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Bumps to groomers.

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
When I was skiing the other day I notced that at the end of a very bumped run it took a concious effort to get back into the carving on the groomers.

Anybody else have difficulty going from the pivoty-sliddy, more centered, and lots of knee extension/absorbion skiing in bumps to the driving forward shin's pressured more "gentle" skiing on groomers?
post #2 of 18
Hmmm, not me Phil. I use the same technique for bumps as I do for carving. The DIRT is different but the movement patterns are not. I go right from the bumps to carving in one turn.
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
sorry, DIRT???
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
sorry, DIRT???
Duration, Intensity, Radius and Timing.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Okay, but what about the surface of the ski you are on? in bumps you are mainly on the flats of of your skis with out any real "radius" to your turns. on the groomers you are on your edges throughout most of the turn and the radius is clearly visable? I can smoothly tranistion from bumps to carves but it feels, i dont know, wierd?
post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
Okay, but what about the surface of the ski you are on? in bumps you are mainly on the flats of of your skis with out any real "radius" to your turns. on the groomers you are on your edges throughout most of the turn and the radius is clearly visable? I can smoothly tranistion from bumps to carves but it feels, i dont know, wierd?
But there is a real radius to my turns when I am on a flat ski. The transition to me feels seemless and smooth without a break in rhythm.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
But there is a real radius to my turns when I am on a flat ski. The transition to me feels seemless and smooth without a break in rhythm.
okay so in response to the original question, not you. 'kay noted. anyone else?

and just for conversations sake how is their a radius when you are on a flat ski. Dead straight doesnt count...
edit: infact how is their even a turn when you are on a flat ski?
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
okay so in response to the original question, not you. 'kay noted. anyone else?

and just for conversations sake how is thier a radius when you are on a flat ski. Dead straight doesnt count...
But you said bumps not straight run and there is a definite round radius there. I am going to take a few things you have said to another thread as I was working on this very thing today and was tuned into what was happening.
post #9 of 18
Hi PhilT,

No problems going back and forth for me either. There is much the same as Pierre mentions. Personally, I'm trying to not do that shins pressured thing in either (any) condition.

I've more commonly heard DIRT as an acronym for:
-Duration
-Intensity
-Rate
-Timing

Even if you aren't (or don't feel you are) bending the skis into an arc, do you feel your feet are moving in an arc under you from turn to turn? Or do you feel that your feet are moving straight down the fall-line while you pivot the flat drifting skis?
post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
I am bending the skis into an arc when I am carving on groomers. When I am skiing bumps (something I despise doing but can do well) I am skiing in a more or less straight line, "wiggling" to fit through them on the sides of the bumps, not in the troughs, and absorbing each incoming bump with my knees and then flexing down on the otherside of it.
post #11 of 18
It would seem if you and your feet are going more or less in a straight line, then there more or less is no radius!
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Okay anybody elese? the main thing I am feeling is that I am more centered farther back when I am skiing bumps and it feels weird going on to groomers because I have to change my balance, its not really a problem for me just an observation. Anybody else experience this or have any ideas on a good way to shift balance other than just practice?
post #13 of 18
That makes sense to me, Phil.

"centered farther back" I can see that!

I see it as the difference between trying to go and trying to not go. In bumps you're skiing with the brakes on and you have to hold yourself back to balance against the ski that is in front of you and slowing you down. On the groomers, you're GOING - and your skis are too - so you better GO with (and often in front of) the skis or be left balancing on your but when they leave!

Ever ski into untracked snow off the edge of a groomer, or a pile of loose snow? Doesn't it feel like you have to "center farther back" (or push your feet forward) when your feet slow ?

Same feeling might occur as your feet/skis go up the front side of a mogul and slow down. You should be "centering farther forward" then on the backside (or pulling the feet back) though.

You can apply the GO in moguls too.
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Centeredfarther back was ment to be centered/farther back. As in centered stance and father back as in not driving the skis like I do on groomers. I am not tail gunning my skis, trust me I know what that feels like. When I go through untracked snow on the edge of a groomer my stance remanins the same and I ski it in an almost identical maner as I do on any non bumped/super deep conditions. The change I am feeling in the bumps is not shin pressure leaving the front of the boot but instead being more centered over the ski as a "charging" or "driving forward" stance doesnot work as well for the rapid extension and retraction of my knees.
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
actually thinking back on it maybe what I am feeling transitioning from bumps to groomers is not a "stance change" at all but merely the change in the way my legs have to work...hmmm....
post #16 of 18
I wasn't suggesting you were in the back seat, Phil.

Simply that as friction underfoot changes you will have to move fore/aft to some degree (likely not visible to a viewer in many cases) in order to maintain the resultant pressure point centered under foot.
post #17 of 18
I noticed that after practicing bump skiing, it's harder to carve tight turns on ice. Well that's my excuse anyway.
post #18 of 18
I too feel that changing from bumps to carving takes some adjustments. For me its not really that big of an issue since I like Pierre ski bumps the same way I ski gromers and powder but for guys like you slamming yourselfe down the zipperline the change is much greater. The trick is to identify and isolate the movements in each condition and look for similaities. For example, you might be skidding in bumps but your flexing and extending in bumps could very well be incorporated into modern cross under carving technique.

One very important note that Pierre made was that just because you are skidding does not mean that there would be no radius to it. You can skidd turns so evenly that it looks like carving from a distance. Bad skidding on groomers (and impossible in powder) I consider wind-shield-wiper-turns but in zipper line bump skiing such turning is common. People that hate bumps or powder usually do it because they cannot ski in such conditions. This all reins in bad primarily movement patterns. If you can ski correctly you can ski all over the mountain regarding of conditions. Switching from bumps to carving should not cause any problem. The similarities between bump and powder skiing can be felt when you ski in powder on bumps. Upper level skiing is versatility.
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