems to know how to find is way up to vermont. He questions my ablity, and thinks he knows better....

VOLKLSKIER1, I'M CALLING YOU OUT FOR A SKI OFF!!!!!!

PUT UP OR SHUT UP, BEYOTCH!!!!!
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post #139 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:32am
HS,

I think you are the only one that shares your opinion of your skiing. Maybe you should post some video of your expert skiing. The videos you have posted to date, do not indicate expert skiing. Athletic skiing, but not expert.

You are also overestimating your ability by calling out Harb. He could obviously destroy you in any ski off.
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post #140 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:51am
Phil T really hit a home run with his foundation comments. Skiing can't be pigeon holed into one category or genre(spelling). On the other hand who's to say which camp is more skilled? Skiing perfect turns on groomed snow certainly requires high level skills. Being able to ski ungroomed , off piste, what ever the mountain throws at you terrain with skill and grace is at least as much of an accomplishment. But they are two different styles of skiing that really doesn't allow you to elevate the competency of one group over the other. I read a couple of years ago a comment that Marc Girandelli made that when ever he encountered a ski run with moguls he would either take a trail that would circumvent the bumps or he would take off his skis and walk down the mogul portion. A little extreme I think, but he's one of the best ski racers of all time. At the end of the day HH vs HS would become an apples and oranges comparison. Their respective skiing represents two very different things.
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post #141 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fischermh View Post
HS,

I think you are the only one that shares your opinion of your skiing. Maybe you should post some video of your expert skiing. The videos you have posted to date, do not indicate expert skiing. Athletic skiing, but not expert.

You are also overestimating your ability by calling out Harb. He could obviously destroy you in any ski off.
Riiiiight.......I don't need people on the internet to tell me I'm an expert. What do you think I've been doing for the last 15 years, skiing by myself??? I've meet hundreds of people who've seen me ski in person, and they tend to think that I'm a strong expert, without any prompting from me. Including industry people, coaches, pros and experts.

I've submitted videos with unusual skiing, technique which falls far beyond what PSIA or PMTS would promote, with intentional flaws, experimental technique, and some of my normal minor sloppy technical aspects. Since I'm the expert and I'm the one making it up, it is, by definition, expert level skiing.....period. As an expert, I am allowed to disregard PMTS or PSIA rules, and make up my own. Again, my infamous tail turn...care to tell me what's "wrong" with it??











Let's see.....I'm turning, on bent tails in soft, sticky, manky snow - not skidding or carving. I've found my balance point for my speed in the very sticky snow, which is far back on the last 2 feet of tail. My upper body is in a powerful neutral position. The turn is a rapid direction change, at high speed, at high edge angle, with tons of angulation, riding both skis. All this as part of a manditory line to dodge rocks and shrubbery at a relatively high speed for the terrain and snow. A split second after I complete this turn, I slam into a 2 foot high water bar at ~30 mph.

Oh....I'm in the backseat!!!! OMG!!!! Whatever.....anybody who says that, doesn't get it.

This isn't good skiing people.....it's brilliant, revolutionary expert level skiing that most people can't even understand, seemingly, even here on an instructors forum.

As for me vs. the Harbl.......as I said before, I bet I could keep up with him pretty well making carves on the groomed....maybe not perfect, but maybe 97%? Would he be able to keep up with me in steeps, trees, thin cover and chutes..........which is where experts typically ski???? I doubt it!!!!
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post #142 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:58am
Did it ever cross your mind, HS, that maybe volklskier1 simply doesn't give a rats ass about what some guy on the internet has to say? I sure don't, HH sure as hell doesn't, and I'm sure volklskier1 doesn't either.
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post #143 of 323
3/12/07 at 11:59am
The real throwdown.....


HS's ego vs HH's ego....



HS's won't let it go...

and

HH's won't give it up!


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post #144 of 323
3/12/07 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rv3 View Post
Did it ever cross your mind, HS, that maybe volklskier1 simply doesn't give a rats ass about what some guy on the internet has to say? I sure don't, HH sure as hell doesn't, and I'm sure volklskier1 doesn't either.
Absurd.

He obvious does enough to keep posting in all the PMTS threads, including this one.

