or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Slow line Fast

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
I know this is confusing to some visitors here.

Can you explain what it means to ski the slow line fast?
post #2 of 62
Skiing the slow line fast means that your intentions are to select a line to ski in which you are constantly on the gas looking for more speed. Your speed may only be 5 mph but you are looking for more speed.

You could get more speed by runing a straighter line down the slope (fast line) but your intention is to limit your speed with line and then try to ski that line as fast as you can. This is skiing with NO BRAKES, full speed ahead and damn the torpedos.

In contrast, skiing the fast line slowly is selecting a line in which you must use braking/skidding on edge to select the speed that you want. Turning is by stopping progress in one direction with a tail skid in order to go the oposite direction.

97% of the skiers on this forum ski the fast line slow method. 75% of the skiers on this forum think they are skiing the slow line fast. The concept is too simple to comprehend.
post #3 of 62
Here is Bob's "explaining post".
post #4 of 62
Thread Starter 
How come you didn't give me your version therusty?

Pierre's version was better because there aren't words like "paradigm in them.

I'm like Andy Rooney. I don't want to use a dictionary to interpret an answer.
post #5 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
97% of the skiers on this forum ski the fast line slow method. 75% of the skiers on this forum think they are skiing the slow line fast. The concept is too simple to comprehend.
Pierre,

Can you share the data that supports this? Are there categories to breakout which are instructors? Can it be used to update the instructor listing so we only take lessons from the 3% if we're seeking to learn to ski offensively?
post #6 of 62
Thread Starter 
Ya, we polled the 14,000 members of Epic Ski and came up with percentages.

Must be we missed you.
post #7 of 62
Pierre,

To which catagory do you belong?
post #8 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
97% of the skiers on this forum ski the fast line slow method. 75% of the skiers on this forum think they are skiing the slow line fast.
What percent ski the chosen line at the chosen speed.
post #9 of 62
Ah, thanks, Lars! Musta got thrown out by my spam filter. I guess it's a smidge higher than 97% then

Far as I can tell a pair of dimes is still 20 cents:
post #10 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
How come you didn't give me your version therusty?
Because I thought Bob had invented the phrase. My "line" is about going fast across the hill versus going fast down the hill.
post #11 of 62
Pierre: 97% of the skiers on this forum ski the fast line slow method.

If skiing the "slow line fast" is skiing with no brakes, then you better be carving (pure carves) all the way.

Which leads me to think that 100% of skiers on this forum ski the fast line slow 97% of the time.
post #12 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgeib View Post
Pierre,

Can you share the data that supports this? Are there categories to breakout which are instructors? Can it be used to update the instructor listing so we only take lessons from the 3% if we're seeking to learn to ski offensively?
Oh come on now. I pulled those figures straight out of my ars based on what I have observed here over the years.
post #13 of 62
Why did I touch a nerve on this 97% figure? Must be there is uncertainty out there.
post #14 of 62
i posted this, asking what it meant a couple weeks ago...
Another way of looking at it is making full turns and using the hill to get speed or slowdown, not going far away from the fall line.
ski the fast line slow - when i watch videos it seems that some people skid and it looks like they are doing a hockey stop every time in a turn.
( i think thats right ? )
post #15 of 62
hey buckaroo (skier101) ski the slow line fast ski the fast line slow just don't ski the wrong line dead
post #16 of 62
A quick comment about the origination of the phrase "Ski the slow line fast"

It was a term the D-team used back in the 70' and early 80's to describe the concept of skiing the whole turn, not just rushing through the beginning, to get to the end. And to carry speed through the whole turn rather than go fast in the beginning, then slam on the brakes at the end....

So if you were to exchange the word "long" for the word "slow", maybe you would have a clearer understanding of it... In this context, long = slow. And carry optimal speed throughout.
post #17 of 62
Nice post VSP! Another thought that is a bit more contemporary...
On the USSA Tactics CD they explain it as a matter of choosing a line based on your ability level. Line and tactics are directly dependent on ability level. A high round line is safer than a low line that is more direct towards the gates. They go on to share a drill or two that will help you understand the difference and develop the skill to move past the long slow line into contemporary race lines that are much more direct at the gate.

How does this relate to recreational skiers? In most cases there is a tendency to think of skidding as a bad thing. Which is a mistake. Versatile skiers know that it is just another maneuver from which to choose. When you learn them all, you simply have more tactical (line) options.
post #18 of 62
...
post #19 of 62
Skiing the slow line fast (or, more completely, skiing a slow enough line as fast as you can, when you can) is choosing a line that will make for a comfortable velocity when you ski it as cleanly as you can. In other words, the only characteristic of the skiing experience that controls your speed is the line and its characteristics (reduction in velocity based on the line moving uphill or across the hill, reduction based on the snow's response to the skis taking the line, etc.). It specifically speaks against using friction of edges along the snow for speed control.
post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
97% of the skiers on this forum ski the fast line slow method. 75% of the skiers on this forum think they are skiing the slow line fast. The concept is too simple to comprehend.
Huh. How can you know that? Of the folks who have skied with you who are members here, how many who think they are skiing the slow line fast are? Unless you've skied with them, how can you know? Given the disparity between what I've read in posts and what I've seen on-snow, I get the general drift of your comment, but I think the numbers are silly.

