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Video of a PMTS student - Page 4

post #91 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
Having skied a bit with Max, that was my impression immediately. Then again, who doesn't ski worse in either drill or in front of a camera? Anyway, he skis MUCH better in real life, and does indeed, look just about the same in gnarlier snow.
Well that's nice of you to say. Of course I can't see myself ski so I have no idea what I look like other than the video I see from time to time. I will say that taking video and studying it has done alot for my skiing. I'm a visual learner and it helps me to see what needs fixing!

The Mt Hood turns (I really don't like the way I look there, too stiff and rushed) were put up to show that PMTS isn't all edge locked carving (others that don't understand PMTS movements may see rotary in those, but I can assure you I don't do anything to actively redirect my skis. They come around as a result of flexing, tipping, and the secondary movements). It’s difficult to tell but those turns were very fast and at a fairly fast pace. At the time they were the quickest turns I had ever made at that speed. If you look carefully you can see that I have to absorb a lot of energy from turn to turn or I’m going to get tossed. I'm glad that HH kept pushing me to turn faster as my ability to ski steeper stuff in cruddy conditions has improved noticeably and skiing in trees has become far more interesting. Before that camp I had never run a set of flushes in my life. And I can tell you that running the flush course was a bit intimidating for me. Yet six months later I feel very comfortable doing quick flush type turns as you can see in the carving section of the video. I really can’t give a high enough plug for the PMTS Race Camp. If you are anywhere near Mt Hood in early June you should think about attending.
post #92 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
others that don't understand PMTS movements may see rotary in those, but I can assure you I don't do anything to actively redirect my skis. They come around as a result of flexing, tipping, and the secondary movements
i've been playing with exactly that, trusting, rather than defaulting to steer mode when i think it's the only way the skis are going to come around in time.

being more active with the new inside ski - the release and tip - is what's helping, with more nuanced counter-balancing. and actively pulling the free foot back is smoothing out the bumps.
post #93 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Are you are suggesting I ski Mt Bachelor's heavy PNW crud with a 90/10 weighting?!?!: If I do that (I have) the stance ski gets stuck and I go flying.
Well, let me ask how deep are you talking about. Its a "feel" thing but I think you would agree that you have to trust the downhill edge. A strong countering movement will help to solidify the turn through the crud bringing the skis around with your body stacked over the downhill ski will result in good stability and remember the float through the transition. If its piled (a foot or so) remember to use the tops of the bumps as your turning points. You can easily make your turns in the air, hopping off the tops. This is a very effective way to get through that kind of terrain. I think that is more of a Clendendin technique (?) You can moderate the level of edge pressure with the uphill foot required as the terrain dictates. Do you have HH's first video? There are good examples of the postioning in it.
post #94 of 240
PNW crud skiing takes the legs of an Oak tree and on race skis even more so. Your stance ski can go 2 feet deep in a turn. It can be done but it is not easy.
post #95 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
Well, let me ask how deep are you talking about. Its a "feel" thing but I think you would agree that you have to trust the downhill edge.
Well, you can't really have what I consider to be crud in less than 12" of powder and even then its easy to blast through most of the time. Generally when I think of crud I'm thinking of 18" plus of heavy PNW fresh snow that gets all chopped up by skiers and boarders. I don't ski this stuff one footed and HH doesn't advocate that either.

BTW, I never said I ski crud or bumps 50/50, I said closer to 50/50.

For details on how PMTS teaches powder and uneven snow skiing see page 172 of Expert Skier 2.
post #96 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Well, you can't really have what I consider to be crud in less than 12" of powder and even then its easy to blast through most of the time. Generally when I think of crud I'm thinking of 18" plus of heavy PNW fresh snow that gets all chopped up by skiers and boarders. I don't ski this stuff one footed and HH doesn't advocate that either.

BTW, I never said I ski crud or bumps 50/50, I said closer to 50/50.

For details on how PMTS teaches powder and uneven snow skiing see page 172 of Expert Skier 2.
Agreed!
post #97 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
If any one suggestion to make would be to involve the path of the upper body more to help load the ski.
Interesting...if you have time could you describe to me in detail what you are thinking?
post #98 of 240
related:

"There are a number of reasons skiers of all kind have difficulty transferring their carving skills from Blue, Green to Black and all mountain conditions. There are two specific reasons you can carve on moderate slopes and not on steeper more difficult ones. The first is that on steeper slope even shaped skis require more pressure on the front or fore body of the ski. The other is the commitment to higher edge, foot, ankle and ski tipping angle, high in the turn, must be increased.

