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combining womens equipment: recipe for disaster?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Will the increased angle of look exclusive bindings, the heel lifted stance of lange exclusive boots and the higher heel area of dynaster exclusive skis increase delta, ramp, whatever you want to call it, to a heel height that is not effective for a majority of people?

One first thought you would think that the companies would have researched the 3 products as a whole...
Second thought: Are the increases over "normal" so small that they make little difference?
Third thought: I'm glad I'm not a girl
post #2 of 12
We had a talk by Mermer Blakeslee about this and other current topics recently. For some people, it's more appropriate to actually have the toes *higher* than the heel! (I can't imagine skiing like that). It was a bit confusing actually, and while I'd never say that all women MUST have their heel elevated, it certainly helps some women who have horrible backstances (often caused by their crappy rear entry boots). But if you had bindings and boots tipping you forward, that could get a bit out of control. Some skis have a rampy-thing built into the actual ski, too.
post #3 of 12
i am biased but i just checked my catalogs (going back 3 years)
-the exclusive binding is not ramped any more than the equivalent "mens" binding
-the ski series does have a slight forward ramp (1.5 degrees)
-the boots have a heel lift in the box taht can be put into the boot to get the weight forward or the ankle/calf in a better position in the shell (lined up with the hinge rivets)
-aside from a couple of specific models (exclusive pro rider/marie martinod pro model for example) all the exclusive ski use their own sidecut/construction/footprint which are completely diffrent from the equivalent mens skis (compare that to other manufacturers)
-the toe higher than the heel is another solution to helping females ski more efficiently/easier (works for guys sometimes too) neither way is right or wrong just "different"
post #4 of 12
I worked with Jeannie Thoren earlier in the season as part of an in-store event and asked her the same question. She responded that in her on-snow clinics, she used all the parts of the Lange-Look-Dynastar system together and saw excellent results from the women participating. Don't know how much of that is just marketing, but many of the women who left the store with the full package have come back in with nothing but good things to say about improvements in their skiing.

You have to remember- very agressive women are not the ones buying womens' equipment. It is mostly terminal intermediate types who benefit from all of the ramp angle and forward mounting points. An expert woman is much more likely to go for unisex equipment.
post #5 of 12
Not all women need ramps. Some do, and they come in all abilities. but it's not good to use it as a panacea. Or a way to move more product.
post #6 of 12
There are too many blanket statements made about womans gear. Where some women are fine in uni-gear, a good amount need some help with ramps and angles. Everyone is different.
post #7 of 12
Have yet to see anyone skiing with their forefoot higher than their heel. The toe of the boot yes, but that is not the same. In my experience and in talking with several coaches lately we see very few skiers that are helped by raising the heel more than most boot manufacturers are already doing.
post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
There are too many blanket statements made about womans gear... Everyone is different.
2nded.
post #9 of 12
The funny thing about this is that to some degree a lift in the boot will work against a lift under the binding.
post #10 of 12
In my opinion, tipping a person forward by increasing ramp angles, forward lean, and making softer flexing boots in women's versions isn't going to get them into an aggressive skiing position. To me, those are fake answers to the real problem:

The person must develop enough power, strength, and aggression in their skiing style and use the equipment to their advantage, tipping a person forward is unnatural; it's using a person's upper body weight tipped forward to try to make them flex a boot instead of flexing from the lower body below the knee, which I think comes from strength.
post #11 of 12
I wonder how ramp angle varies with boot length? Example is a 22.5 and a 25.5 both have a toe height of (say) 10mm and a heel height of 20mm, won't the ramp angle differ? Do boot manufacturers take this into account when designing boots and ramp?
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC View Post
In my opinion, tipping a person forward by increasing ramp angles, forward lean, and making softer flexing boots in women's versions isn't going to get them into an aggressive skiing position. To me, those are fake answers to the real problem:

The person must develop enough power, strength, and aggression in their skiing style and use the equipment to their advantage, tipping a person forward is unnatural; it's using a person's upper body weight tipped forward to try to make them flex a boot instead of flexing from the lower body below the knee, which I think comes from strength.
It would help if they put a weight limit on the boots - I think some of the manufactures believe that most women skiiers are 5'6" and 120lbs, which would justify the super soft skis and boots. They are on the right track with adjusting the shapes of boots and skis to better conform to a women's body, but they do tend to leave out the heavier and more agressive skiiers. I will be the first to agree, that they need a selection of stiffer women's boots and in smaller sizes.

Don't know about the ramp angle - a slight angle makes sense to me, since a women's weight is carried in her hips instead of her upperbody like a guy. So we are required to put more effort into getting our wieght over the tips. I moved my bindings forward on my unisex skis and WOW what a difference it made. I quit being told to get over my tips, and I don't have any ramp angle on my skis. I would think that would be better left as a custom option to be determined by a bootfitter on a case by case basis.

I'm guessing, that over the next 5-10 years, we will continue to see improvement in the women's lines as more of us speak up.
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