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shinbang to the nth degree

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I bought new boots early this season and love them. Theyre 26.0 nordie SP14's with aline footbeds. I havent had any shell work done becuase i dont really have any bad spots i can identify. However when I ski bumps or trees I get shinbang. I crank my top buckles and booster strap down HARD. Often i need two hands to click it down. That helps, but it doesnt do what i need. When i take a back seat, im trying to eliminate that problem, the bang kicks in and bad. Its worse in my right leg and hurts just to the outside of the front bone. It usually takes a couple days for the pain to subside. Ive already got 25 days on them this season so i dont think this is going to stop on its own.

what should i do? I dont want to go to a bootfitter till i have a clue of what to ask for. I dont have a ton of money to waste.

thanks
post #2 of 27
I have been experiencing a very similar problem with my Nordica Beast 12 boot. I have fairly narrow shins/ lower calves with a very bony, prominent anterior shin bone. It seems like the tongue is only really firmly contacting the shin right on the surface of the bone, rather than wrapping around the sides of the shin with even pressure. The problem isn't up by the upper boot, but right on the bone surface about 1/2 way between the boot top and the instep. I run the stock booster straps on the liner only and not over the shell, and I have tried an eliminator tongue. I thought the eliminator would help (it was recommended by my fitter) but the instant backseat positioning that I feel with the eliminator in place made me remove them quickly.

A local shop guy recommended applying shimming strips to the outside lateral aspect of the tongue, therefore tightening the outside of the tongue into a sharper curvature, and hopefully obtaining more even contact with the entire shin area, not simply the anterior tibial prominence. I haven't tried this yet, but it seemed plausible. any thoughts?
post #3 of 27
Shin bangs on nordicas seem to be very usual. Especially the Doberman boots. Many of our Jr racers and many master racers have been complaining. Just bought new Dobie 110's and was aware of the problems since I had 2003 The Beast before that and they were bad shin bangers but for some reason my new Dobies have given me cero problem with shin bang.

When I was younger the shin bang was so hard that my shin would start bleeding after 2 days in the alps ruining the rest of the week. I found out that it was my hear on my shins that would get pulled out of their natural environment and cause the bleeding. I started to shave my leggs in that spot before season would start and never had any problems after that.
post #4 of 27
shin bang

is it a vertical line down the shin or a horizontal line at boot top?

padding with extra foam around the sore bits might help,

also try a heel lift, and play with the upper cuff alignment too.
post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
I dont seem to have the hair problem. Despite my ape like hair legs my hair seems to be attached. I really dont want to put the tounge pads in becuase i have terrible back seat problems as it is. I really dont want to make them even worse. Guess ill go to the bootfitter with my debit card and hope for the best.

any other thoughts? what exactly is shinbang? Im told that it is actually the calf muscle being torn off the bone. This makes sense since im still sore days after i ski and its tender right near the bone.

if it helps i have rather thick shins and big calves
post #6 of 27
Try a heel lift
post #7 of 27
I think your problem may stem from your "big calves and thick shins". Your "back seat" problem may be from the boot leaning you too forward because of the calf/shin thickness. Do you ever have problems with your quads (thighs) geting overly tired or crampy? Are your heels feeling like they are floating and not fully down into the footbed/heel pocket? My gut feeling would be to get you more upright and have the liner tougue more contoured to your shin physiology.
post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantman View Post
I think your problem may stem from your "big calves and thick shins". Your "back seat" problem may be from the boot leaning you too forward because of the calf/shin thickness. Do you ever have problems with your quads (thighs) geting overly tired or crampy? Are your heels feeling like they are floating and not fully down into the footbed/heel pocket? My gut feeling would be to get you more upright and have the liner tougue more contoured to your shin physiology.

HAHA. O I guess thats a legit question. Yes, almost every time i ski at one point or another my quads fatigue. Ive never thought about my heel floating, ill have to pay attention to it next time im at the hill.
post #9 of 27
My shin bang is a small area in a vertical line right on the anterior surface of the bone a few inches above the ankle. It is definitely an impact/ bruising type of problem, not a hair pulling or shin bite issue. There is no abraded area at all. I already have a heel lift in for lousy dorsiflexion, and while that helped with some loot issues, it didn't do anything for the lower shin pain (possibly it made it a little worse, difficult to tell though. I think I need to get the tongue more contoured in the bottom to better fit the lower shin area, but what is the best way to do this?
post #10 of 27
what is the difference between shin bang and shin splints? shin splints are the muscle tearing away from the bone? Or is it calcium build up?

i used to have issues as well, both nordica and atomic boots. It all starts with a hard landing in the back seat, stretching my shins, then the pain will pretty much last through the duration of the season. Morning coffee used to be accompanied by heaps of aspirin.

not landing big airs in the back seat is my only cure. Falcon 10s/booster have shown no issues. They are less forward lean than the Nordica Grand prix and more than the atomic 1050, so I'm not convinced it was angle alone in the past that hurt. I also don't believe it has anything to do with atually banging your shin on the front of your boot, for me anyway. Perhaps there is a difference between splints and bang that I never deciphered.
post #11 of 27
NYSki...The tongue can be recontoured in many ways. Polyurethane padding can be contoured, plastics can be heated and/or ground. If you need help, get in touch with me.

