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GS technique: Upper Body Anticipation

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I was watching the following video of Kalle Pallander (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYIMF...related&search=) and was watching his extensive use of upper body anticipation. If you freeze the video 20 seconds in you can then watch his skis continue across the fall line while his upper body projects downhill.

Obviously, he is not rotating his lower body. However, watching this can be deceiving because it appears as if he actually rotates his upper body slightly in the direction of the new turn while the skis head aross the fall line. I imagine this is an incorrect analysis, therefore I would like to hear some thoughts as to the proper definition of "anticipation" as it pertains to this sequence. This anticipation is more evident in the turns that require more of an up movement during transition.
post #2 of 11

I think you're pretty close...

...a few years back, everybody was talking about how the whole body always needed to be totally square with the ski. Then last year I had a coach tell me to think about putting my nose over the forebody of the outside ski. Why? A little counter...more up in the chest area, not down in the hips...is a good idea? Why? Following your skis, or staying totally square can let you drift to the inside ski, and maybe into the back seat. A little counter also helps you make the crossover move toward the center of the next turn...so the CM moves down the hill and over the top of the next turn. If you're totally square and roll the knees/edges over...well, you're just falling sideways down the hill.
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
I also notice this predominantly on the steeper portions of the course. I would imagine if you stay completely square on the steeper parts, your skis will lose their edge grip (especially on those injected courses: ).

This is where getting an early edge is absolutely imperative. This anticipation would appear to be a crucial part of releasing the edges and getting your COM inside the turn early.

When I attempt this move, I usually extend to much upward and not enough down the hill. I suppose there in lies the challenge of high level skiing....
post #4 of 11

There's a couple of ways of making it happen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbm13 View Post
I also notice this predominantly on the steeper portions of the course. I would imagine if you stay completely square on the steeper parts, your skis will lose their edge grip (especially on those injected courses: ).

This is where getting an early edge is absolutely imperative. This anticipation would appear to be a crucial part of releasing the edges and getting your COM inside the turn early.

When I attempt this move, I usually extend to much upward and not enough down the hill. I suppose there in lies the challenge of high level skiing....
...to whit:

- You're going off a diving board to the side and forward. Think mostly about the "and forward" part. This is also called the "Superman Move."

- Here's a progression/drills we learned in my USCSA L1 Certification this year that's one of my favorite fix-alls and simplificators for all kinds of problems. And here 'tis:

- A natural athletic stance is the stance you would take if a bear jumped out of the woods at you. Weight balanced evenly on the balls of the feet, all joints flexed, everything in a vertical line over your feet. On the flat, you're standing upright over both feet.

- What we used to call a "traverse position" is now what's called a parallel stance. Our clinic leader said, and I believe it, that you can't do much of anything right until you learn to ski across the hill in parallel stance with your pressure over the inside edge of the outside ski. Because you're not turning yet, you're pretty square to the ski, but you have a pinch at the waist (think of doing the "Schlopy" drill) so you're standing against that edge, not tipping onto the inside ski.

Got it? Okay, then all skiing is is going from one parallel stance...through a natural athletic position...to the other parallel stance. So find something medium steep with no traffic to distract you, and cruise across the hill in parallel stance until you have some good momentum going. Time to turn...so go to the natural athletic stance, which means start tipping the little toe of the outside foot down the hill to flatten the skis...and weight both skis evenly...and, most important, press forward into your boots. Why? Because in a natural athletic stance on the flat, you can stand right over your feet. As soon as the hill starts tilting down, press forward or end up in the back seat. So it's:

- Roll the little toe down the hill to start flattening the skis.

- Weight even on both skis.

- Press forward.

- And most important of all, be patient! Most people try to rush through the turn initiation, which is a bad idea, because inevitably you wind up fighting gravity and momentum, and your muscles are going to lose that battle every time. Instead, use the fact that a pair of flat, evenly weighted skis, wants to seek the fall line (which is where you want to go...) provided that you are pressing forward. Otherwise, your mileage may vary, including the possibility of sliding sideways down the hill, or worse yet, having the tails go into the fall line.

And, of course, once you find the fall line...what next? Simple, just go to the parallel stance on the other side...try it!
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
[quote=SkiRacer55;657741]

- And most important of all, be patient! Most people try to rush through the turn initiation, which is a bad idea, because inevitably you wind up fighting gravity and momentum, and your muscles are going to lose that battle every time. Instead, use the fact that a pair of flat, evenly weighted skis, wants to seek the fall line (which is where you want to go...) provided that you are pressing forward. Otherwise, your mileage may vary, including the possibility of sliding sideways down the hill, or worse yet, having the tails go into the fall line.

quote]

I think part of the problem is that when I hear "Pressing forward" it makes me think of flexing my ankles and knees to press the boot tongue forward (which consequently redistributes the weight from the ball toward the arch and heel of one's foot) Throw in a little gravity and you are in the back seat.

Extending and flexing are the opposite of one another, with the goal being to extend the old inside leg into a skeletally aligned position. Am I to take it that pressing forward means maintaining shin/tongue pressure while one straightens the old inside leg/flexes the old outside leg?
post #6 of 11

Keep it simple...

