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A cool welcome for President Bush!

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
In the spirit of international friendship I'd like to warmly welcome President Bush to London today.
In the spirit of skiing - or sanity (the two are often mutually exclusive) - I'd urge Mr Bush to comply with the Kyoto agreement on carbon gas emissions so we can all reduce global warming.
Let's leave some snow for our kids to enjoy!
Maybe it's time, too, for the skiing industry to promote the use of fuel-efficient vehicles and activities. One target should be heli-skiing - a neat way to heat up the planet for the short-term benefit of a few rich people to enjoy the last remaining powder.
On that theme, it's high time there was an international agreement to tax aircraft fuel. At the moment no one pays the environmental cost of flying - a huge polluter!

David, London
post #2 of 55
He he he - He comes from an OIL family! Come on now! Never mind that an investment in new energy sources would create an entirely new economic boom - it wouldn't be an OIL economic boom, so he won't push for it. You guys need to just all just quit NATO and come take over - we've got it coming! (Tongue firmly in cheek)
post #3 of 55
Heliskiing. Yeah. Now there's a multi billion dollar industry that we should focus all of our attention on.


If you're going to go that route, let's ban all forms of motor sport racing. Those Motocross, speedboat, F1 and NASCAR engines aren't very fuel efficient. And hell, let's just ban all forms of motorsport recreation too. And driving on Sundays. Yeah, ban that!

Didn't you post the same thing a few months ago. Check the old threads, I'm sure it's there.
post #4 of 55
Thread Starter 
John H
You're absolutely right. I did raise this issue about 6 months ago, and I deeply apologise for raising it again.
Now you've mentioned it, yes, I do believe that we need to take a look at any indulgent human activity that wastefully burns fuel.
One way is for polluters to finance forests. One of our London airports is currently charging travellers the price of a tree when they hop on a plane!

David, London
post #5 of 55
If we could as a people stop eating so many hamburgers the third world countries might stop burning the forests to create grazing land for their cattle. also we might not need as much fuel to create electricity to power the Air conditioners that keep the cattle cool in all the barns set up to house so many cattle. Ah , that's it. ban beef!
post #6 of 55
Or, as I've stated before, let's just throw up a few random nukes to thin the world population and create a good nuclear winter. The snow might be grey, but it'll still slide

Maybe we could convince the world population of Beemer driving greed-aholics to give up every convenience in life and return to Amish ways. Of course, he'll have plenty of time to wash his clothes by hand every day, since, if he was a BMW exec, he'd be out of a job.

David G, first I insist you get all those cigarette loving Europeans to give up that nasty habit that fills the air with all sorts of crap.

Also, David G, since you are such a fanatic about this issue, what do you do (other than protest) to help the world's environment? I don't mean what don't you do, but what do you do? Are you in some sort of R&D field to help develop more efficient engines or means of generating power?<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by JohnH (edited July 18, 2001).]</FONT>
post #7 of 55
Yes, nuclear winter! I'm sick of hearing about fights in the Middle East - nuking them alone should throw up enough sand to bring back epic winters!

And having to wear a thin layer of lead while skiing - well, it'll just help me carry my momentum better!
post #8 of 55
Oakley's sales would skyrocket. Remember? - Thermonuclear protection.
post #9 of 55
so what's wrong with being a greed-aholic?
post #10 of 55
I advance that argument a lot actually.
post #11 of 55

I never said there was anything "wrong" with it. I just doubt you'd be the first in line to trade in your Beemer for a horse and buggy. I drive an 11 year old Honda Civic, which practically IS a horse and buggy, and I wouldn't be able to go without a car. Although I do ride my bike to work whenever I can (which will end in a couple of weeks, since I'm about to move to another building and won't be able to ride to work anymore )
post #12 of 55
Steve Martin figured out the answer to the population explosion back in the 70s

Death Penatly for Parking Violations

Face it. Were screwed. There are just too many people. The weight upon the resources is only going to grow.

