EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › 'Bouncing' through a turn? (Is this a user error, or not?)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

'Bouncing' through a turn? (Is this a user error, or not?)

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I want to avoid developing any more bad habits than necessary; but I'm not sure if this is something caused by an error on my part or not, and maybe isn't an error at all. It feels fine, but what I read here leads me to believe it could be 'wrong' because my skis are leaving the ground (maybe not getting a strong enough edge?)

Sometimes when I'm traveling faster down a relatively steeper (not sure at all what you'd call it in degree; say, something like East Fall @ Killington for reference) i find myself leaving the ground unintentionally mid turn (as in, while my skis are pointed across the slope.) Not a big deal, I recover just fine; but I was wondering what the cause is, mostly in case i need to stave off a bad habit that this is an indicator of (or maybe it's just normal and I can continue not worry about it - and actually it's kind of fun)

At first I figured I was hitting a bump or ripple in the terrain or something when this happened, and it actually felt pretty cool so I didn't worry about it. But now I'm wondering if it means I'm not getting enough bite from my edges? Is this an answerable question; or not without seeing what is really happening? It feels like my feet are momentarily fallng sideways, until i can bite in again & keep going. it doesn't really throw my feeling of balance off at all, though, the trajectory stays the same.

I'm trying to make my movements less defensive on steeper stuff; and made some progress in that regard this weekend; which is what got me wondering if this is an error I ought to be correcting as well, or not. I had been letting myself get sort of stuck at the bottom of the turn too long and dragged across the hill - I found that straightening a bit before trying to change my edge helped. (Hopefully that isn't wrong!) I thought the "bump" could be coming in when i let myself get too locked in & tensed up while heading across; but it happened without that as well, so either it is seperate; or hasn't got so much to do with me, as just being a product of whatever i skied over @ that moment.

Thanks, in advance!
post #2 of 21
Good question... I have a similar issue, but it's more in mid-turn when skis are facing diagonally down the hill, right before I change edges..., and it's not just one 'release', it's multiple repeatedly... feels like my skis are trying to skid, but are on edge and have a mroe forceful release then grab as soon as they hit the snow again...

Could be a similar issue....
post #3 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post
Good question... I have a similar issue, but it's more in mid-turn when skis are facing diagonally down the hill, right before I change edges..., and it's not just one 'release', it's multiple repeatedly... feels like my skis are trying to skid, but are on edge and have a mroe forceful release then grab as soon as they hit the snow again...

Could be a similar issue....
Sounds like you're describing "chatter", where the ski edges are grabbing and then letting go and grabbing and letting go and... Very disconcerting. It was discussed recently here. SkiMonster's issue sounds somewhat different.
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
I think it MIGHT be similar; but I usually have it happen 1 or 2 times - it is when the skis are across the hill, though, if I was unclear. I wasn't sure how to describe it. "Chatter" to me sounds more like a series of quick vibrations, which I've experience in different circumstances; but this is a bit different, more powerful & isolated or something. is this what was meant, there, as "chatter?" This is both skis, in unison, though.
post #5 of 21
What you are feeling are the skis retuning to their natural shape and leaving the Snow periodically. I use to like doing it and still do sometimes. Nothing wrong with it. It's playful. Like a Deer bounding in the woods. Sometimes the ski or skis will flex/vibrate while in mid air. That's were a good binding can be appreciated.
post #6 of 21
Sounds to me like a typical skidded turn.
post #7 of 21
It sounds like rebound, and is something you can harness to make energetic transitions into the next turn by using retraction and an crossunder move. Unfortunately, I'm just not qualified to describe or teach it. : I can get the same rebound in powder or hard pack and it takes pretty good control of your skis to create the rebound at the same instant you intend to change edges.
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMonster View Post
I think it MIGHT be similar; but I usually have it happen 1 or 2 times - it is when the skis are across the hill, though, if I was unclear. I wasn't sure how to describe it. "Chatter" to me sounds more like a series of quick vibrations, which I've experience in different circumstances; but this is a bit different, more powerful & isolated or something. is this what was meant, there, as "chatter?" This is both skis, in unison, though.
If the ski jumps out of it's track a couple times near the bottom of the turn, you've got chatter.
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
It sounds like rebound, and is something you can harness to make energetic transitions into the next turn by using retraction and an crossunder move. Unfortunately, I'm just not qualified to describe or teach it. : I can get the same rebound in powder or hard pack and it takes pretty good control of your skis to create the rebound at the same instant you intend to change edges.
Sounds like rebound to me too. Learn to control it.
post #10 of 21
SkiMonster:

If what you're experiencing doesn't feel like chatter as it's been described here, then I agree that you're probably getting "rebound". It happens when you put a substantial load on the skis and then release it abruptly.