The "Free Foot" pulling back movement helps to get the body over the skis to pressure the ski fore body."

- HH
post #99 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan View Post
related:

"There are a number of reasons skiers of all kind have difficulty transferring their carving skills from Blue, Green to Black and all mountain conditions. There are two specific reasons you can carve on moderate slopes and not on steeper more difficult ones. The first is that on steeper slope even shaped skis require more pressure on the front or fore body of the ski. The other is the commitment to higher edge, foot, ankle and ski tipping angle, high in the turn, must be increased.

The "Free Foot" pulling back movement helps to get the body over the skis to pressure the ski fore body."

- HH
That's good info. Greater Vertical seperation and maitaining a balanced CM would eliminate the pull back,no.
post #100 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
That's good info. Greater Vertical seperation and maitaining a balanced CM would eliminate the pull back,no.
Because of the counter acting movements the inside hip is leading and this contributes to the inside ski getting forward. Add in the accelerating turn forces and you end up with a ski that wants to get ahead at the end of the a turn. At this point we use a strong foot pullback movement to keep that ski in place so when we transition its under our hips. I try to keep it back all of the time.
post #101 of 240
Arcmeister has a very interesting post here.

http://forums.epicski.com/archive/in...p?t-38027.html

the executive summary is to be aware of the direction of your leg extension.

Imagine your position at fall-line and get your CM to arrive at that point in that position. The thread has a very small progression that worked. Teaching the progression was not quite as stated -- different words were used, and a number of trials at each drill were done until satisfied.

The upshot of which was to make sure that the skier can feel the path of the CM, as independent of the skis. The skier is to imagine where the CM had to be at fall-line, and how the CM was going to get there. You then time your release to make it so -- the timing is chosen so that when the CM begins to be deflected in the new direction of travel, the skis are maximally loaded. Release is complete -- float is a great word, 'cuz it feels that way.

It's less foot-focussed than it is CM-focussed. Of course, you will use PMTS stuff to get the CM into place. It should feel very dynamic/athletic. There ought to be a HUGE difference in the length of legs at fall-line.

You can be certain that WC skiers that exhibit PMTS traits are not allowing just the edge angle to determine the path of the CM.
post #102 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Can you elaborate on how do PMTS skiers extend into turns in difficult snow (say in heavy powder), where they want equal pressure.
Progressive pressure management. Deep heavy snow is a 3D space. If I put all my weight on my outside ski I will sink it. However, If I retract and tip my inside leg while gently extending my outside leg to maintain contact the skis will find resistance in the snow as it packs under the skis. The key for me to keep the skis at exactly the same egde angles and I keep my legs very close together.
post #103 of 240
Thanks Max_501, I do understand what you are saying (and what PMTS expects one to do), but in that kind of deep, soft snow I find it counter-intuitive to extend, even if it is gentle in nature. I find it easier to gently absorb the entire turn and do it with feet close together. Gravity and lots of tipping will ensure that the turn happens. A bit like skiing bumps, where I also have trouble with PMTS.

But for me this is OK, because I am happy to mix up PSIA/CSIA/PMTS. As long as I can handle the run with some flow, I am a happy man.
post #104 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomB View Post
I find it easier to gently absorb the entire turn and do it with feet close together.
When you are all compressed at the end of the turn how do you get out of it? A big pop?
post #105 of 240
Max_501: When you are all compressed at the end of the turn how do you get out of it? A big pop?

Of course, what else can you do after you are compressed like that?
post #106 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
(others that don't understand PMTS movements may see rotary in those, but I can assure you I don't do anything to actively redirect my skis. They come around as a result of flexing, tipping, and the secondary movements). It’s difficult to tell but those turns were very fast and at a fairly fast pace. At the time they were the quickest turns I had ever made at that speed. If you look carefully you can see that I have to absorb a lot of energy from turn to turn or I’m going to get tossed. I'm glad that HH kept pushing me to turn faster as my ability to ski steeper stuff in cruddy conditions has improved noticeably and skiing in trees has become far more interesting. Before that camp I had never run a set of flushes in my life. And I can tell you that running the flush course was a bit intimidating for me. Yet six months later I feel very comfortable doing quick flush type turns as you can see in the carving section of the video. I really can’t give a high enough plug for the PMTS Race Camp. If you are anywhere near Mt Hood in early June you should think about attending.
FWIW, from my untrained eye, I see you tipping and flexing the skis into a curve and riding the edges around that curve. I think what looks like the "rotary" is just the needed rotary for your legs to follow your skis around the curve, and not your legs "steering" the skis. Pobody's nerfect, but you've pretty much got the hang of riding the edges in the direction they were designed to go.

