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Why is Carving Better? - Page 2

post #31 of 52
It's got mad steeze, yo!
post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen_wv View Post
It even ends with a period.
groan!:
post #33 of 52
I know... it was a bad joke.

If I could make good jokes, I'd be a comedian.
post #34 of 52

sunrise or wine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
What is better, a beautiful sunrise or a fine wine?
fine wine would have a very slight edge
post #35 of 52
Thread Starter 
add triscuits=heaven.
post #36 of 52
Carving is "better?" By what metric? In what sense is it "better?"

Anyway, yes, it's fun, and it requires discipline in all the fundamental skills. Many people who think they carve, don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsbar View Post
Because it makes boring groomers fun. Also, if you can carve, you can skid. If you can carve, you have or almost have the right edging dynamics for all sorts of terrain. Not so the other way around.
True, in the sense that carving requires accuracy and discipline. Note, however, that many people who think they're carving aren't really doing it, and they often lack the balance and edge control to create a true carve. Those who can really do it can also take edging to the other end of the spectrum and flatten their skis when it's appropriate to do so. They can balance and angulate to accurately control edge angle, rather than just inclining and living with whatever edge angle they get. People who can carve can also pivot-slip down a narrow corridor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller View Post
I have exactly the same experience with carving as goldsbar does - I like it (once in a while) it is fun, it fills very powerful and aggressive... But you know what, my quads start to hurt like hell and I can not catch my breath... and it happens to me very fast. It also happens to all pro skiers too! All the racers are out of breath at the finish line, watch any WC event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsbar View Post
I see a lot of talk about efficiency but I find the opposite. High edge angle rr track runs leave me out of breath and my legs burning - at least early season. Pointing the skis downhill and using the occassional skid for speed control is much less physically demanding.
Huh? I find that when I'm leaving arc-to-arc railroad tracks on lovely early morning corduroy, I have a tendancy to get cold because I'm moving pretty fast and not working very hard. This is true even if there's enough room to keep turning up the hill for speed control. Skiing 2,000 vertical feet of blue groomer without a single skid, without a single "scarve," without a single pivot of any kind, clean, but with a line chosen to give at least some speed control, is a bit of a kick. It's not a very good idea when the public is on the run, though...

As for the pro skiers - well, they're doing a whole lot more than "just" carving. To make those gates and minimize the time, they've got a whole lot more movement going on than I need in my morning cruise! I want to keep moving, keep increasing or decreasing edge angle through the turn, move downhill progressively and with intent, but I sure don't need to do what they do.
post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by stroller
I have exactly the same experience with carving as goldsbar does - I like it (once in a while) it is fun, it fills very powerful and aggressive... But you know what, my quads start to hurt like hell and I can not catch my breath... and it happens to me very fast. It also happens to all pro skiers too! All the racers are out of breath at the finish line, watch any WC event.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsbar
I see a lot of talk about efficiency but I find the opposite. High edge angle rr track runs leave me out of breath and my legs burning - at least early season. Pointing the skis downhill and using the occassional skid for speed control is much less physically demanding.
Quote:
Huh? I find that when I'm leaving arc-to-arc railroad tracks on lovely early morning corduroy, I have a tendancy to get cold because I'm moving pretty fast and not working very hard. This is true even if there's enough room to keep turning up the hill for speed control. Skiing 2,000 vertical feet of blue groomer without a single skid, without a single "scarve," without a single pivot of any kind, clean, but with a line chosen to give at least some speed control, is a bit of a kick. It's not a very good idea when the public is on the run, though...
I think it has to do with the amount of centrifigual force your legs have to resist. Increasing the speed or decreasing the radius of the carved turn (or both at the same time) will greatly increase the force that your quads have to resist.

I agree that relaxed carved cruse is not much work, but pushing your limits on speed and tightness of the turn (especially with a ski with a small turn radius) will quickly elevate the work a skier is puting forth.
post #38 of 52
If your drinking that fine wine at sunrise, you either had a great night or you have a problem triscuits or no triscuits.

A beautiful carved turn is just a demonstration that you have mastered one more way to use your skis to effectively get down the mountain.
What was the question again?
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by skugrud View Post
I agree that relaxed carved cruse is not much work, but pushing your limits on speed and tightness of the turn (especially with a ski with a small turn radius) will quickly elevate the work a skier is puting forth.
How does it compare to pushing your limits on speed and tightness of the turn while not carving?
post #40 of 52
Funny one of the best Instructors I have ever known. An Instructor who has made the top 100 in the Nation two times , Told me that effective skiing required every little effort or wasted energy. Personally i think it takes far less energy to make good turns then try to recover from poorly executed turns. Maybe that's why I get so warn out when i ski.
post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49 View Post
Funny one of the best Instructors I have ever known. An Instructor who has made the top 100 in the Nation two times , Told me that effective skiing required every little effort or wasted energy. Personally i think it takes far less energy to make good turns then try to recover from poorly executed turns. Maybe that's why I get so warn out when i ski.
Right on!
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by skugrud
I agree that relaxed carved cruse is not much work, but pushing your limits on speed and tightness of the turn (especially with a ski with a small turn radius) will quickly elevate the work a skier is puting forth.