[quote=jbm13;657780]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

- And most important of all, be patient! Most people try to rush through the turn initiation, which is a bad idea, because inevitably you wind up fighting gravity and momentum, and your muscles are going to lose that battle every time. Instead, use the fact that a pair of flat, evenly weighted skis, wants to seek the fall line (which is where you want to go...) provided that you are pressing forward. Otherwise, your mileage may vary, including the possibility of sliding sideways down the hill, or worse yet, having the tails go into the fall line.

quote]

I think part of the problem is that when I hear "Pressing forward" it makes me think of flexing my ankles and knees to press the boot tongue forward (which consequently redistributes the weight from the ball toward the arch and heel of one's foot) Throw in a little gravity and you are in the back seat.

Extending and flexing are the opposite of one another, with the goal being to extend the old inside leg into a skeletally aligned position. Am I to take it that pressing forward means maintaining shin/tongue pressure while one straightens the old inside leg/flexes the old outside leg?
...pressing forward just means increasing the shin pressure on the front of the boot. I don't see any way you can really do that without flexing the ankles and the knees forward (I also think that your description of pressing forward pretty much has to put you on the ball, not the arch and heel), but it's whatever works. There's another way to do it, which is to think about pulling the feet back under the body. In some ways that's better, because it tends to disturb the CM less. I flatten, weight on both skis, they enter the fall line and try to run away from me...pull the feet back to (or even behind) the hips, and presto, you're in a balanced athletic stance going down an inclined plane...
post #7 of 11
...or move the hips forward. Flexing the ankles without moving the hips forward moves you into a sitting position.

Lolly Moss used to tell me, "keep your bellybutton in front of your boots".

Everyone has a focal point that works for them to achieve the same thing. Some people work better snow up, while others work better top down.
post #8 of 11
Mom calls those PPF turns, as in Push your Pecker/Pussy/Privates Forward. All class, I know.

Andy
post #9 of 11
SKIRACER 55
That was one of the best and simplest explanations of relaxed, high-level skiing I've ever read!!. Harald Harb (and PMTS) is my main man for ripping "high c" carved turns. But sometimes I just like to relax and do what I call "gravity turns"- when I do your description fits exactly how I try to ski.
post #10 of 11

Close, but no cigar

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...to whit:

- A natural athletic stance is the stance you would take if a bear jumped out of the woods at you. Weight balanced evenly on the balls of the feet, all joints flexed, everything in a vertical line over your feet. On the flat, you're standing upright over both feet.

- What we used to call a "traverse position" is now what's called a parallel stance. Our clinic leader said, and I believe it, that you can't do much of anything right until you learn to ski across the hill in parallel stance with your pressure over the inside edge of the outside ski. Because you're not turning yet, you're pretty square to the ski, but you have a pinch at the waist (think of doing the "Schlopy" drill) so you're standing against that edge, not tipping onto the inside ski.

Got it? Okay, then all skiing is is going from one parallel stance...through a natural athletic position...to the other parallel stance. So find something medium steep with no traffic to distract you, and cruise across the hill in parallel stance until you have some good momentum going. Time to turn...so go to the natural athletic stance, which means start tipping the little toe of the outside foot down the hill to flatten the skis...and weight both skis evenly...and, most important, press forward into your boots. Why? Because in a natural athletic stance on the flat, you can stand right over your feet. As soon as the hill starts tilting down, press forward or end up in the back seat. So it's:

- Roll the little toe down the hill to start flattening the skis.

- Weight even on both skis.

- Press forward.

- And most important of all, be patient! Most people try to rush through the turn initiation, which is a bad idea, because inevitably you wind up fighting gravity and momentum, and your muscles are going to lose that battle every time. Instead, use the fact that a pair of flat, evenly weighted skis, wants to seek the fall line (which is where you want to go...) provided that you are pressing forward. Otherwise, your mileage may vary, including the possibility of sliding sideways down the hill, or worse yet, having the tails go into the fall line.

And, of course, once you find the fall line...what next? Simple, just go to the parallel stance on the other side...try it!
(IMHO) Most of the above is beautiful in its simplicity (I have omitted some of the things I do not like)... but with no mention of the inside half lead aspect of the traverse stance ("pretty square" does not cut it) and parallel leg shafts, all is lost. ALSO... the first move to release the arc begins with the outside ski not the inside.
"Pressing forward" starts with dorsiflexion in neutral, like what is said later in this post "pulling the feet back." Forward, meaning additional tip pressure applied to the outside ski is a result of gait mechanics (PREPARATION STANCE or Inside Half Lead, IHL) and proper foot loading sequence that occurs naturally if IHL is employed. Inside ski pressure through the arc is primarily from thigh abduction (to achieve edge angle) and pulling the foot back, keeping it under the inside hip. Bolter
post #11 of 11

Great, I have a yes vote...

Quote:
Originally Posted by patprof66 View Post
SKIRACER 55
That was one of the best and simplest explanations of relaxed, high-level skiing I've ever read!!. Harald Harb (and PMTS) is my main man for ripping "high c" carved turns. But sometimes I just like to relax and do what I call "gravity turns"- when I do your description fits exactly how I try to ski.
...followed by a no vote. Whatever works...I never said I was perfect, just really good...and now, for something completely different:




http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles...-10-DayJob.pdf

http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles...6-03-Goals.pdf

http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles...-03-Hotbox.pdf
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