As to the cross-under, cross-over, up, down move. I' not PMTS, but it seems that the avoidance of the up move is just to cut off the undesired unweighted pivot turn a lot of peeps have as a habit. You could have a lot of fun playing with different transitions. You can do a cross over without pivoting, and you can vary timing of retraction. It's lots of fun to suddenly retract at the end of the turn when the skis tails are really loaded up.
post #107 of 240

nice turns

Good info and feedback in this thread.
I agree with Ryan and Si that your acceptance of feedback in a nuetral nature are very nice (and refreshing).

sitting at my desk today with little prodcutive to do, I acutally read this whole thing after looking at the video. I had a few thoughts that I saw that i'm thinking about as well (the old, "you see what you're thinkng about thing".
by the way, i'm certified by All mountain ski pros, which came to exist parrellel to PMTS around the same time, but also a psia guy.

so, overall i like the image and lively feet. for how little you have skied, it's extremely impressive. you obvioulsy are a hard worker with some good talent to boot...

Besides the positives, my constructive impression actually had some similarities with Mike M

Mike M " Little engagement of the tips of the skis, body moving straight down the hill in the old style, as opposed to reaching across the skis as in modern slalom racing.. ..Occasional lack of balance caused by being too far back on your skis. "

Those last 2 clips, you have the propensity to get thrown back as your skis take off. I feel a similar feeling when working a rebound turn on a hard steep groomer (my least favorite skiing). I believe the relax and tip move can lead to letting the hips fall back, which flattens the skis and causes it to loose the energy and leaves the skier back for a moment. It doesn't happen to HH or Eric D, so I don't think it's a systematic problem, but i would work a more lateral move here to mimiize the propensity to get left behind for a moment.

the other thing Mike M touches on is the lack of the CM moving across the hill more. that's something else i'm playing with. sometimes with the retraction, extension, pmts type moves, the tendancy is to absorb the energy/rebound instead of using it. staying stronger, instead of giving in to the pressure can allow the skis to "reach" more. Yes, that is a catch phrase of the psia right now ('the reaching short turn"), but i'd bet HH does it as well.

thanks for posting and keep up the good play.
also, you seemed interested in my head im82, did you find another pair?

Cheers,
Holiday
post #108 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
Max_501-

Other than that, your skills are quite good! I would expect to see that level of skill / performance in a good Level 2 instr candidate.

By the way- Vail is hiring... want a job?
This is way past PSIA lvl 2 certification. get real. this is better than most 3's ski
post #109 of 240
Thread Starter 
I just got a PM asking me about the pitch of the last three clips. They are all from Palmer up at Hood (its rated single black diamond). I don't know what the pitch is.
post #110 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
He is such a great skier. However, I prefer Rocca's style.
Have you seen video of Rocca freeskiing? I've looked, but can't find any. I'd appreciate it if you'd post a link if you know of one.

If you check every other freeskiing video in this link, each person (Grandi, Nyberg, Guay, Cuche) is displaying the very same fundamental execution I was trying to draw your attention to. http://www.youcanski.com/video/video_index_en.htm

Four different top notch WC racers, from 3 different Nations, all with the same extension of the old inside leg to initiate release. There's good reason they're doing it, and I'd not be surprised to see Rocca doing the same thing when out of the environment of gates where the majority of turns require a pivot entry. Pivots require a much higher energy/higher motion (exaggerated flexion/extension) type of skiing than in the arc to arc turns made when freeskiing. Don't be fooled into thinking the predominant transitions you see being used in a WC slalom courses represent the same transitions those same guys would use when linking arc to arc freeskiing turns.
post #111 of 240
This is WC slalom skiing. This is pivoting. This requires retraction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv0tjsQ-eoo
post #112 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Have you seen video of Rocca freeskiing? I've looked, but can't find any. I'd appreciate it if you'd post a link if you know of one.
I've never seen Rocca freeski. I was referring to his beautiful SL skiing. I agree that Grandi is a terrific skier. His freeskiing looks similiar to his GS skiing to me.

