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post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I just came back from my CPR recertification. Fitness instructors have to keep current. I was curious as to whether ski instructors were required to have CPR certification.

According to my instructor, they are gradually phasing out "manual" CPR, and trying to teach everyone to use the defibulator {sp?} All well and good, but if someone is a ski instructor, that would be one more thing to carry around. Unless they attached them to lift poles.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence

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[This message has been edited by Lisamarie (edited July 01, 2001).]</FONT><FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by Lisamarie (edited July 01, 2001).]</FONT>
post #2 of 23
In my ski school First aid/CPR training is not required but it is highly recommended. Classes are scheduled but we each have to pay our way.
post #3 of 23
Nope. Not required here. But then, our hills are so small that a patroller is never more than 1 minute away, since they just camp out at the top of the mountain, and it's only 960 vert.

But now that I have a baby, my wife and I got certified in infant CPR. Don't think it will help much on a ski hill though. Not a lot of infants skiing around.
post #4 of 23
It's for those parents that have decided they are good enough to ski all day with their infant straped to their back. Now there a darwin moment if I ever saw one!
I'm probably good enough to ski with a child on my back but I don't think I would want to take the chance of loosing it or injuring a child/toddler just so I can ski with them on my back. I might do so for one run to transport but that's about it.
post #5 of 23
The defib units are another tool used in conjunction with CPR. I see it as expanding your CPR skills instead of replacing them. We have 3 defib units on our mountain. One each at the Patrol Shacks up top and a third in the Main Aid Room.

At $3,000 per unit, they probably won't be too widespread. But then again, we have one in my office building, and on most commercial flights so they are spreading. I'd like to see them in more gyms. They are simple to use and effective.

BTW our ski instructors are not required to be CPR trained, but I expect many of them have been.


-DS-<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dirtsqueezer (edited June 26, 2001).]</FONT>
post #6 of 23

I know it sounds sick, but I may end up being one of those idiots. I want my daughter to experience the experience (can I say that?) of a little wind in the face and sliding down the hill, and that winter and snow are fun. Granted, if I do it, it will be only on the easiest of short beginner hills, and when there is no one else around (say, weekday morning, before we open, walk up the hill), and the snow is perfectly groomed.

That said, my senses may get the better of me and tell me that I'm a moron for even thinking about it, and I'll decide not to. It'll be one of those things that I'll need to decide when it comes around.
post #7 of 23

If you do decide to take your little one for a cruise, don't forget to tighten down those bindings to account for any extra weight.
post #8 of 23
Geez, mj, I wouldn't be taking her thrashing through crud bumps. I'd be making wedge turns on a trail that's about as steep as a airport runway. I think I'll leave the DINs where they are. But thanks for the thoughts. I know your intentions were good.
post #9 of 23
Notice I said all day...
I figured you might but also figured you would be wise enough to do it very carefully.
I took my friends kids on a very easy slope held them between my legs "seated" on my arm almost in my lap and easy wedge all the way down. They had the feeling of wind in face, this way close to the ground so not as scary and less distance to fall and me being positioned in a "low balanced wedge" there was very little chance of a fall. It's the ones who ride the chair all day with the "backpacking kid carriers" that make me wonder.
post #10 of 23
John H, I started my daughter skiing at 4. Before that I would sometimes ski with her between my legs or by just holding her for short runs in an uncrouded area. I never would do the backpack or chest carry bit with her. Although I am a good skier, there is the chance that I didn't clean all the snow my boots or that some rookie will take me out and I could fall on her. I wasn't willing to take that chance, and I don't think anyone would want to live with that kind of guilt if anything happened.
post #11 of 23
dchan, I've never seen anyone do that (backpack, riding the chair all day). That IS a bit out there, eh?

What you did, is along the lines of what I was thinking. ala Scot Schmidt in one the old Stump or Miller movies, with his kid in his arms, "flying" him over the snow.
post #12 of 23
I have seen guys doing the black diamonds with maybe a 1yr old kid in a kielty pack. Scarrrry. Can you say Darwin? Only problem is it's not the parent that would probably get hurt...
Common sense folks...
post #13 of 23
And those same guys would never think about putting the kid in a car without a car seat.
post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
I agree that the manual system should still be taught. But the reason the defibs are being used is actually a little frightening. It seems that the sucess rate of manual CPR on anyone over the age of 8 years old has been insignificant. The reason: People's hearts have become so messed up by bad diet and unhealthy lifestyles, that the manual technique is ineffective for many. If you look at what is considered food at a ski resort, it gets you thinking.