Death Penatly for non-skiers! Then we could take all that money to figure out climate-control and always have skiing and surfing on the same day!
post #13 of 55
Oh my goodness gracious, y'all do not even understand how angry I get about this subject-----
Okay, so I don't live in a tree, granted, BUT although I have a vacation house on a lake, by a populaur ski resort I do not own:
~ any jetskis or motorboats (just saildboats & kyaks)
~ a snowmobile (just snowshoes)
~ a huge ass gosh darned suburban/escalde/excursion! My family owns a '96 4-runner, and I have to drive an '83 toyota cressida that looks like brown poop but gets almost 30 mpg

It just bothers me that peoples priorities now a days are so shallow... if everyone would just chill out, love eachother, and take thier kids skiiing everypne would be so much happier!, I mean, goodnesss gracious (I'm so very trying not to swear) when will the madness stop? when we all have to wear gas masks and use inhalers? geeez!

"When hell freezes over, I'll ski there too"
post #14 of 55
Actually, I'm not sure David is terribly radical in that there is a lot of disappointment in Bush's big oil way of doing things re: Kyoto. Didn't y'all hear about the protests in Gotenburg against Globalization? Shrub shrugged off a recent batch of protests as hurting the world's poor, as if we all should make them guinea pigs for GM products and all the wonderful ideas of global corporations. Yeah, Bill Gates is going to solve global poverty with Nike...yeah, that's the ticket.

Losing sovereignty as individuals or countries to corporations operating outside national regulations/rules is more of a problem than the overreaching fed. It's another form of imperialism but not restricted to the impoverished. Of course, W isn't going to tell you that.

Americans don't realize how much GM products are already on the dinner table, whereas over here it's a big deal as the long term consequences trouble many. Last year, farmers here mowed down thousands of acres of rape (as in from rapeseed) because some GM variety was inadvertantly mixed in with the unadulterated kind. Fears of Frankenstein science abound but in the US it is not regulated or revealed often where it exists, unless you're buying organic, I think.

The Seattle protests were also vastly underplayed in the States. Don't know about Canada. I was here when that happened.

Anyway, I'm waiting for the pie throwers to get Bush.


Dante non ha mai immaginato questo cerchio dell'inferno!

<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by lisakaz (edited July 18, 2001).]</FONT>
post #15 of 55

Maggie Thatcher chaired a conference a few years ago in Andover New Jersey..... the topic:

Promoting and increasing tobacco exports to third world countries.

Now there is a real human being.... Andover was chosen, according to the local press, because it's so out of the way that it wouldn't attract attention.
post #16 of 55
thought of this thread last night while watching the South Park episode on Earth Day. Global Warming is caused by Republicans!
post #17 of 55
How come nobody talks about mad cow disease making people sick if they eat an overpriced burger at a ski resort?
post #18 of 55
And don't forget, with advances in modern medicine, we'll all live to be 150 years old. And you think the population increse is bad now. Wait until people stop dying of natural causes!

I like the idea of the death penalty for anyone who can't earn a bronze in a NASTAR course and can't list 5 of the "your responsibilty code" items. Okay, maybe not the death penalty, but we could just force them all to live in Miami, LA and Long Island NY.
post #19 of 55
You can blame Bush for Kyoto if you want, but Congress had already refused to ratify it. All Bush has really done is broken the bad news and tried to get people to move on.
post #20 of 55
By the way, if Monsanto or Aventis or anybody else can make a genetically engineered crop that will grow in drough-stricken areas such as sub-saharan Africa, I'm all for it.
post #21 of 55
There is a stripe of the Tory party here who thinks like Maggie, of course. I'm just not sure how many people would actually admit to it, though, and how many of them there really are. These folks read the Times and think that the economy is always more imporant than the environment, forgetting that the well being of the latter has to exist for the former to thrive (else who's left to buy?).