Rick, I tried ILE long ago when the big discussions popped up on Epic. It just didn't do anything for me. I prefer the feeling I get from OLR. I don't think that means one is better than the other, I just happen to be more comfortable with OLR.
post #113 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
This is WC slalom skiing. This is pivoting. This requires retraction.
Isn't he freaking awesome to watch! There are many turns in that clip lacking pivoting and he still uses OLR rather than ILE.
post #114 of 240
Max, sorry to say, but you are blind. There is TONS of ILE going on there.
post #115 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Max, sorry to say, but you are blind. There is TONS of ILE going on there.
BigE, before we go down this path I must warn you that I have watched lots of Rocca frame by frame. He is just so much fun to watch.

If you still want to play, please find three transitions out of all of those turns where his two legs are not both agressively flexed (a position which does not occur in my definition of ILE).
post #116 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Rick, I tried ILE long ago when the big discussions popped up on Epic. It just didn't do anything for me. I prefer the feeling I get from OLR. I don't think that means one is better than the other, I just happen to be more comfortable with OLR.
Max, I brought this up for you because I saw a number of flaws in your OLRAT (outside leg relaxation and tip) transitions that could easily be rectified be means of the transition these WC guys I showed you are using.

Your edge changes are very aggressive and harsh. They're much in need of progressive application, of edge angle development. You lose contact with the snow then come down with a hard edge set.

You're fore/aft is very static, and favoring aft. You're not making a move forward after your retraction, it's leaving you stuck chasing to keep up with your skis. If your retraction was accompanied with a pivot, as is the usual case with that type of transition, the pivot would put you automatically into a fore position at the top of the turn. But as you are trying to ski arc to arc, you must make the fore move on your own, and your focus is so on retracting and tipping it's leaving you ill equipped and struggling to make the fore CM move you need.

And you're very tippy in the shoulders. It's causing you to frequently lose outside ski pressure. This relates back to your rushed and imprecise turn initiations. You never really establish a clean and solid outside ski engagement at the top of the turn, so you struggle to try to maintain what you've not yet felt. In your rush to get the inside leg collapsed and the outside ski on a high edge, the inside shoulder drops in and you lose your outside ski.

The transitions I showed you in those freeski videos are particularly well suited to allowing for correction of the technical flaws I pointed out. A day on snow with me and they'd be gone.
post #117 of 240
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
The transitions I showed you in those freeski videos are particularly well suited to allowing for correction of the technical flaws I pointed out. A day on snow with me and they'd be gone.
Yup, I agree with all the things you pointed out. While I appreciate your suggestion to move to ILE as the cure to my negative movements it doesn't really address my lack of proper movements for the way I want to ski. I definitely need to work on my counter movements (CB and CA), better tipping, and a smoother flex. In addition I need to eliminate a slight shoulder movement in my left turns as Pierre pointed out as well working on my free foot pullback move - its just not early enough. Oh yeah, and my pressure management needs ALOT of work, I was just telling Slider that I'm just now at the point where I'm starting to feel the pressure move from the front of my arch to the back of my arch.
post #118 of 240
Maybe your PMTS does not permit you to do a different transition than the outside leg retraction cross under, but I think you would benefit from some experimentation, especially in larger turns. The beauty of allowing centrifugal forces to pull you up over the skis is it applies force downwards into the snow as the skis act as the fulcrum that you rise over. Think of it as a super-weighted release, said release being coincident in time with the new edge initiation. These are two ends of a spectrum, blending is also allowed, between the two skis, and between retraction and extension. Fly through a few transitions varying your altitiude, rate of climb and pressure on the skis as you switch edges.
post #119 of 240
Max, I'll try one more time, as much for everyone else's benefit as for yours.

The transition you're trying to make is just not conducive to the type of turns you're trying to make. If you want to put in a big retraction into your transition, then do what HH does in his short slalom turns, put in a pivot (saw it in the video over at realskiers). This will rectify the problem of getting forward for the start of the new turn because the pivot does it automatically without you having to make a forward move. (Everybody understand that?)

But if you try to do these retraction transitions with arc to arc turns, you're going to have to lever against the back of your boots to launch your hips (which you dropped behind you with your flexion) back over the top of your boots. Sure, it can be done, it's just extra labor and more difficult than these particular turns need to be. This is why it's nice to have more than one transition in your bag of tricks. Pick the one that best suits the type of turn you're trying to make. This is what these guys in the videos I showed you are doing. In a race course, where they need to pivot, they retract.
post #120 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
The beauty of allowing centrifugal forces to pull you up over the skis is it applies force downwards into the snow as the skis act as the fulcrum that you rise over.
Exactly, Ghost. This is how continuous ski to snow pressured contact, and thus superior feel for edge engagement and angle development, are achieved.
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