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Killington Rumor Mill.....

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Rumor has is that.... ACS to sell K'ton & Pico to Powdr Corp, Attitash to Peak Resorts. The Powdr Corp aquisition is interesting, in that John Cumings has professed a great deal of concern over global warming and this buy would put two of his resorts below marginal snow conditions already, let alone 30 years from now.

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/ind...ticle&sid=1553

Powdr
post #2 of 47
Hmmm, with ASC out of the picture...would that re open up the talks to the Killington/Pico connection?

But moreso, what will that do to my ASC pass?
post #3 of 47
Think your Mt. is a mess now? Just wait till Powdr Corp, gets a hold of it.
post #4 of 47
Last Friday a friend of a friend was told by a K mart employee that Okemo had bought Killington. When we ask our boss at Okemo at our Saturday morning meeting, we all had a good laugh. Why on earth would the Mullers want that.
post #5 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
Think your Mt. is a mess now? Just wait till Powdr Corp, gets a hold of it.
All I know is that there are three resorts in our town, and two of them are run with far more class and professionalism than the third. Guess which one is the third? It rhymes with: The Canyons.
post #6 of 47
but I thought GW was a myth - that PhD guy from Canada told me

hmm ... Ragged is up for sale too - interesting to see what happens if/when Killington gets sold - that's a big one.
post #7 of 47
there was alot of buzz around town but I don't buy it
post #8 of 47
Could this be a deflection. Start a rumor to cover the real agenda of talks between Powder corp and ASC Could it be that powder corp wants to ................. To take over the CANYONS!!!!!!!!! ( insert maniacal laughter here)
post #9 of 47
I can't believe that Peak Resorts is buying those two properties. Someone in that company must have some cash because the inside rumors of Peak Resorts is that they are bleeding red ink on the Crotched Mountain deal.

They are bleeding us dry here in Ohio their busiest resort being Boston Mills/ Brandywine we are seeing no capital improvements and cuts have been made over the past three years to reduce payroll. Local rumor has Peak resorts is trying to unload Brandywine.

If this Attitasha and Mt. Snow rumors are true then Peak Resorts is one leveraged company.
post #10 of 47
eh? What's happening with Mt Snow? Many years (well, not many) back, when ASC had just bought the Crayons and was bleeding itself dry in putting in new lifts etc, Mt Snow was one of the 2 profitable mountains in the company. I'll always remember my time there with some fondness.
post #11 of 47
The word is that Mt Slow and Killy are definitly going, last time I heard Frontier was in the works as they had all the cash. Though as always rumor and professional guessing almost never lie.
post #12 of 47
Then there really won't be an ASC any more.

I really do not care who owns it..just so Kton keeps the $419 pass.
post #13 of 47
Phil I was originally 1/2 joking about Powder corp taking over the canyons
Now you have e thinking that they could be taking over ASC in whole
Both are headquartered in Park City and the Cumins Family does have the the backing to make something like this work.
I'm not a big fan of what Powder corp has done at PCMR but the fact is they have improved the resorts over all standing in rank and in numbers. It might take as little as one land purchase or a lease a lift or two to make a connection between PCMR and the Canyons. Something to think about.
post #14 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49 View Post
... and the Cumins Family does have the the backing to make something like this work...
Story from the execs I know was that Cumming's wanted to sell PCMR a few years ago. Now he seems to have had a change of heart and has bought Las Vegas Ski Resort, and put more money into his existing resorts, so who knows? K'ton might be next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49 View Post
... It might take as little as one land purchase or a lease a lift or two to make a connection between PCMR and the Canyons. Something to think about...
Not going to happen. Western Monitor & Red Pine drainage are owned by The Colony folks. They like their privacy just the way it is and in fact use the area to for 'biles and stuff. If anything, PCMR's expansion plans are onto Pinecone Ridge (the side facing PCMR) and behind Jupiter, for which they hold the lease all the way to 10420 and down to the boy scout camp in the flats.

Powdr
post #15 of 47
With new ownership at K and Pico..do you think this might reopen talks about a connection?
post #16 of 47
hmm ... thinking of the logic - doesn't that mean more investment ie spending more. If they're having trouble making it profitable, doesn't seem to make sense they'd do this to me. But it's an interesting idea.
post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
With new ownership at K and Pico..do you think this might reopen talks about a connection?
I had heard that this idea was essentially dead due to the enviromental concerns, money and relative little upside. Someone around here has to know more.
post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
Then there really won't be an ASC any more.