Samurai...shin bang and shin splints are very generic terms and often used to describe any shin pain. Some shin pain can be attributed to ill fitting boots, some can be attributed to boot/skier misalignment. Landing in the back seat causes the anterior tibialis muscle (shin muscle) to fire/contract in order to rebalance you upper body over your lower body. (also quads) In doing so, there may be a point when the anterior tibialis muscle pulls away from surrounding tissue and shears. I would suspect that this is the case. The morel of this story is not to land in the back seat and/or conditioning.
post #12 of 27
Actually, for a medical standpoint, shin splints are a wastebasket diagnosis for a bunch of (not always related) muscle and connective tissue inflammatory conditions affecting the anterior tibial region, typically from overuse injuries. While I don't doubt this can cause pain and problems with skiing, the "shin bang" I have been experiencing is a point tenderness along the bone surface apparently caused by direct pressure or impact.


I think I just crossposted with cantman here
post #13 of 27
Basicly you need to learn how to ski your blaming your boots for a skiing problem hey man Im not being rude Im just telling you how it is now if you want to try to stop shingbang you need to do a few things FIRST get out of the backseat SECOND get out of the backseat and THIRD get out of the backseat and hey your welcome.
post #14 of 27
Thread Starter 
While I try to avoid this, when i land back seat from a bump, huck, fall whatever, it starts. I feel like my leg is going to break at the top of the boot, then the shin pain lasts pretty much all day. Cranking my boots down seems to be the only help. Only problem is i need to unbuckle them on the lift due to the tightness
post #15 of 27
Booster straps, my sore shins thanked me. Ski better too, they take away all that loose space between skinny pencil legs and the tongue so you get instant response.No more bang. Sweet
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
wow ramshackle, I wish i could could instantly get better. In fact I wish i could take a lesson from you.
I know im no pro, in fact i have plenty of room to improve. Hence why im not a pro, seeking to be a pro, or claiming that i ski better than all.

Im slowly improving as a skier. In fact this season alone i have seen improvment in my form, confidance and overall abulity. This is partially due to a proper fitting pair of boots, and partially due to the fact that im skiing more.
Im not here bitching about how i cant turn stiff skis, or how my gear isnt performing, I like to think of myself as a NONgaping idiot.
As I stated above, im trying to break my backseat problem. If i didnt know it was a problem, i wouldent have identified or be working on it.
Now, if you have any more inciteful advice on how to stop my boot from hurting my shin, im all ears.
post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 
buzz- the SP14 comes with a nice booster that ive been trying to tighten every time i crank down, i agree, it def. makes a difference. Thing is that my calves are more like elephant's legs than a pencil. So i dont know how much room there is to take up.
post #18 of 27
madmanmlh, I had the same problem as you with a pair of Tecnica Alu Icons and Volkl 6*. At the end of a day, my shins would be bloodied. Happened every time. I tried heel lifts, booster straps and those blue tongue shims. All the tweaking did was to mess up my balance and/or alignment. I think the problem was that I was too far forward in the boots and just had to push so damn hard to flatten the Volkls that were way too stiff for my weight and ability at the time. Frankly, I finally gave up. Knowing that I have a Tecnica foot, I bought a pair of used XT17 plug boots for $75 and spent another $175 on a pair of Dobbie leather liners. Now you might think that this racing plug would be even more of a problem. Fact is, the shin stuff immediately resolved. Perhaps it is the progressive flex of the the boot which was much more efficient that the Icons, or maybe it is the blood pressure cuff tight fit around the shin, particularly with the Booster strap. What I am suggesting is that it may very well be your boots or even your skis and not your technique. In fact, I can imagine that you may be in the back seat because it is painful to engage the tongue/cuff. Sorry if I can not offer a no-cost solution to a problem I know too well. I don't know. Perhaps out of curiosity you could demo another pair of skis that have easy turning characteristics. Maybe you will find that you do not have to work the shins as hard. That certainly helped me when I dumped the Volkls for a sweet pair of Elan 666's. Hope this helps.
post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
just got back from the fitter. It would seem that when i originally had the aline insole's fit they were 2 sizes too small and my canting was way off. Got the right size fit and canted properly. He thinks i just pulled the crap out of a tendon in my calf and will slowly heal. With less slop in the boot i wont have to torque as much, lessening the bang
post #20 of 27
Count me in on the Nordica(beast 14) shin bang with bumps and jumps! I had boot work and canting but not for this problem. I just think they are too stiff. But they fit great besides
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzz View Post
Booster straps, my sore shins thanked me. Ski better too, they take away all that loose space between skinny pencil legs and the tongue so you get instant response.No more bang. Sweet
madmanmlh: ^^^THIS^^^ is your answer. Make sure you run the booster strap under the shell as much as possible and make sure it is tight.
post #22 of 27
if you don't crank your boosters, you defeat the purpose. I didn't know that and just skied them like regular velcro straps, over my shell and not cranked past the buckles' tightness... still had shin bang.

