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What does base burn look like?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
What does base burn look like?
Any pics?
post #2 of 26
If you have a black based ski, base burn looks white or gray in color. The base material looks dry and kind of fuzzy. Typically happens underfoot. It is a result of poor base prep and the friction of the snow slowly destroying your skis. I'll see if I can dig up some pics. I see it all the time.

If you have it, you know. The best remedy is a base grind and layering in a lot of wax!
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Okay, well I'm planning to not rewax for 3 days so if I start to see this will rubbing some Zardoz Notwax over the ski help sort the problem?
post #4 of 26
grey instead of black, usually there are fuzzys- it typically starts near the edges and works towarsds the ctr of the ski- you will absolutely recognize when you see it- look at some old beat up skis
post #5 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
Okay, well I'm planning to not rewax for 3 days so if I start to see this will rubbing some Zardoz Notwax over the ski help sort the problem?
I would avoid zardoz. I have seen the stuff seal bases when used too much. If you need a touch up, use Swix F4 or rub some regular wax on and cork it in.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
will rubbing some Zardoz Notwax over the ski help sort the problem?
No, but it will help stop it from spreading.

Are you doing your own waxing before you go?
Are you using a generic-duty (not race fluoro or other specialized) wax?
Is this on new(ish) skis or ones that are newly stone ground?

If so, you might seriously consider using the Felix process.


post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY GS View Post
I would avoid zardoz. I have seen the stuff seal bases when used too much..
If by 'seal bases' you mean 'newly applied drip or crayon wax doesn't adhere very well to a previously saturated base', I'd agree, but I'd observe that

- that can be fixed in the melt as the iron glides over. The new wax just has to be hot enough.
- you pretty much have to expect to use base cleaner to switch to an entirely non-Zardoz formula.
post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
Well, they're new skis and I've hot scraped them.
I then hot waxed them 3 times - it's generic medium temperature wax (I think it's Maplus P1 paraffin).
Because I can't/won't take my iron and vices away on holiday I was going to use some Zardoz notwax on the bottom every 1-2 days after 3 days skiing or so.

I then plan to hot scrape and rewax when I get back until I next go again...
post #9 of 26
FWIW If it is white (warm) or green (mid temp) solid, it's the Maplus Universal Hot or Universal.
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
red.
I hot scraped with the green universal.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
As usual, I am now totally confusled !
Some say zardoz drys out the base. Others say it seals it. Some say it's the best thing they've ever used. Others say stay away and just use paste.
Grr
post #12 of 26
The white, Hot Universal is a little softer and may be more desirable for hot scraping. Depending on conditions, you may be able to eek out 4 days with the P1, which has a little higher melt paraffin than the Universal.

Isn't the 'Notwax' component of Zardoz, teflon? My understanding is that it simply doesn't adhere as well as a paraffin and it'll require more frequent applications. Like anything, some love it, others don't. My choice would be to go with the paste or cream if in your shoes.

After all this angst, I hope you can just go and have fun on your trip.
post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
As usual, I am now totally confusled !
Some say zardoz drys out the base. Others say it seals it. Some say it's the best thing they've ever used. Others say stay away and just use paste.
Grr
Everyone oversimplifies differently.


Consensus is way over-rated (but controversy may not have basis in fact).
post #14 of 26
Gordon-

RELAX- plenty of skis have survived 3 days without base burn that is worth mentioning-- you need to chill about the care of these bases.

go ski, have fun -- when you get home put em up on the bench and you will be back 100% in less than 1/2 an hour


enjoy your trip
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
Gordon-

RELAX- plenty of skis have survived 3 days without base burn that is worth mentioning-- you need to chill about the care of these bases.

go ski, have fun -- when you get home put em up on the bench and you will be back 100% in less than 1/2 an hour


enjoy your trip
Exactly. On trips of 5 days or less, I usually don't bring waxing equipment as long as the conditions will stay relatively the same on all days. If there is a big swing forecasted, then i might use a universal wax or bring a touch up kit along.

For racing: totally different story.