Dante non ha mai immaginato questo cerchio dell'inferno!
post #22 of 55
Hey David G (as if you're still around!),

Check out the "off season" threads about the train from DIA to Summit county getting nixed.

You want something to fight for, go fight for that! That would help save a few tons of CO pollution.
post #23 of 55
Thread Starter 
Hi John H
Yes, I'm still here and kicking. I became a bit alarmed at how much hot air I'd released on this forum(not from my own keyboard of course) and its disastrous global warming impact..
P.S. Sorry about the railway. These are really important. What does "nixed" mean?
Over here in Europe most people arrive in ski resorts by car, but two of the world's greatest ski destinations - St Anton and Zermatt (Chamonix too) are readily accessible by train, and - to my mind - the experience enhances the holiday experience.

David, London
post #24 of 55
I expect no one, or at least very few to seriously consider this. The top scientists of the world have stated that while human activity may have a contributing factor to global warming it is impossible to say how much and deffinately can't point the finger at human activity (fossil fuels, etc.) as the cause. This has been reported, albeit very little air time compared to all the fear-mongers air time. Fear- that makes good copy! Actually we are or have been coming out of a mini ice age for the past few hundred years. It's time for the world to warm up, sadly. We tend to forget that US cars have far more restrictions on polution than cars made, bought and driven elsewhere in the world, but it's popular to always blame the US. Then the whinner claims we polute more than anyone else. Well, we have more carts than anyone else.
For the past 30 years we've been told the Brazilian rain forest disappears under the plow at the rate of 300 acres appx. per day. Do the math. At this rate the Brazilian rain forest should have been long gone by now. Moreover, it has been found that trees don't exchange as much CO2 to O2 as once thought. Don't argue with me, argue with the facts.
Am I for cutting down forests? No. Am I for polution? No. Let's just not gulp down everything we hear that fear-mongers try to feed us. In Oregon we have farmers with no water because we want to save sucker fish! Not salmon, not trout, but some stupid sucker fish. In California a farmer lost his land because he couldn't plow it. An endangered snail was found on his land. The government didn't restrict him, they restricted his tractor!
Keep a level head. Moderation in all things- Socrates. ... except skiing! Well, let's hear it. I'll be accused of being for poluting our world. I'm a smoker. I smoke when skiing and fishing. Where do I put the cig butts? ... in my pocket, never on the ground. Let's quit joyously eatnig what Rosencrantz and Gildenstern keep feeding us.
Gawd it's fun being unpolitically correct!

Life's a pain... then you nap. Cat philosphy
post #25 of 55

Yeah, what you said. There is much bogus information and bad science put out by the fear mongers on the subject of global warming and so-called greenhouse gases that is publicized in the media. Very little print and air time is devoted to the other side of the story. Kyoto? We can forget it. No other country has ratified it. Its just that no one wanted to be the first to come out against it. By the way, the "developing nations" would have been exempt from any restrictions imposed by Kyoto. They will likely be the largest future source of increases in greenhouse emissions. Kyoto was nothing more that political. Despite its enormous cost, it is unlikely that Kyoto would have had any appreciable impact on global temperatures and climate trends.
post #26 of 55
Well said! Someone might direct our attention to the committee on polution by the UN. Those on the committee get paid extra for their work, of course. Their rport was that humans are responsible for global warming. But of course! What report would you expect from that committee? If there were anyother report from them they'd be out of a job. Also, they were truly expected to come out with that report!
It has been found that grass does a dandy job of CO2 to O2 conversion, but I can't remember the figures. (That's grass you mow, not smoke, )
Now that my wife's web page is up I'm waiting for this next season. I will then post some pictures of me on how to properly hold a yard sale! i see all these fantastic photos of Todd M. going off cliffs, and Spyder going 200 mph around a turn (envy, envy! ), it's about high time to show the other side of skiing! I can crash and burn better than 98% of all skiers out there! Boy can I hold a yard sale! I think I'll start a new school- SM&YS. School of SitzMark & Yardsale, inc. Lessons are free; bring your own health insurance!

