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Impressions on the new "gadget" skis???

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Saw in the new Skiing mag yesterday that the new Rossi Zenith Mutix for '08 has what seems to be harder and softer arms Vs. this year's long and short arms.

Also, they showed the Volkl Tigershark with adjustable stiffness.

So, who is buying into the gadgetry as opposed to all of the already great skis out there now?
post #2 of 28
Maybe the same types of people who bought into metal and fiberglass skis when they first came out. I know my grandfather had nothing but contempt for my "plastic boots".

- as for the Radical, there's a concept there. Not sure if it will stand the test of time, or maybe morph into something else? Basically it's a user-enabled way of playing with the ski on top like the engineers do underneath.
post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
I have no problem w/new tech. Just not sure how well either will work.

Have seen a few reviews of this year's Mutix and they haven't been overwhelming. Just seems if they are changing the rods already, then maybe they are having problems with them or just don't work as advertised.

That being said, someone will come up with a practical way to have a true do-all ski - someday.
post #4 of 28
they had to do something to mutix as most of them are still on the walls of the shops that bought them this year....
you have to give rossi credit, they came out with something that may have worked for most people (hard pack skiers any ways) they just didn't market correctly...compared to another company that comes out with something "new" about every two seasons that doesn't do anything but markets it well and the unwashed masses eat it up....
post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Very few shops are able to sell them, yet those few shops still have them on their racks...
post #6 of 28
Mutix owners are the new skiboarders.
post #7 of 28
I preferred the old Fritzmeyer Duo's a ski that you just added weights to make it ski longer.
post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman View Post
they had to do something to mutix as most of them are still on the walls of the shops that bought them this year....
you have to give rossi credit, they came out with something that may have worked for most people (hard pack skiers any ways) they just didn't market correctly...compared to another company that comes out with something "new" about every two seasons that doesn't do anything but markets it well and the unwashed masses eat it up....
Being a hardpack skier for the time being, I have to say it is the hardack skiers who have a problem with the design. They claim to give a longer turn radius without increasing the sidecut. You cannot carve a turn on hardpack that is greater than the sidecut radius. It's simple geometry. I can see the arms stiffening the ski, but not changing the turn radius on hardpack.
post #9 of 28
"You cannot carve a turn on hardpack that is greater than the sidecut radius"
yes, i can, the sidecut radius is a number based on a flat unflexed ski using a mathematical formula.
almost anyone capable of carving a turn can change the radius of any ski depending on the force/angle of attack/speed that are being imparted against the ski
post #10 of 28
I think the jury is still out on the Mutix concept. Time will tell. Meanwhile the idea may morph into something else that works better.
Do any Bears out there have the Mutix and if so what are your impressions?
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman View Post
"You cannot carve a turn on hardpack that is greater than the sidecut radius"
yes, i can, the sidecut radius is a number based on a flat unflexed ski using a mathematical formula.
almost anyone capable of carving a turn can change the radius of any ski depending on the force/angle of attack/speed that are being imparted against the ski

You can make a shorter turn by flexing the ski. How do you make one that is longer than the sidecut radius?
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robscapes View Post
I think the jury is still out on the Mutix concept. Time will tell. Meanwhile the idea may morph into something else that works better.
With regard to the mutix Radical (this year's sorta kinda racy version), I agree. I didn't carry it and I didn't miss anything.

However, the '08 Z-11 mutix is something different. This ski actually works and works well. In this case, the arms are the same length. One set being Ti reinforced the other loaded with visceo material. In either case, the ski is nimble and user friendly. But the Ti arms make the ski pretty grippy at the extremeties while the visceo version really smooths it out. Whether this ski will gain consumer acceptance is hard to say but for the purpose intended, it is a better ski than the Z-9.

SJ
post #13 of 28
Ghost hit it on the head. It's about flex. Racers search the race room for their preferred flex pattern. With a wider variety of calibrated arms, anyone can tailor a ski to their preferred flex pattern with the mutix concept. Like customizing boot fit/flex to preference, the arms are similar for a ski. Width and side cut don't change (that would be some feat, eh?) but a stiffer flex does require more input to get the same on-snow arc out of a ski, and therefore can influence the arc produced by de-cambering.

I haven't skied them (yet), but did a race clinic with Doug Daniels at Mt. Snow last year just after Rossi comp’ed him a pair. He said they skied "OK", but they weren't a high-energy race ski. They were a little squirrelly at speed in the GS gates, but he switched to the longer arms for the timed event and won his age group. So they couldn’t have been all that bad.