I really do not care who owns it..just so Kton keeps the $419 pass.
I personally think that if K is sold, there will be no more cheap season passes in the East comparable to what ASC offers. ASC is the only resort owner that offers season passes that low for such major mountains. None of the other areas owned by Powdr offer similarly priced passes for a mountain comparable to K. I don't think they're going to start offering them now just because they've bought K. But that's just my opinion FWIW.
post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanish Armada View Post
I had heard that this idea was essentially dead due to the enviromental concerns, money and relative little upside. Someone around here has to know more.
A lot was from the granola eating, Berkenstock wearing trail lovers, but I think the hatred for ASC had some part in it never getting done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madskier6 View Post
I personally think that if K is sold, there will be no more cheap season passes in the East comparable to what ASC offers. ASC is the only resort owner that offers season passes that low for such major mountains. None of the other areas owned by Powdr offer similarly priced passes for a mountain comparable to K. I don't think they're going to start offering them now just because they've bought K. But that's just my opinion FWIW.
I really hope you are wrong. Because with them not offering it, I see otehr deals such as Okemos 249.00 midweek pass going away too.
post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
I really hope you are wrong. Because with them not offering it, I see otehr deals such as Okemos 249.00 midweek pass going away too.
I hope I'm wrong too. Cheap passes are great for us hardcore skiers but not good for the sustainability of the business in the long run. We shall see.
post #21 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by madskier6 View Post
I hope I'm wrong too. Cheap passes are great for us hardcore skiers but not good for the sustainability of the business in the long run. We shall see.
I think they are good, it creates great cash flow. They get tons of money up front and about $2,000.00 from my family over the past 2 years that they wouldn't have gotten.
post #22 of 47
If Powder Corps takes over the price of a season pass will definately increase. The price of everything on the hill will increase except the wages of those who work there. If it is bad now, just wait.
post #23 of 47
Thread Starter 
Yes, but you will get a quality product worth the extra price you paid for it. When was the last time ASC even repainted its lifts?
post #24 of 47
I don't care what color the lifts are. Give me good snow and an inexpensive pass, that's what I care about. Compared to most in the area, K tron has done that this year.
post #25 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
I think they are good, it creates great cash flow. They get tons of money up front and about $2,000.00 from my family over the past 2 years that they wouldn't have gotten.
I have a hunch that the cheap season tickets make money, even aside from the early cash flow aspect. Expensive season passes are bought only by people who know they are going to get their moneys' worth. Cheap season passes are bought by a lot of people who only think they are going to ski a lot.

Plus, they act as a weather hedge. They offset some of the bad-weather risk from the resort to the customer.
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr View Post
Yes, but you will get a quality product worth the extra price you paid for it. When was the last time ASC even repainted its lifts?
Does paint on the towers really mean alot? What kind of "quality product" are you dreaming of? Maintenance of the lift is much more important than paint. I have been stuck on lifts owned by Powder Corp almost daily for the past few years! Puts a damper on a good ski day for sure!

Bottom line: If you love the mountain, you'll still love the mountain, just not the Nazi's running it! If you kind of like the mountain, you'll hate what its become and go somewhere else!
post #27 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattitude View Post
Bottom line: If you love the mountain, you'll still love the mountain, just not the Nazi's running it! If you kind of like the mountain, you'll hate what its become and go somewhere else!
Hmm, you certainly picked an appropirate username there "M____". :

On the topic of cheap season passes, this pdf, http://tourism.wu-wien.ac.at/oegaf/e...ech/Perdue.pdf is an interesting presentation from a few years ago analyzing the impact of the cheap Colorado passes. It highlights revenue benefits but also some negative impacts of selling huge numbers of inexpensive season passes. I know the situation in Vermont is different, but this is still interesting to read.
post #28 of 47
[quote=sphrrt;659840]Hmm, you certainly picked an appropirate username there "M____". :


And you sound like a Powder Corp employee, management, of course. Quite possibly a share holder. Do I appear to have an attitude?

Only on the skis, bra
post #29 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

But moreso, what will that do to my ASC pass?
Interesting to me, too, as I just talked to Mt. Snow today and got a full rollover for both Jeff's and my ASC pass for next year at full price since we didn't get to use them this year. (Jeff is only skiing near home since I require so much care ).

If the passes go away or become more expensive, at least I'm covered for the price I paid this year.......or will I be? What good is a certificate for bucks off on ASC passes if there is no ASC pass?:
post #30 of 47
I think the "cheap" discounted passes will continue to be a desired revenue source for the resort owner. I think it guarantees them alot of operating capital before the season. Nobody knows what the weather will bring so its a hedge. If the conditions are good, you'll sell more day tickets, if its marginal the ticket revenues will suffer. In addition, the thousand and maybe tens of thousand season pass holders, with more frequent visits then they might make without a pass, will support concessions at the resort. I was shocked to learn our area here in SW Pa.(7 Springs ) has 11,000 season pass holders.

I want to believe the affordable season pass is a win- win propisition for the resort owner and the frequent skier.
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