Life's a pain... then you nap. Cat philosphy
post #27 of 55
That is a fact that US people pollute more than any other on earth nowaday. That is not proven that human activity has an impact on global warming but the contrary is not proven as well. That is a fact that while this is not the first time that there is a global warming - or cooling - on earth, this is the very first time the climat changes so fast ( studies in Antartic on ice layers ).

That is a fact that in my owns mountains - Italian/French/Swiss Alps, the climat did change definitivly on 1981, less cold - less snow. People don't even know today how to drive on snow. Amazing.

ps. I have a doubt on that one : ...to forget that US cars have far more restrictions on polution than cars made, bought and driven elsewhere in the world -
Why do you say that ? compare with Germany?
Anyway. this is not the issue. Comparing to others countries, people in US is driving kind of trucks that eat lot of gas.
post #28 of 55
Actually, British scientists supposedly have studied some satellite photos from the early 70s versus now, according to activist/columnist Bianca Jagger, and are saying they are can chart effects of global warming, at least in terms of 30 years (however, I've heard that Oxbridge has done comparisons of leaf specimens from the 18th century or so). I do fully admit that the cliche call of "more research" usually means "let's not do anything," esp. if it appears inconvenient. (Of course, as an acadmic I'm more likely to be lobbying for more funding; that, of course, is not Bush's agenda any more than Big Oil & Gas.)

I've also heard the 25% pollution as the US, from 4% of the population of the world. Everytime I throw out something worthless (like run nylons; glad I don't buy them often) I marvel about how disposable society has become and how it keeps various people in business as they bank on a limited useability for a whole host of products that are no longer durable (women used to make and repair such things for family use, never buy off the rack).

I see it as part of the cult of growth, must always be expanding (the economy and such), and 2 percent isn't good enough any more. Well, in a finite planet with finite resources used for said growth, when is enough going to be too much? Sorry, having a Malthusian moment here which no GM Frankenstein science is going to resolve without much agita.


Dante non ha mai immaginato questo cerchio dell'inferno!
post #29 of 55
Wanted to say one thing about the role of developing countries in global warming. JimL said developing nations will represent the "largest future source of increases in greenhouse emissions." Absolutely true. This is going to be a big problem. The US, however, has spent the last century+ making its wealth by polluting the hell out of things. It seems to me that we are hugely hypocritical to deny developing nations the opportunity to lift themselves out of poverty by demanding that they bear the economic burden of not only industrialization, but eco-friendly industrialization. Kyoto doesn't forget about this problem, either. In fact, there are some points in the treaty that were designed BY THE US that allow countries to receive credits for supplying cleaner-emmissions technology to poorer countries. ironic that this kind of plan was meant to lessen the economic burden on the US--Bush's main argument against the whole treaty. (which, if you don't know, 178 countries agreed to just a couple days ago. not including the US)
post #30 of 55
Oh well, actually, even thought global warming would not be caused by human activity, this is pretty common sense to produce goods in the cleanest way, ok ?
Besides, this is modernity to do so, only modern countries have the knowledge and the power to have clean industries nowaday.
So on, what I think is that if USA want to follow the lobbies like Bush's one, mean oil lobby, for instance, hey, they could be late on such domains. There is some buziness to do on hydrogene engines, don't know, actually, on the 21th century, we allways use the same way to move from place to place than at the very beginning of the 20th century : explosion engine. Amazing ?

Many people is thinking "environment" in an extremist way : less production, no more expansion, no more electricity, no more car, etc. This is wrong. It's only about how to act in a cleaner way.

Wanna ask: recycling garbages is the rule more and more in Europe - I have myself 2 trash cans, one for organic, other for packages, guess it works this way in US too ? just asking.
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