Quote:
How does it compare to pushing your limits on speed and tightness of the turn while not carving?
Today 11:40 AM

The turns I am talking about have are aggressive, have a tight radius and take me across the fall line a considerable distance (but not a traverse) and leave 2 clean carve tracks in the snow. These tracks leave huge "c" shapes extending from side to side of the narrow midwest runs. Turns with a lot of edge angle and upper/lower body separation.

I do not think it would be able to make turns this tight at this speed when skidding my turn.

Hope this describes things better, it is hard to put this into words.

I am not sure if
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by skugrud View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by skugrud
I agree that relaxed carved cruse is not much work, but pushing your limits on speed and tightness of the turn (especially with a ski with a small turn radius) will quickly elevate the work a skier is puting forth.

Today 11:40 AM

The turns I am talking about have are aggressive, have a tight radius and take me across the fall line a considerable distance (but not a traverse) and leave 2 clean carve tracks in the snow. These tracks leave huge "c" shapes extending from side to side of the narrow midwest runs. Turns with a lot of edge angle and upper/lower body separation.

I do not think it would be able to make turns this tight at this speed when skidding my turn.

Hope this describes things better, it is hard to put this into words.

I am not sure if
I must be old.....cause after about 4 hours of tunring a 13M ski I'm tuckered.
post #44 of 52
I don't think carving is better than other aspects of skiing, but it can be faster. There are few things in life as fun as linking 50 medium radius turns going 50 without skidding a nudge. All snow conditions are different, you have to find the best turn for the best condition, and in many circumstances, a perfectly carved turn rocks. thanks for getting me thinking of it before my sunny/cold day on rained-on and now frozen snowpack...

~~~Perhaps not word for word, but- "Anybody can carve a turn, those who win races generate speed with every one." Picabo Street.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post
Carving is for maintaining or increasing speed in a turn. It's better when that's your goal, worse when it's not.
post #45 of 52
its not.

anyways are we talking "arcing"(railroad track turns) or "carving" ( a turn where edging and pressure are used much more than rotary aka Dynamic)

I almost never use the term "carving" anymore its such a vague term.

Great skiing is about skills blending, efficiency, and line choice. Nothing more nothing less. carving can be the most efficient way down but not allways.
post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan View Post
pretty sure the "expert" thing was tongue-in-cheek.
as was my whole post!
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan View Post
actually ramshackle i get plenty of second-hand harb and true enough much of what he has to say and show has been beneficial but i simply am averse to taking sides especially when it becomes a shouting match and the larger objective - skiing well, having fun - seems to suffer in the crossfire and while i do like that locked-in sensation carving brings i am not the type to stop and look back at my tracks like breadcrumbs leading to the grail especially when i find myself in a tight steep shot and the lovely flatness of the bases of the tails of my more-versatile-a-tool-than-just-a-scalpel skis float i say float across soft and sweet as a snowflake adrift to my assertive edge set and pause and release and continue the flow all allegiance to dogma be danged because you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows period
As softly as commentary on punctuation-less stream of consciousness floats over the target's head, perhaps.

post #48 of 52
Carving ISN'T better. It's the result of a conscious choice that you, as an individual, make with regards to your skiing. Therefore, carving is a TACTIC at best. It does take some precision, but so does skidding across an Ice patch without interrupting movement.

Do Whatcha like.

Spag
post #49 of 52
I just love the feeling of linking turns - 1 turn of a particular speed/angle requires a turn of equal speed/angle to balance the rhythm . The fact that at ANY turn you can change anything about that rhythm/angle/speed .
It almost seems to be a rhythmic dance , tempo directed by you . Each turn compliments the previous and next at the same time .
I am OLD - skiing was viewed as a beautiful thing . To me skiing IS still about beauty . Man and nature BLENDING .
post #50 of 52
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by skugrud View Post
The turns I am talking about have are aggressive, have a tight radius and take me across the fall line a considerable distance (but not a traverse) and leave 2 clean carve tracks in the snow. These tracks leave huge "c" shapes extending from side to side of the narrow midwest runs. Turns with a lot of edge angle and upper/lower body separation.

I do not think it would be able to make turns this tight at this speed when skidding my turn.
Do you see that these are not the only possible types of carved turns? Does it make sense that perhaps the style of carved turn is contributing greatly to the energy you must exert to manage the forces that are generated in the turns? Furthermore, can you see that there are many variables involved in turns, and that comparing the efficiency of carving to not carving requires more definitional precision than just "carving" and "not carving" since there is a broad range of each type of turn?

That's the point that I was trying to make, anyway.

For instance, making easy, arc-to-arc turns on a typical Rocky Mountain blue trail versus making skidded, defensive turns on that same trail at approximately the same downhill pace would demonstrate a more apples-to-apples comparison. In that case, I would expect the carved turns to be more efficient.

However, performing the highest speed/performance carved turns on that terrain and comparing them to the typical skidded turn would be a different story, since the former would generate substantially greater turn forces than the latter.
post #52 of 52
You guys are obsessed, you need to slurp some Jaegermester.:

And this is an exexpert speaking...

....Ott
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