this year (also a new boot, btw- falcon10) I crank it hard, my buckles are almost loose, no shin bang. I honestly can't believe that ski boot manufacturers are still (after decades) making boots that don't have flexible straps and buckles... as if we want a brick that is either open or closed.

(see plake's design... almost revolutionary in a sense.)
post #23 of 27
My shin hurt and soft tissue surrounding the bone swelled every time after a day of skiing.
The hurting spot was located exactly where the edge of upper buckle is.
I realized that the problem was caused by the buckle.
Upper buckle is a point that restricts shin movement when it moves forward.
Because the boot tongue outer shell is not stiff enough to spread the force evenly, the force is applied to the shin almost at one point, i.e. where the upper buckle is located.
First, I attached some hard (made of aluminum) pads to the boot tongue outer shell to spread the forces evenly and I placed soft pads between the shin and tongue.
It worked, but later I found a better solution.
I loosed completely upper buckle and tightened power straps as much as possible.
To tighten power straps, I tightened upper buckle first as much as possible.
Next, I tightened power straps and I released completely upper buckle.
So, the power strap is tightened as much as possible, upper buckle is released and lower one is tightened to provide a boot good fit.
It works very well.
I don’t have any problems with my shin any more.
Power strap is flexible and obviously much softer that aluminum buckle, so the contact force is spread more evenly by boots tongue shell.
Besides of that, the strap is located higher where the bone is thicker and stronger so a shin can endure the stress better.
So, don’t use upper buckle. Use power strap instead.
Ski boots can be design beter to prevent shin problems.
Relatively flexible straps and the buckles that are used only to tighten the straps could do it.
Also, tongue outer shell should be stiffer to spread forces evenly.
Many years ago, rear entry boots were quite popular.
One of their advantages was that they were easy on shin.
Some boots can cause the shin problems because boot shell is not properly design..
Couple of years ago I tried some boots, probably Nordica as far as I remember.
Every time I bent my legs and moved shin forward, the front part of boot upper shell was bending to “C” shape applying pressure to my shin (middle of the“C“ touching the shin).
post #24 of 27
sure fire cure for "shin bang"

Call it what you want, The cure it to simply buckle your boots properly. To do this, simply start buckling by using the power strap first and under the plastic of the shell. Yes I know this will come as a supprise to all, but by doing this you will successfully be attaching the tounge of the boot to the shin and also to the spine or back of the boot all at once. When you have successfully connected your leg to the linner and to the back of the shell you should then begin to buckle up the outer shell. so in summary tighten up your boots from the inside out. this will solve 80% or more of shin bang symptoms.
post #25 of 27
How often do you ski? Is your leg hair still there? The process of ripping out your leg hair can hurt A LOT, but once it's gone, you're golden!
post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 
i ski 3+ days a week, my legs resemble my head in hairyness. Its not a hair problem because im sore the next day, and day after that. thanks though

im trying different combos of tighening the booster, then the buckes, vice versa and others. Right now my normal habit is crank the top buckels, bottom 2 are not tight, then really tighen the booster. It feels better but not 100%. I think right now im just tightening them so much the only thing that can move is my shin bone within the tissue of my calf. Which is probably the problem
post #27 of 27
Had this problem so bad in my last boots that i thought i might have broken the bone. went to get xrays and found i had bone spurs the size of large marbles on both fibulas. the ortho was aghast. bootfitters (ones recommended here) insisted on new insoles, fancy canting and boot grinding to no avail.

last day of the season in tears at the end of the day, the problem was solved.

try this:

Take out the liners. put footbeds in boots. take zinc oxide or lipstick and put it on the exact place where you are sore. put feet in the shells and buckle them. stand in a skiing stance and move like you were skiing. carefully take off the shells and look where the zinc or lipstick came off onto the boot. chances are, there is a lump or screw or ridge of plastic that is causing this. Do it (more carefully because of the mess) with the liners too.

I found that the boots i had had a high spoiler type of back through which the booster strap went that came around and hit my bones when the boots were cranked down and i was skiing hard. It just needed to be ground down a little. and the liner happened to have a hard plastic logo embedded in it right there too. problem solved. no $$ and five minutes. I had spent close to $400 on various bootfitter 'remedies.'

try it before you spend a fortune on shims and canting you may not need.
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