The Harbl obviously cares enough to send inflamitory letters to us, and run his message board to attack the PSIA. By that token, he should give a rats ass about all the negative publicity his method is getting.

Obviously, enough people care to read and post in this thread.
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post #145 of 323
3/12/07 at 12:16pm
My lady thou dost protest too much. You obviously care what people on the internet say, otherwise you would not go to the lengths you do to tell us your are a great skier.

If you are a brilliant revolutionary expert skier, why aren't you famous? Seems to me you should be a WC racer, or a demo team member, or in movies or ...

Many of us when we were younger had your revolutionary technique. It is called athleticism. From what I have seen, you are not all that special.

BTW, HH could not care less about you. He would have to see you as a challenge, and you have displayed nothing that would indicate that you are a challenge. Well I take that back, maybe in an ego and pride contest, you would be a challenge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Star View Post
Riiiiight.......I don't need people on the internet to tell me I'm an expert. What do you think I've been doing for the last 15 years, skiing by myself??? I've meet hundreds of people who've seen me ski in person, and they tend to think that I'm a strong expert, without any prompting from me. Including industry people, coaches, pros and experts.

I've submitted videos with unusual skiing, technique which falls far beyond what PSIA or PMTS would promote, with intentional flaws, experimental technique, and some of my normal minor sloppy technical aspects. Since I'm the expert and I'm the one making it up, it is, by definition, expert level skiing.....period. As an expert, I am allowed to disregard PMTS or PSIA rules, and make up my own. Again, my infamous tail turn...care to tell me what's "wrong" with it??











Let's see.....I'm turning, on a bent tail in soft snow - not skidding or carving. I've found my balance point for my speed the very sticky snow, which is far back, on the last 2 feet of trail. My upper body is in a powerful neutral position. I make a rapid direction change, at high speed, at high edge angle, with tons of angulation, riding both skis. All this as part of a manditory line to dodge rocks and shrubbery at a high relative speed. A split second after I complete this turn, I slam into a 2 foot high water bar at ~30 mph.

Oh....I'm in the backseat!!!! OMG!!!! Whatever.....anybody who says that, doesn't get it.

This isn't good skiing people.....it's brilliant, revolutionary expert level skiing that most people can't even understand, seemingly, even here on an instructors forum.

As for me vs. the Harbl.......as I said before, I bet I could keep up with him pretty well making carves on the groomed....maybe not perfect, but maybe 97%? Would he be able to keep up with me in steeps, trees, thin cover and chutes..........which is where experts typically ski???? I doubt it!!!!
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post #146 of 323
3/12/07 at 12:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fischermh View Post
My lady thou dost protest too much. You obviously care what people on the internet say, otherwise you would not go to the lengths you do to tell us your are a great skier.

If you are a brilliant revolutionary expert skier, why aren't you famous? Seems to me you should be a WC racer, or a demo team member, or in movies or ...

Many of us when we were younger had your revolutionary technique. It is called athleticism. From what I have seen, you are not all that special.

BTW, HH could not care less about you. He would have to see you as a challenge, and you have displayed nothing that would indicate that you are a challenge. Well I take that back, maybe in an ego and pride contest, you would be a challenge.
lol........you obviously don't get it......have fun carving it up in OHIO!!!!!!

In case you forgot who you're talking to, I am pretty famous....everyone here knows who I am. ROFL.

As for what is revolutionary technique........well, I bet most of the people here, including the instructors, could not make that turn and wouldn't even know where to start. Athletics has nothing to do with it. If put on that trail, on that day, with that snow, at that speed, most people would promptly do a face plant or tomahawk into a rock.
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post #147 of 323
3/12/07 at 12:42pm
Ohio skiing is better than no skiing.

Talk about lol and rofl and abcd and xyz. Technique, scmechnique. Can't wait to see you on TV, or maybe you should start a new system.

BTW, I really wouldn't want the fame that you have garnered here or over on TGR.
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post #148 of 323
3/12/07 at 12:45pm
Is there an echo in here?
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post #149 of 323
3/12/07 at 12:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post
Is there an echo in here?
Hey man, to keep one of these train wrecks moving, I have to keep posting crap in it, ok???????
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post #150 of 323
3/12/07 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fischermh View Post
Ohio skiing is better than no skiing.
But not by much...
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