I think the price point is too high, and the flex options too limited, for the market. Besides, race-inspired skis aren’t cool – everyone wants to be an “off-pister”. Need the option for more than just “race” skis. This isn’t one-ski Holy Grail technology, but it could be a way to dial in a ski the way you really like it.
post #14 of 28
I love useless crap on skis. I can't wait 'til K2 brings back the little blinking light. It'll be a happy day for me when every ski manufacturer starts putting hood ornaments on thier skis! How about big coil springs and oil dampening resevoirs like on DH bikes?
post #15 of 28
I like the idea of being able to switch the stiffness of the ski, even if it doesn't change the radius. It changes the speed at which you can best carve a given turn. It's like being able to go to the car or rack and switch between a WC SC and an RX8, only not as easy as simply clicking into and out of the bindings and easier to travel with.
I think the marketing guys are off. They should sell it as Jeckel/Hide, attack/relax, hardsnow/softsnow or high speed/low (edit: there is a connection between speed and radius, but let's not complicate things) speed ski.
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by medmarkco View Post
Maybe the same types of people who bought into metal and fiberglass skis when they first came out. I know my grandfather had nothing but contempt for my "plastic boots".
Yeah, and my dad's Rosemount fiberglass boots with removeable padding pockets surely stood the test of time, as a matter of fact, they are likely still sitting in his basement defying the ravages of dust build up!
post #17 of 28
I just skied the Rossi R11's (with long arms) for a week in the Alps because my RX8s still hadn't arrived from Germany. They had only been taken out of the shop for a week previously and were in top shape. They were fun, snappy and held an edge well. On the other hand, they are a heavy option for high-end recreation skis (nigh on impossible to float in powder on anything under a 30 degree pitch) and are not as assured at race speeds as the atomics or dynastar course. Maybe Rossignol will nail it in '08. Oh yeah...half the time they don't fit into the gondola slots.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I love useless crap on skis. I can't wait 'til K2 brings back the little blinking light. It'll be a happy day for me when every ski manufacturer starts putting hood ornaments on thier skis! How about big coil springs and oil dampening resevoirs like on DH bikes?
I agree. Oil dampening reservoirs on DH bikes is a pretty worthless idea. Bring back the hard tails.

Some people like to tinker and others are content to live with what they're given.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by volantaddict View Post
Yeah, and my dad's Rosemount fiberglass boots with removeable padding pockets surely stood the test of time, as a matter of fact, they are likely still sitting in his basement defying the ravages of dust build up!
Most everything else from the 60's/70's is also gathering dust. Rosemounts were a hot item in their day. Opened the door to many different ideas about ski boot construction. Frank Werner and Bunny Bass were never ones to "let things be".
post #20 of 28
Fog lights Dammit! I want fog lights!
post #21 of 28
How about a little umbrella to stave off the rain?
post #22 of 28
mdf, how can you not? think about it....have you ever skied straight or just put the ski on edge to stop a "shaped ski" from wandering when ridden flat?
just because a ski has a natural turning radius of x meters doesn't mean you are limited to that radius (except for maybe the Elan SCX...)....
besides watching people from the chair most skiers haven't figured out carving no matter what they are on....
post #23 of 28
waxman -
When you give the example of very slight edging to stop flat-ski wander, it make me think you might be right. I am still puzzled about how that is possible, though. Maybe only part of the edge is engaging?
post #24 of 28
If you are carving in the sense of arcing, your ski is following a path that along the edge. The sidecut radius is to within a good approximation the radius of that path when the ski is flat. The actual path on the snow depends on the tipping angle of the ski, sidecut radius times cosine of the tiping angle. You probably want some tipping angle to keep the edges engaged. A 17m radius is a lot longer than most people think, but it is not that long that you some people don't want to carve longer turns. They can "carve" longer turns, but it is not ure arc-to-arc skiing. A carved 30 m turn on a 13 m ski is not what a lot of people would call carved, and it doesn't feel nearly as good as it does on a 70 m ski. It is really a scarved turn, with a lot of sideways to the edge motion at the ti and tail.
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I love useless crap on skis. I can't wait 'til K2 brings back the little blinking light. It'll be a happy day for me when every ski manufacturer starts putting hood ornaments on thier skis! How about big coil springs and oil dampening resevoirs like on DH bikes?
You joke, but Head's Intelligence chip system (and just the regular fibers in most of their skis) is the same basic idea as the K2 blinkin' light thing (anyone remember what it was called?). Maybe we should get Bob to call up his Head rep and suggest they add a light back in for the '09 skis
post #26 of 28
i remember it was a piezo electric circuit taken from the military somewhere...
post #27 of 28
The one thing that I did like was the Salomon Pro-Pulse binding, it was the only binding I recall that really made a ski feel different
post #28 of 28
I have Marker EPS M42 bindings with a selector for hard, neutral and soft ski conditions which I thought was a great innovation at the time. can;t tell if it actually works though.
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