FWIW, I've not skied with 100 members of EpicSki so far, but I've skied with more than 10 members who are fully capable of skiing the slow line fast. I have skied with a few who undoubtedly think that they are, but they aren't.
post #21 of 62
Steve, Using line to control speed also includes loading the ski (flexing it into a reverse carve). A working ski accelerates at a slower rate due to the extra friction / pressure.
That being said the better the skier the less they have to rely one just on manuever. Tighter lines are simply faster through a race course. Staying on that line is a matter of talent. On race day the execution of that line is the difference between first and last place. The winner is always looking for a line that is just a bit faster than second place line.
post #22 of 62
I may be looking at the subject of skiing the slow line fast from only my own perspective, but as long as I’m skiing a particular run using only line and turn shape to indirectly control speed, with the intent to “go there” rather than “don’t go there”, then I think I’m meeting my objective of skiing the slow line fast. I don’t consider that skiing the slow line fast has anything to do with a certain line or a certain speed, but rather from choosing a line and turn shape that’s within my comfort zone (in terms of speed) to eliminate the need for braking movements.

Having said that, I think it’s silly to label a skier as one who absolutely does or does not ski the slow line fast. While I’d agree there are some who never ski the slow line fast, I think that most skiers fall into the category of "they do” and “they don’t” ski the slow line fast, depending on the terrain and conditions they are skiing at a particular point in time. Everybody, whether they would like to admit it or not, has a comfort level in terms of terrain (pitch), conditions, and speed. When they get outside of that comfort level, they will become defensive by nature and will not be skiing the slow line fast. That comfort level is different for everyone, but it does exist, imo.
post #23 of 62
It's quite obvious that my idea of "the slow line fast" is different than most posters on Epicski. Maybe my definition is too narrow.

My definition of "Ski the slow line fast", in a nutshell, is using movement patterns that always release and do not block or inhibit the flow of the center of mass along the turns.

I guess by my definition, "Ski the slow line fast" is movement based that results in line rather than strickly a line/speed thing.

I have skied with more than a hundred bears and I think no more than 15 or so meet this definition on most terrain. I have watched all 15 of those bears use defensive "Fast line Slow" movements when they could have used "Slow line fast". None the less, these bears skied my definition of "The slow line fast" 97% of the time on all terrain so I consider them "Slow Line Fast Skiers"

There are bears on here that I have skied with that certainly hold it together on more terrain than myself.
post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
Steve, Using line to control speed also includes loading the ski (flexing it into a reverse carve). A working ski accelerates at a slower rate due to the extra friction / pressure.
I agree. That's what I intended by this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
reduction based on the snow's response to the skis taking the line
Was there something that I said with which you disagree?
post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
It's quite obvious that my idea of "the slow line fast" is different than most posters on Epicski. Maybe my definition is too narrow.

My definition of "Ski the slow line fast", in a nutshell, is using movement patterns that always release and do not block or inhibit the flow of the center of mass along the turns.

I guess by my definition, "Ski the slow line fast" is movement based that results in line rather than strickly a line/speed thing.

I have skied with more than a hundred bears and I think no more than 15 or so meet this definition on most terrain. I have watched all 15 of those bears use defensive "Fast line Slow" movements when they could have used "Slow line fast". None the less, these bears skied my definition of "The slow line fast" 97% of the time on all terrain so I consider them "Slow Line Fast Skiers"

There are bears on here that I have skied with that certainly hold it together on more terrain than myself.
Pierre, I think your definition is narrower than many of ours, which is neither right nor wrong. But, I think you're adding your own interpretation to Bob's original statement about it.

I also don't think that it's a requirement that any skier ski "slow line fast" 100% of the time to be a "slow line fast skier". Only that it is available to them in circumstances when they would like to use that tactic. I certainly don't ski that way all the time, but I can ski that way most of the time when I choose to do (as long as my brain hasn't hit the "TOO FAST!" point... ), so I'd put myself in that group--whether or not you would...

BTW, 15 out of 100 is 15%, not 3%...
post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
I also don't think that it's a requirement that any skier ski "slow line fast" 100% of the time to be a "slow line fast skier". Only that it is available to them in circumstances when they would like to use that tactic.
I don't think any skier can ski the "slow line fast" 100% of the time. As Bob Barnes said in his original post, the slow-line-fast requires the skier to be making offensive "go this way" turns. Once a skier reaches their "critical speed or steepness" -- basically their : zone -- they are not going to want to "go that way" anymore. It's just not possible! Nobody is going to be seeking more speed when they believe they're already going too fast.
post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Pierre, I think your definition is narrower than many of ours, which is neither right nor wrong. But, I think you're adding your own interpretation to Bob's original statement about it.
There are many theads on "Ski the slow line fast". In one of them that is several pages long and may not even be titled with "Ski the slow line fast", Bob Barnes pretty much articulates the point that his criterion for judging whether a skier is skiing the slow line fast or the fast line slow is how they are handling the center of mass flow. He bases real intentions of a skier based on observable movement patterns rather than what that skier claims is their intentions. This bantering back and forth in older theads is how I settled on my definition and how I persued that type of skiing.


Bob has in the past tried to explain this by both line/intention selection and movements based intentions. He has said many times that ski the slow line fast is a simple concept but very hard to get the true meaning across in multiple threads. Pehaps he will enter in here.
post #28 of 62
Fair enough, Pierre. I was referring to this classic post to which therusty referred above.
post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
A quick comment about the origination of the phrase "Ski the slow line fast"

It was a term the D-team used back in the 70' and early 80's to describe the concept of skiing the whole turn, not just rushing through the beginning, to get to the end.
Now what would those D-teamers have said about this? Skiing the slow line slow?

http://ronlemaster.com/images/2003-2...e-pc-gs-1.html

Bob was wise to modify the definition.
post #30 of 62
And another thought.

If the term is still this confusing after all these years (and threads) of kicking it around, perhaps we'd be better off kicking it out the door and just sticking with teaching the basics of how to ski.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching