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Cold wax

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
for my last race, it was very cold and we used CH4 mixed with LFG4. As usual, we leave the wax on and don't scrape it off until our first run.

However, now there is still alot of wax on the base, and I need to get it off to apply a new temperature. what is the best way to get ALL of the cold wax (extremely hard to scrape) off?

did we make a mistake by allowing the cold wax to sit over night, is it different technique that warmer wax (like CH6/CH8)?

post #2 of 9
Sharpen your plastic scraper and then use a brass brush. A steel scraper has the tendency to skip (unless you are very skilled in its use) leaving horizontal gouges across the base.

There are dedicated scraper sharpeners by Toko, Swix and others. You can also use your side edge bevel (assuming it looks like an "L"). Place very fine sandpaper underneath. Place your scraper against the long side of the "L" of your side bevel and sand until sharp. There are other ways to sharpen a plastic scraper while preserving its 90 degree angle but those are two options.

You didn't make a mistake letting the wax sit overnight. CH4/LF4 is just not easy to work with in my experience. Some warm it up with an iron before final scraping. Others argue against that practice saying that it also pulls out the wax you are trying to get into the base. Others argue that chipping cold CH4 has the same effect. Since you are going to replace with a warmer wax the argument is pretty academic. I've never discovered where the truth lies. Because you've already skied with the CH4/LF4 you may not want to risk your bases applying a hot iron to just the residue.

Yet another option is to just iron in your CH6 or CH8 over the CH4/LF4 residue and scrape. Then reapply the correct temp wax.
post #3 of 9
...or us a shop towel, fiberlene or brown paper bag between iron and base to absorb excess wax, then scrape and . I've also been fine using base cleaners, followed by hot scraping and prep or universal wax.

If you are going to a warmer temp wax, and harder wax protects your bases better, what's the down side of leaving a little on and adding your warmer temp waxes over? One school of thought is that when in doubt of wax temperature, erring towards colder/harder is better than erring toward softer/warmer.
post #4 of 9
if you really want to get your skis completely full of the right wax, your going to have to do a few hot waxes.

1. first scrape and steel brush untill nothing is really coming out.

i says steel because CH4 is a bitch and to even set it up you need to use brass.

2. then your going to have to iron some CH6 on a little hot and really let the ski get good and warm so that it mixes with the CH4, then scrape while hot, let cool, scrape and brass brush.

3. by this point you can prob just put on whatever wax you want.

personally, i would just do steps 1 and 3, but if your want to be that way, step 2 is the "correct" way to deal with this kind of thing.
post #5 of 9
You should look into other wax mfg's. I use Dominator HX07 cold powder over the HyperZoom.
post #6 of 9
A layer of Fiberlene during waxing will keep the layer of wax to a minimum which will result in less chipping during scraping. As for CH4 in general, I don't think it should be used as a standalone wax at all, but as a hardening additive. CH6 combined with CH3 powder is a much easier to work with alternative.
post #7 of 9
I don't use any swix waxes, nor do I intend to jack this thread, but a reoccuring question kept coming up.

Some people above mentioned fiberlene or a shop towel between the iron to limit the excess wax. I just tried that this year for the first time (with toko) and discovered my wax jobs don't last as long, however I have always been thurough in my scraping and brushing (I understand that structure is more important than wax in the first place.) I am wondering if using paper actually pulls wax from the pores more, before my desired structure, wax that normally lays beyond my scraper and brush.

Anyway, I stopped using paper because I didn't notice any increase in glide- only a decrease in longevity. It's definetely easier to scrape, but if I have to wax once a day instead of once every 2 or 3, it kind of defeats the purpose. Waxing takes alot longer than scraping.

Maybe I need to base-prep again, too.

post #8 of 9
Samurai, interesting observation and probably good to discuss the finer points and the 'art' of this. Relative to this thread the paper/fiberlene/wax sponge is to absorb the wax. Relative to expediting the waxing process and minimizing scraping, time and mess there is probably some subtle variables that come into play. Mileage will possibly vary depending on several variables and other mitigating factors.

(FWIW I believe in another thread you indicated that brushing wasn't necessary and didn't expect that you also brushed. Are you also scraping & brushing after using the towels?)

If removing as much wax as possible, longer ironing duration, high absorption and repetition is desired. For minimizing scraping, time & mess, lower absorption, lower temperature. less ironing and little repetition is desired. It may take some practice and time to dial it in. I'm wondering what would happen to the duration if you ironed again after absorption? Corking then ironing again?Using a teflon sheet protects the base, if you are not psyched about ironing your bases with minimal wax. What about a harder wax versus softer?

If you are following the Maplus Wax Test thread, you'll find people are experiencing good duration with liquids & sprays with little time and effort, as an alternative approach. (Also, the hard/cold liquids and sprays do not appear to chip or entrain air as far as I know.)

A high-melt, hard prep wax does increase the durability IMO, whether you use solids, liquids or rub-ons.....and/or use the 'wax sponge' approach.
post #9 of 9
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

(FWIW I believe in another thread you indicated that brushing wasn't necessary and didn't expect that you also brushed. Are you also scraping & brushing after using the towels?)
I believe you may be thinking of something I said in regards to removing old wax and hot scraping, in that case, I don't brush as I'm not that concerned about old wax. It seems my waxes mix a bit and being a rec skier, don't really care.

However, I am meticulous about finishing the surface. I scrape to the base and brush maybe 15 strokes.

Nonetheless, I just added the paper step a few times this winter and have since abolished it, as stated.

I scrape and brush at the resort anyway. with the paper step, it seems I only saved a few scraper strokes in the end. But after a day of skiing, the edges of my base were already showing the dryness (not base-burn) I had usually experienced after 2 days of riding. Since abolishing the paper step, I'm back up to 2 days of longevity. :

I do brush daily even if I didn't apply any new wax. Brushing seems to make those first 5 runs a bit faster. After a day of riding, it seems the structure gets pushed around? Like worn out tires.

I was just wondering if the sponge/paper technique actually pulls wax from deeper in the pores of the base, the wax that I counted on and previously restructured for my second day of riding. May be great for racing enthusiasts who wax every day (or run) and rely on very minimal amounts of wax, but I didn't notice any increase in glide, personally.

Although theoretically, the less wax/ the better conditioned the base, the faster, right? I always understood that base material was actually faster than any wax, and hence we scrape. The structure of the base is what we actually tend to. If I'm right in that assurtion, then paper would be a valuable step.
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