3 days on a waxed ski will NOT burn the bases.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
Isn't the 'Notwax' component of Zardoz, teflon?
They are both fluorocarbons but different chemically, so not the same. Teflon is of the alkane family of carbon compounds, a "regular" hydrocarbon that is fluorinated (fluorines replace the hydrogens), Zardoz is of the ether family, a carbon chain with an oxygen in the chain of atoms, where again, the hydrogens are replaced by fluorines.
post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor D View Post
They are both fluorocarbons but different chemically, so not the same. Teflon is of the alkane family of carbon compounds, a "regular" hydrocarbon that is fluorinated (fluorines replace the hydrogens), Zardoz is of the ether family, a carbon chain with an oxygen in the chain of atoms, where again, the hydrogens are replaced by fluorines.
So, Dr. D, in non-chemist terms, what are the short and long term effects of Zardoz? Please explain briefly.
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post
So, Dr. D, in non-chemist terms, what are the short and long term effects of Zardoz? Please explain briefly.
The fluoro liquids and wax are kind of like water and oil. They use some chemical tricks to get them to mix, but they can separate. This is the source of the caution against using high fluoros and the claim they clog your base. The base is like a sponge that soaks up the wax with fluoro. As an example, think of a sponge and that is soaked with a well blended oil water mixture. Well it might be ok at first, but repeated infusion of the mixture may create pockets of just oil and just water. So if this happens in your base and there are pockets of fluoro in some of the sponge-like voids in the base, it will be near impossible to flush the fluoro out with wax, hence the clogging.

Any pure fluoro liquid is a candidate to do this, so hot-wax scrape after use.

While on the subject, my high-fluoro waxes use a solid fluoro fiber blended into the wax. The fluoro fiber will not clog the bases.

Did that help?
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor D View Post
Any pure fluoro liquid is a candidate to do this, so hot-wax scrape after use.

While on the subject, my high-fluoro waxes use a solid fluoro fiber blended into the wax. The fluoro fiber will not clog the bases.

Did that help?
It does help, thanks. Now, does the use of Zardoz make the base dry up faster (with base burn)? In other words, once applied and the base is clogged, does the frequent use of it become necessary.
post #20 of 26
Maplus recommends that you always use a paraffin/hydro carbon base wax (ideally, Race Base prep) to protect the bases against drying effect of fluoro.
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post
It does help, thanks. Now, does the use of Zardoz make the base dry up faster (with base burn)? In other words, once applied and the base is clogged, does the frequent use of it become necessary.
What I would guess is that if it was clogged, subsequent additions of wax would be only superficially added and it may dry out faster.
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor D View Post
What I would guess is that if it was clogged, subsequent additions of wax would be only superficially added and it may dry out faster.
I think I'm experiencing that. Any remedy? Or, should I stick with the liquid product from now on?
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanwmr View Post
I think I'm experiencing that. Any remedy? Or, should I stick with the liquid product from now on?
Try some wax cycles with warm rated hydrocarbon wax. Maybe the heating and cooling cycling will work some of it out. It can't hurt, waxing cyles are good for the skis anyway.
post #24 of 26
I'd suggest using a fluoro cleaner, followed by another cleaner and then hot scraping to make sure the fluoro wax is out of the bases. Follow this with a paraffin wax as a base wax on clean bases.

A base grind or sanding & restructuring is another option to remove all the wax and start anew.
post #25 of 26


Indy, if you don't use it how do you know, seal really how much is too much?

    I have skis that are from 1996 original test of zardoz seal, not.  

             100's of applications on those pair. lets see I ski 30 x a yr x 15 years = A lot of applications

 

Your base could be high, crowned etc for one reason,  to cause burn. I never have burn on clear or graphite bases

I race, all kinds of conditions,east and west.

 

Pastes and hard rub ons are too much work that is why I moved from FX4.

 

our test data: http://www.skidome.org

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY GS View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
Okay, well I'm planning to not rewax for 3 days so if I start to see this will rubbing some Zardoz Notwax over the ski help sort the problem?
I would avoid zardoz. I have seen the stuff seal bases when used too much. If you need a touch up, use Swix F4 or rub some regular wax on and cork it in.
post #26 of 26

Here is how to fix it.

Here is how to clean it.

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