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183cm Sugar Daddy Review

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
So recently I picked up some used but pristine 183cm Sugar Daddy's I have skied on them for several days.

23 years old
5th season of skiing
PSIA L2
6 foot tall
175lb

basically I can turn left right and stop pretty well on most slopes.

Groomed Snow - edge hold is great, rails VERY fast turn, super stable, not nimble but can be worked to any size turn. The fastest ski in my 3 ski quiver for sure right now. If I want to MACH groomers I pick this ski up over the Gotamas or the Public Enemies. Not as nice in 'playful" turns as the other 2 skis.

Untracked powder - doesnt sink and never really wants to turn, it does turn fine but it would much rather SG every powder field you see. Ironically its good in the trees but when you get in open areas you will find yourself making very few turns. Stable on cliff drops too.

Chopped Deep Crud - ok this is the weird thing, I feel out of control on these things in chopped up crud. My balance is all off fore and aft. In pictures and video I look fine but I feel like crap in heavy crud on these skis. can anyone help me? it seems like the binding is too far forward despite moved all the way to the back of the track. the only fix I have found was going again super fast. At speed it gets smoother I still looks good but never feels a 100 percent...

Light crud/ choppy groomers - one of the best skis I have ever skied in stuff like that. Thats if you like 40mph speeds.

Bumps - workable thats all Ill say, their are other fat skis that are much better in bumps cough gotamas cough. The tail is stiff and I am pretty light. The stiff tail will own you if you dont stay on top of it.

review at my weight and skill level this is not something I would ever ski everyday like Volkl Gotamas, or K2 Seths/PEs, but it freaking hauls ass though. I see it staying in my possession for a awhile.
post #2 of 20
Here is where another 50 pounds comes in handy
I can bend this ski in pow or groomers and make it turn. It kicks my but in bumps but it is confidence inspiring on steeps, pow and crud. It takes the input given and does not seem to deflect in the snow. At 99 in the waist you really feel the high edge angles (it takes effort to hold it), but it will carve on groomers. The ski has a very long turn radius and trying to force it to turn shorter on hardpack causes chattering and skipping of the edge, but in soft snow or powder, it releases a carve easily and short radius turns and speed control are possible. Did we mention this ski is light?
post #3 of 20
RELATIVE FLEXES:
9 - titan pro / Squad / supa stiff bros (270)
8 - LP / Monster / explosiv / dp #3 / capital stiffs (260)
7 - big daddy / stockli dp (250)
6 - ANT / extra stiff kingswood / stiff bros
5 - mantra / ak swallowtail / dp #2 (240)
4 - gotama / soft bros / reg. kingswood (230)
3 - yellow ak rockets / sugar daddy ?
2 - PR / lawnchair (200 or less)
1 - sanouk/made'n
0 - green ak rockets


I assumed that squads were the natural progression from Goats. Guess I was wrong!

Take a look at the TGR flex index thingy. Is this correct? Are they stiffer or softer than the goats? You said stiff tails. What about the tips? If the tips are soft-ish that might give you some weird feelings in heavy crud. Just my $.02...
post #4 of 20
Josh also has 183 gotamas, so I'd wager the SD's are stiffer, given everything I've heard about the "Daddy" series in general.
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
I think the TGR index is wrong. These skis despite slightly more sidecut that my Volkl Gotamas are much more demanding and stiffer ski than the gotamas.
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
I think the TGR index is wrong. These skis despite slightly more sidecut that my Volkl Gotamas are much more demanding and stiffer ski than the gotamas.

I believe Cirque in an older post mentioned that his SD's are much stiffer than his Mantras - good source as he owns both skis...
post #7 of 20
Ok, now you made me curious. To test the relative longitudinal stiffness of each ski, I suspended a Mantra and A-Sugar Daddy between a Maplus Cinch vice, supporting the skis by only the tip and tail at approximately the contact point. I measured the distance from the bench surface. I then placed a 38.5 lb full propane cannister in the center of each ski, and measured the deflection. Very scientific, huh?

Both skis suspended on the vice measured 7.5 inches at the toe and heel from the bench to the base, without any weight applied. With the weight applied, the Mantra deflected only 1/8" more at both the toe and heel.

Conclusion: The Mantra is slightly softer in flex, but no so much that you should really be able to tell. This test was done with an 05-06 Mantra, and the newer models are known to be stiffer. So lets call it a draw at best. The difference in perceived flex comes from the much greater sidecut profile of the Mantra (130-93-113) compared to the Sugar Daddy (126-99-117).

Heel Deflection Atomic Sugar Daddy


Heel Deflection Volkl Mantra (05-06)


By the way, I notice I have a bit of a glut of skis in this particular profile and stiffness. :

Even worse, please note the pending spring conditions outside my "office". : :

On a final note, the above photos illustrate the sleazyness of Atomic edges
post #8 of 20
Cirque, you really think these Sugar Daddies are light? I had to rent them one day at Solitude in January, and they felt like tanks compared to my 179 Soft Bros (I rented the 183's).

I also thought they skied a lot stiffer than the Soft Bros, and I did not like them at all. In the 8" or so of powder and chopped up powder, I felt like I had no control of the skis. I wouldn't recommend these to anyone.
post #9 of 20
Harry, I would guess the weight you felt was due to a demo binding. These things are foam core and have no metal sheets. OTOH, the Bros are some of the lightest sandwich wood cores out there. One of these days, I'll have to jump on the PMGear skis to have a frame of reference. I can say the prototype 192 is not lighter.
post #10 of 20
Single ski weights....................FWIW

'08 Gotama 183/4 lb. 10 oz.
'06 Mantra 184/4 lb. 10 oz.
'07 SD 183/3 lb. 14 oz.

SJ
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
oh yeah I forgot to add I taught lesson these things the other day(well half a day). Never again unless I am teaching Big Mountain High Speed Charging to someone.

I had the top kids group lesson on the mountain and this was way to much to ski for that. I want bindings on my Volkl Gotamas so bad so I can have a "playful" fat ski again.

I love the comparision cirque pretty cool I would be interest in what gotamas would be on that scale.

IMO the Volkl Gotamas are better ski for ALOT of people cause you have stable long ski thats soft enough to not be a burden in bumps and tight place like the Sugar Daddy.
post #12 of 20
Just bought the Snoop Daddies last week, we try to spend as much time in the trees. Tighter the better, at 125-88-111 vs the Sugars at 126-99-117 the Snoops were a better fit for us! If I was to go for a Powder only ski then it might have been the Big Daddy, 145-125-129.
Sure is a nice light ski (Snoops) under 8lbs.Seems to have the ideal balance of float & turning quickness. It will sure fill my void for the All Mt. Ski department.
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
I want bindings on my Volkl Gotamas so bad so I can have a "playful" fat ski again.
You took the bindings off the goats?! :::

Why?
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
I think the TGR index is wrong. These skis despite slightly more sidecut that my Volkl Gotamas are much more demanding and stiffer ski than the gotamas.
This was also my take. Despite being deceptively light and pliable in the shop, the SD's haul like dozers.

Based upon the same conclusions as you, Bushwacker, I went from the 183 to the 173 length (I believe you did the opposite).

If found the 183's fabulous on open bowls, but just too beefy to maneuver in the trees and deep, heavy chop we get at Mt. Baker (and I'm 200 lbs).

Sadly, due to injuries, and unlucky timing, I haven't cut loose on the 173's yet. But, I expect they'll be more playful, and to my liking.

I'll happily sacrifice big bowl straight shots for more turnability on everyday Mt. Baker conditions.
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
after skiong my Gotamas yesterday I have to say there are better skis out there.

The Sugar Daddy's are sold to another maggot now and I am getting new bindings on my volkls.
post #16 of 20
I've gotten a few days on the sd's due to me breaking my gotamas. A friend with the same bootsole let me borrow them. I'm 180, usually ski with a small pack, like all terrain. I really liked them, they were a lot of work in bumps but I try to avoid bumps and a little work won't kill me. I found that you can dive the tip in the deep if you're not careful. They do demand a lot of input and power but I like skis like that. Oh 183's btw.

On another note, I think I'm a terrible ski reviewer. I've been on 5 different pairs of skis in the past week or so and after a run or two I liked all of them. I think I'm too easy to please.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
On another note, I think I'm a terrible ski reviewer. I've been on 5 different pairs of skis in the past week or so and after a run or two I liked all of them. I think I'm too easy to please.
Naw...you just know how to ski.

That's how it used to be done; you pick a pair and learn how to use 'em.

A bit like marriage.

Like many, I suffer from quiver-itis. Anytime the temp. changes a degree or a flake falls, my first reaction is: "Holy shyte...I can't ski this on these. Gotta get my turbo-charged, sleazy-edged, Atomic Danger Dog's".
post #18 of 20
I gotta agree with ZZZ. I enjoyed the SDs a lot in a wide variety of conditions. Today I skied the Salomon AK Rocket Lab Swallowtails (195) in the deep and steep that is Kirkwood after the addition of nearly 10 feet of snow since Sunday. I never understood how these guys straightlline powder lines, but today I got a clue. These skis were stable and had the perfect float in the tips and sink in the tails. The turns on the 'AKs have nothing to do with carving, its a schmear, and they do it on demand. The only thing is, if you are in a chute that is not as wide as these skis are long, just hold on and go. It will all work out fine. I got the biggest kick doing stuff I'd never done before, and with no consequences. I guess that would be all time good.
post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
SDs are now gone, let that be a lesson to me that some skis just dont work with me being light.

The 173cm were too short at speed and the 183s were freaking trucks. the new owner who is 200lb and 6'3 loves them though and I lost no money.

2 skis quiver right now 179 K2 Public Enemies, and 183cm Volkl Gotamas with some 165sl skis on the way for spring time ice.
post #20 of 20
I finally got a chance to ski the 2008 Gotamas back to back with my 2007 Sugar Daddys. Both skis are 183 cm. These skis are not worlds apart in my opinion. The Gotama has a softer tail and rounder flex. It allowed for a much rounder turn, seemed friendlier in steep bumps and was a very friendly ski underfoot. On easy intermediate slopes I left nice rounded railroad tracks with these, while my SDs don't finish as round, and tend to skid at the end of a turn. With the warm weather and sticky snow conditions I really didn't find a place that these skis were not fun. We even dropped into some pretty steep terrain off the Sugar Bowl cornices off Disney. These felt very solid and were easy to release and bring around on the steep.

The SD seems to have more edge grip and would be my preferred wide ski in harder conditions. The SD tends to ski straighter and with a firm mid-body section can straight-line, and may bust crud better than the Got. The SD is lighter and is easier to bring around in turns that are not carved and edged so much as thrown (I know bad habit) think pedal turn. The SD has much more rebound energy stored at the end of a turn, while the Gotama is damper and transitions turns based more in skier input. Skiers that like to use the stored energy in a ski in initiating the next turn will like the SD better. The SD has more of its flex in the tip and tends to stiffen underfoot and become moderately stiff at the tail. This can make the ski seem very difficult to bend evenly for a lightweight skier, but for me it results in a nice turn; however the rebound energy needs to be managed.

I think if I was choosing between the two skis, I would go for the Gotama at this point. There are not enough differences here for me to spend the money to retire the new SDs in favor of the Gotama. Overall the Gotama is more forgiving, and would be a much easier ski to flex for a lighter skier. It holds up to a heavier skier and is very versatile in the snow conditions and turns it can perform in well.

SierraJim and I were working under the instruction of Wade Holiday, a level III instructor and teacher in the Eric DesLauriers All Mountain Ski Pros camps and programs. What a great day to learn some badly needed new tactics for the terrain in which I suck the most. So the purpose of our day was learning first, and ski demoing secondarily. I cycled through a Nordica Afterburner, Atomic Sugar Daddy and Volkl Gotama during the day. It was interesting to see how each ski responded to these new tactics and could be used in some steeper and bumpier terrain than I had been comfortable with.
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