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Skis too short?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, I got referred here from TGR after being JONGed... Hope I can get some help here.

I own a pair of K2 PE's (06/07) in 159. After reading through several forums, I've come to the impression that my skis are too short for me. Can I just get some confirmation? I need a one-ski quiver that can I can use to get better and stay growing with me until I absolutely need to get new ones. At 18, I don't think I'll be growing a large amount any more.

I purchased these skis around Boxing Day as a replacement for my previous pair, which at 155 and being very flexy could not support me pretty well as I grew in height and weight (trying to lose it skiing... ). My bootfitter @ Snow Covers recommended these skis to me, and they were both the least-expensive and best-suited ones to me (the other choice was the Scratch BC, and it's less stiffer than the PE's, and less of an all-mountain ski) according to his description. He was one of the senior guys there, and I went with his recommendation without any hesitation. Needing new bindings too, I went with the Tyrolia Mojo 11's that he also recommended - I was a bit tight on funds too, so the Mojo 11's were a good budget alternative, it seemed.

After going up at New Year's and skiing for 3 days in Whistler, I loved the PE's because they were so much better for me than my old skis. These babies were absolutely stable at any speed (that I dared to push them to), and recovery from stupid s**t was pretty easy. My confidence increased greatly with these babies on my feet. The only thing holding me back from getting better and faster was my lack of courage... something that I'm hoping to rectify when I go up again next week. After my get-to-know-skis-again session @ New Year's, I think I'm ready to go bigger and faster again.

I weight 215lbs, am 5' 7" bare-footed and am (stuck at) an intermediate level (Type II Skier). I can do blue runs with parallel if it's not too steep/bumpy, and am classified as Level 4 (out of 7) in the Whistler Ski School rating system. I live in British Columbia. I go through pretty much all the green/blue trails, and am trying to learn gladed skiing, and tree runs. One of the reasons for a lack of courage is the fact that I gave myself in 2005, a completely torn MCL, and two staples in my ACL to keep it together - this was from a botched tree-run during a lesson, and required surgery. The first time I went back to the trees after this... I was scared witless.

Any thoughts/tips? This is also my first season on twin-tips, and I've only done 3 days on the PE's so far...

EDIT: Added some qualifiers. Cleaned up spelling.
post #2 of 25
If you like your skis and don't feel there is a speed limit and feel stable, they are perfect for you.
Demo a longer ski and decide is an option.
post #3 of 25
Longer helps in the powder, and stay stable at speed. When your PE start to get chattery when you are going fast, then it is time to jump to longer skis. You really don't want to go too long when you are still learning, you will appreciate a shorter ski in the bumps. The 159 should be good for a long time. My brother, who is a level 8+ skiier 5'6" 175lb has 159 PE & Seths.
post #4 of 25
What gave you the impression the skis were too short? Offhand, a 159cm twin tip does sound short for someone who is 67" tall and 215lbs, but the only real way to decide is to ski them. If the skis work OK for you, they are probably OK. On the other hand, if they get wonky at higher speeds or don't hold well on hard snow, then longer skis will certainly improve that -- but it doesn't sound like the case.

I think longer PEs would suit you better as you advance, but unless the current skis have issues I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy them and re-evaluate the length next time you buy skis.
post #5 of 25
i bet your short skis make you a superstar in the pipe, park and moguls.

most of the time, I get the feeling my skis are too long especially when they get caught up on the sides of moguls.
post #6 of 25
You say you are stuck at intermediate. What boots are you in? Have you been to a bootfitter to make sure they fit properly? Are they too soft? Poorly fitting boots and boots that are too soft or too stiff can also hinder your progression, even more so than any ski you may be on.

Heck at 18 you have another 3 years of growing.
post #7 of 25
look at it this way, these may be your first pair of skis but they certainly won;t be your last. they sound like a quality pair of skis so it;s probably not the skis that are holding you back.

I am not familiar with those skis but they sound like they would be pretty good in the park, moguls and front side cruising with occasional excursions into the bowls.

you could always sell them if you feel you've out grown them.
post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
I think longer PEs would suit you better as you advance, but unless the current skis have issues I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy them and re-evaluate the length next time you buy skis.
So far, I haven't managed to upset them when skiing yet - I'm still quite a ways from the limit of these skis, I think. Will do on the 'enjoy' part. and thanks for the advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Scout Mom View Post
You say you are stuck at intermediate. What boots are you in? Have you been to a bootfitter to make sure they fit properly? Are they too soft? Poorly fitting boots and boots that are too soft or too stiff can also hinder your progression, even more so than any ski you may be on.

Heck at 18 you have another 3 years of growing.
I have a pair of Salomon Ellipse 7.0's that have been bootfitted at Snow Covers in Vancouver, and they fit me quite well now. They might be a mite soft, but they work well for me and the only problem that I've had with them so far is a toe-cramp that occurs in the latter part of the ski-day. It's more of an annoyance than anything, but loosening the toe buckle helps mitigate the symptoms when it occurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tekweezle View Post
look at it this way, these may be your first pair of skis but they certainly won;t be your last. they sound like a quality pair of skis so it;s probably not the skis that are holding you back.

I am not familiar with those skis but they sound like they would be pretty good in the park, moguls and front side cruising with occasional excursions into the bowls.

you could always sell them if you feel you've out grown them.
Nope, it's definitely not the skis holding me back at the moment, tek. It's more my failing courage... I've only been to the terrain garden, to my eternal shame, and I've only been on moguls once or twice - not on these skis however. I'm going to go and do that on Monday when I go up. Cruising and skiing in the bowls are fantastic so far with these skis, I just have to remember to not stop and get stuck in the West Coast powder! I don't think I should sell these just yet... maybe next season when I get better.

EDIT: So, does anyone know why toe cramps occur and how to prevent/solve that problem?
post #9 of 25
I don't know what a Whistler 4 is but once you know how to ski, you will likely want longer skis at 215 lbs. Longer skis should give you more float and more stability at speed. However until you need them, the shorter ones will be easier to learn on, especially if you intend on going into tight quarters. Wide open spaces with deep snow is another story.

So you won't impress all the expert rippers at TGR, who cares?
post #10 of 25
my first skis were a little too long 183 K2 4. they were fairly straight and were pretty good for going all mountain and on steep terrain and at high speeds. I was not too good on them in moguls and tight quarters. so I did more cruising on them more than anything. i wonder if the skis held me back a little or atleast influenced my skiing habits.

I replaced them with 167 K2 Mach. Shorter but just as stable, I found out I could make tighter turns without sacrificing speed and stability.

now I am on a pair of 171 Salamon Screams. some days they feel a little too long and not as quick as my K2;s. I guess I am just not used to them yet as I only have about 9 days of skiing on them so far.

by the way, I am about 5 10, 210 lbs. I get confused by the recommendations that say that a >195 lb skier ought to be on 195-210 skis. I don;t think I could turn them. I once tried a pair of 190 straight skis and it was a bad experience.
post #11 of 25
Wow.
post #12 of 25
If it's shorter than 185 over at TGR (even if you're 5'3", 125# soaking wet), you get JONG'd. No biggie. You're the one skiing on your gear - no one else!

FWIW - I'm 5'11", 185#, and ski on stuff from 166 - 191 depending on the ski. I actually enjoy having shorter skis every now and then as I can do some things on those that I can't on my "expected" length. Same with a longer "old school" ski - every now & then, change is fun. I bet there's even a few mags over at TGR that would like a shorter ski from time to time, although they'll never admit it publicly... :

Good advice in demoing to decide the length that's best for you - that's what I would do and once you've found that magical number for you, you can ski *most* skis that you want in that length, provided we're not talking Bionic Race Stock or Super Powder boards.

Good luck!
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpuff View Post
Hey guys, I got referred here from TGR after being JONGed... Hope I can get some help here.

.
Not to worry. At TGR your are either an extreme power skier or a JONG. Don't even think about asking advice unless it is a about a 100mm waisted ski. : At least they were kind enough to refer you here. :

With that said we all have to start somewhere It appears that the ski works for you at this time. Enjoy it and know that you will outgrow it some point in time. I too am a skier who is moving forward in the sport and on my third "generation" of skis. From what I have learned, you will find your skis to be too short-esp at your weight. So plan to buy longer in the near future. Read and post here. Unlike TGR, folk here are supportive and would rather see you improve in the sport than be a source of ridicule.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNPete View Post
Unlike TGR, folk here are supportive and would rather see you improve in the sport than be a source of ridicule.
Double wow.


Roastpuff - since you just bought the 159 PEs, I wouldn't suggest you throw them in the dumpster just yet. But, I'd definetly suggest demoing longer skis. Quite a bit longer. Where you're at right now a shorter ski is easier to muscle around in the trees and stuff. But once you start learning how to make the ski do most of the work, the 159's will be nothing but a hinderance. It's a commonly held Epic missconception that you need really short skis to ski trees. And if you thought the 159's were stable, than a 175 will probably blow your mind.
post #15 of 25
my 183s ski tight trees really well. because they float. I want longer. I'm 5'9"/175. I am fairly advanced, but skis are easier to maneuver when they aren't sinking in the snow, this is why many people desire more surface area in trees and why the shorter-ski-is-better-in-trees just doesn't hold value.

But keep your skis, you'll KNOW when they are too short. Learn to ski them and you'll be fine.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Double wow.


Roastpuff - since you just bought the 159 PEs, I wouldn't suggest you throw them in the dumpster just yet. But, I'd definetly suggest demoing longer skis. Quite a bit longer. Where you're at right now a shorter ski is easier to muscle around in the trees and stuff. But once you start learning how to make the ski do most of the work, the 159's will be nothing but a hinderance. It's a commonly held Epic missconception that you need really short skis to ski trees. And if you thought the 159's were stable, than a 175 will probably blow your mind.
x2 I have the those PEs in a 179 and wish they made them longer, only problem with a otherwise great ski IMO. (k2 are you listening a 184 or 189 perhaps?). Your binding are fine but I think you should try some longer skis too. 159 is way short IMO.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Double wow.


Roastpuff - since you just bought the 159 PEs, I wouldn't suggest you throw them in the dumpster just yet. But, I'd definetly suggest demoing longer skis. Quite a bit longer. Where you're at right now a shorter ski is easier to muscle around in the trees and stuff. But once you start learning how to make the ski do most of the work, the 159's will be nothing but a hinderance. It's a commonly held Epic missconception that you need really short skis to ski trees. And if you thought the 159's were stable, than a 175 will probably blow your mind.
^^

Jer is right on. I posted in the TGR thread but just to reiterate, if you goal is to ski the trees then you want to gain some skills because vanilla intermed skills don't cut it in the trees. I would save your coin for now, and ski as much as you can. Take lesson or two as well to keep on track. Move your game on to carving high speed groomers and learning moguls. If you feel like you are pushing your limits on the 159s (shouldnt be that hard) then demo a longer ski and find out what you have been missing. Good luck. --Tim
post #18 of 25
Hey I was the one who first refered you here from TGR. While I think that those skis are to short for you, I also think you should not sell them and instead save your money for a nice pair of skis when you can use them.

Last year at this time I weighed in at 220lbs (im 170 now) and I skied on a pair of 2 season's old, bought used, noodly as hell, never been tuned, 171 1080's. The skis were in all seriousness complete **** (I still use them for skiing down the pavement when it snows down here) but I was broke as hell and thats what I had. However despite thier shittiness I skied them for over 100 days last season in deep as hell powder moguls groomers steep as **** scary terrain etc.

Would I ever want to ski those again? NO But did they help make me a better skier? I think so, I learned how to ski powder the old school way with tons of extension. I learned how to stay ballanced so that I could charge crud at high speeds, as well as not pull out of my shitty din10 solly bindars.

I got better at skiing last season on those short 1080 than I ever had in any previous season. Im not saying it was the crappy skis that did it but instead it was the amount of skiing. What im trying to say is it "aint about the bike..."

And with all the money I saved, plus a job this year I was able to upgrade to my bsquads which made skiing suprisingly easy after coming of my 1080s.
post #19 of 25
171 1080's to Bsquads? must be like running a marathon vs standing on a dog sled.

and you're right, shitty skis do get you in shape, making the transition into more appropriate skis even more fun. This is specifically why i do not start a season on new skis, but rather always start a season on last year's beat-up equipment. (and I have followed this methodology for 10 years because of how rewarding the new boards become.)
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Wow. Thanks for all the replies, guys!

The consensus in this case seems to be for me to keep using the PE's until I outgrow them in ability, and that's what I'm going to do for now. As many of you advised, I'm going to get in shape, improve, and then buy myself some longer skis to replace the current ones... better start saving soon!

PhilT, thanks for the referral, and your point is one that I agree with... and as a skier I find myself to be quite lacking compared to my younger siblings. It's sad when you find it hard to catch up to your 16-year old brother.

Jer, I'll make a note to do that at the start of next season... I'll come back for recommendations on what to demo.

As for the toe cramps that happen to me later in the day... any suggestions on how to avoid or get of them once they happen?
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastpuff View Post
As for the toe cramps that happen to me later in the day... any suggestions on how to avoid or get of them once they happen?
I too use the Elipse 7 boots, which are a decent middle of the road boot. They are not the highest performing boot, but I ski to have fun and enjoy myself. I like the fact that I can ski in total comfort. Once I buckle them down that's it for the rest of the day. I only unbuckle when I get ready to drive home.

I had foot cramp problems tho. The solution: I got new foot beds. I had foot beds made after 10 ski days. That's when the cramping started. So I had new footbeds made by a person who knew what he was doing and have been pain free since. So it could be that your foot beds are not made correctly (assuming that you had beds made-otherwise have some made).
post #22 of 25
how much room do you have in the boot?

foot cramp could suggest that the width of the boot is too narrow in the toe area. perhaps you could get it blown out in the toe area. i used to get bad foot pains with my old nordica boots. the toe box was to small for my feet.

or if you foot moves too freely in the boot or heel lifts out, it could suggest that your feet are not securely in the boot. Salomon boots have the reputation for have the most volume in the calf area.

go to a bootfitter and ask their advice. goodluck!
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNPete View Post
I had foot cramp problems tho. The solution: I got new foot beds. I had foot beds made after 10 ski days. That's when the cramping started. So I had new footbeds made by a person who knew what he was doing and have been pain free since. So it could be that your foot beds are not made correctly (assuming that you had beds made-otherwise have some made).
No, I don't have footbeds made. I'm thinking of getting one made, actually... it all depends on when I can get over to Snowcovers to have my bootfitter look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tekweezle View Post
how much room do you have in the boot?

foot cramp could suggest that the width of the boot is too narrow in the toe area. perhaps you could get it blown out in the toe area. i used to get bad foot pains with my old nordica boots. the toe box was to small for my feet.

or if you foot moves too freely in the boot or heel lifts out, it could suggest that your feet are not securely in the boot. Salomon boots have the reputation for have the most volume in the calf area.

go to a bootfitter and ask their advice. goodluck!
I have a fairly large amount of room in the boots, and the toes have been blown out by the people at Snowcovers. The heels lift sometimes, especially when I get off-balance and lean forward too much. I think the boots fit pretty good around the calf area - I have large calfs, and need the space - but it could do better around the Achilles/heel area.
post #24 of 25
i have salomon boots as well. i have large calves too.

if your heel is lifting out, maybe you need a heel pad. that would certainly lead to foot fatigue.

sometimes, I just take a break in the middle of the day and take my boots off. sort of my body;s way of telling me to take it easy! odd thing is that I usually have pain on days 1-2 of a a weeklong trip and I guess it becomes more bearable by days 4-5.
post #25 of 25
incidently, I bought a new pair of skis yesterday-a pair of K2 Public Enemy off of Steep and Cheap for 207$ in 169 length. i just couldn;t resist!

if you ever decide to get newer longer skis, you could have your existing bindings mounted on a new pair. Ebay and other online retailers are not a bad place to buy skis.

or you could simply relegate your 159 PE's to terrain park, half pipe, tree skiing and mogul usage(where shorter skis seem to be the norm) and invest in a longer all mountain ski(maybe a longer pair of PE's) for general purpose carving and cruising.
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