If that's what you're doing, then I agree that there's nothing wrong with it.

Rebound can be controlled and it's actually a really fun way to ski once you get the hang of it. There are certain kinds of snow conditions where rebound turns are a very dynamic and powerful way to turn. And playful.
post #11 of 21
whether rebound launches you, or not, should be up to you. If IT has control of the ship, it's a flaw.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMonster View Post
I think it MIGHT be similar; but I usually have it happen 1 or 2 times - it is when the skis are across the hill, though, if I was unclear. I wasn't sure how to describe it. "Chatter" to me sounds more like a series of quick vibrations, which I've experience in different circumstances; but this is a bit different, more powerful & isolated or something. is this what was meant, there, as "chatter?" This is both skis, in unison, though.
Rebound happens ONCE.
post #13 of 21
FWIW, I get that when I'm skidding turns on steep terrain. The skis bounce on the snow. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but you may be.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Rebound happens ONCE.
Yes. Once per turn, at the end of it.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Rebound happens ONCE.
Rarely a ski(s) will continue to flex/vibrate actively in mid-air after rebound.
post #16 of 21
A ski has a maximum amount of flex to it. when it reaches it limit it straightens out then
grabs again. You then get the bouncing or jumping feeling of the ski. It can be stopped
by either starting the next turn sooner or putting less pressure on the ski through the turn.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
I've experienced chatter, as BigE describes it, on occasion in icier conditions; I definitely have done my share of skidding, which reading here is helping me recognize & I am working at reducing; but this isn't that; I can usually tell if I'm skidding & I wouldn't arbitrarily rule it out because I'm certainly no expert.

The time i noticed two bounces in a row, probably was a sort of skid; I think that was an instance where I bounced and got thrown off, one of the first times it happened; since i didn't know what was going on and sort of assumed i'd made some major error.

When this happens it is like a smooth arc, in the air mysteriously, back to the smooth motion - but in the same direction. If it is rebound, then I see how I could sort of pull up to make a quick switch and use it to my advantage; but it is probably an error for ME in that it's happening BEFORE I've started changing directions (or maybe that means it is something else) and I'm not doing it on purpose. I'll see what I can find here to read, there is a lot to find!

I DO also sometimes get the bouncy skid i think jonnythan is referring to, and as I said am trying to learn better ways of doing things; and this feels different to me. If it was a sort of skid, would that mean I am not holding my edge strongly enough? I could see it sort of as my edges are popping out on me, if that makes any sense.

Thank you!
post #18 of 21
A ski has a maximum amount of flex to it. when it reaches it's limit it straightens out then
grabs again. You then get the bouncing or jumping feeling of the ski. It can be stopped
by either starting the next turn sooner or putting less pressure on the ski through the turn.
post #19 of 21
"Bouncing through a turn" is what I'd call chatter. It's different than "being propelled up and across the hill" which is what I would call rebound.

Imagine the beginning of chatter - the edge jumps from it's track. That can happen just once. It can happen twice in a row, or it can happen many times rapidly in succession. It's all still "chatter".
post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayCantu View Post
A ski has a maximum amount of flex to it. when it reaches it limit it straightens out then
grabs again. You then get the bouncing or jumping feeling of the ski. It can be stopped
by either starting the next turn sooner or putting less pressure on the ski through the turn.
So; in effect, I am waiting too long to turn? That seems like a plausible explanation.

It makes sense, because I am only now getting more comfortable on steeper trails & at higher speeds, and I would not at all deny that I occasionally wait to long to turn when i get going faster because I momentarily doubt myself or whatever. So; does that pretty much just mean that when I'm at the end of a turn with all that pressure on my skis, I am letting it build up too long and should be turning sooner?

re: chatter - I understand the differences better now; thank you; I will try to be aware of that too so I can grasp what's happening to me better.
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMonster View Post
So; in effect, I am waiting too long to turn?
Yes. You are holding onto the curent turn too long. It's up to you to figure out how to create the direction change you want without pushing so much against gravity.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › 'Bouncing' through a turn? (Is this a user error, or not?)