Another interesting change in the certification process. You no longer check for pulse. Why? It seems that so many people were inept at finding the pulse, that they were making incorrect judgement calls.

Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #15 of 23
Lisamarie -

Could you drop me a e-mail


I'm not sure if I'm following you on the use of AED's in conjunction with CPR. Would like to correspond a little more on this.


post #16 of 23
Lisamarie wrote "It seems that the sucess rate of manual CPR on anyone over the age of 8 years old has been insignificant."
The most significant factor in the success or failure of any kind of cpr is the amount of time that elapses between heart failure and onset of cpr. I don't have the numbers but people who have received immediate cpr have a much higher survival rate than those who have to wait, and the longer the wait the lower the survival rate.
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
One of the reasons I was curious as to whether ski instrutors needed to be CPR certified was for that reason, precisely.


Be Braver in your body, or your luck will leave you. DH Lawrence
post #18 of 23
I remember needing CPR/1st aid before taking the level II (Associate, at the time), exam. I do not think that is the case anymore.


I once witnessed an intermediate man faceplant in steep bumps and lose the infant in the backpack. The baby shot over 3 to 4 deep slushy ones before coming to a stop in an exceptionally deep trough. I was on the chair and lost sight of them quickly. I sped down to see if all was o.k. but they were gone. I often wondered if mom ever found out and if the guy survived with his life and nutsack intact.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro...
post #19 of 23
Different over here. For the BASI (British) instructor qualifications we're required to have a valid first-aid cert which covers CPR. Fortunately have never needed the CPR part yet, but there have been occasions when I've been very glad of other parts of the first aid training. Generally our training programs are run by the national patrollers organistation (or sometimes by the medical people who're involved with the mountain rescue teams), so they don't make too many assumptions about the equipment you'll have with you.
post #20 of 23
Just curious to know who was teaching you CPR? Red Cross, American Heart Association...
I just got done with my required annual CPR.. American Heart Association, Health Care Provider CPR. They are definatly NOT phasing out manual CPR but have incorporated AED training. AED's are becoming much more available in our society and save lives.
I am shocked to hear that they told you not to check for a pulse before performing CPR. That's just wrong. Did they tell you to not check for breathing before before giving rescue breaths?

Trust me on this. Check for a pulse before giving chest compressions. It's what the American Heart Association teaches.
post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
It was American Heart, and I agree, for personally, I would absolutely check for pulse. In checking with people who have taken AED training, you are correct, the manual method still taught. I guess the CPR instructor was stating her personal opinion without facts to back it up. Could be a bad thing if someone decides to quote you.

My city your mountain, stay with me, stay...
post #22 of 23
As stated in the other thread on CPR, the purpose of CPR is to keep the patient going until help arrives in the form a defib unit. Your chances of re-starting a stopped heart with CPR alone are almost non-existent. From what I've been told, you can have a big impact on the sucess of the paramedic team, IF you have reached the victim quickly and begin administering CPR immediately. I believe, in most cases, help doesn't come soon enough, so the paramedics don't have much of a chance to help. Overall, I believe only about 15 - 20% of people that have a heart attack outside of a medical facility survive.
post #23 of 23
The AHA recommends that only heath care professions feel for a carotid pulse prior to starting compressions. They recently (in 2000) revised their recommendations for lay rescuers so that they no longer should perform pulse checks. If a lay rescuer finds a patient not breathing, coughing, or moving after the first two breaths, he/she should start chest compressions.

This probably explains the discrepancy between what AK (who took Health Care Provider CPR) and Lisamarie were taught.

I think data are showing that early CPR AND early defibrillation are important. The buzzword (or buzzphrase?) now is "chain of survival" i.e. early CPR->early defibrillation->early ACLS. A study published in 1994 showed that the survival rate following witnessed ventricular fibrillation was only 5.3% in NYC and up to 33% in places like Seattle.

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