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race board upper body position?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
should one square his shoulders to the edge of the board or your toes?
When on a race board
post #2 of 23
Good discussions of this are on bomber and in Vlad's old posts here. I think you mean square to nose or toes, not edge or toes, though.
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
no i said what meant, i know i'm not supposed to try and turn my whole body down the fall line that is big no no. I ride soft boots with my body inline with the board and just turn my head. so my question was on hard boots should i then turn my body the same amount my bindings are turned make sense
post #4 of 23
Makes sense, just the thought of riding alpine with shoulders parallel to the edge of the board is so obviously whack I'd assumed it wasn't what you meant. Some alpine riders still have a more-open stance towards the nose though I agree that's not ideal, so square to nose or toes is the discussion that usually occurs.
post #5 of 23
It would appear that I'm presently employed by this "Vlad", Mr. Kook!
I hope that you get a chance to ride with him, as he is a very communicative and sensitive coach. Some of us know him, simply, as Jay.
Best,
Hem
post #6 of 23
Hem,

He's known as Jay because attempting to pronounce his last name can cause facial spasms to non-native Transylvanians. Please tell him Rusty says hi!
post #7 of 23
Here's one vote for having him back for the snowboard forum at least if he would come back.

Hem, his "sensitive" side always shone through.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
Here's one vote for having him back for the snowboard forum at least if he would come back.

Hem, his "sensitive" side always shone through.
I didn't have a working computer when hem's boss was posting here. I'll second the emotion, sounds like I missed some good stuff.
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
I didn't have a working computer when hem's boss was posting here. I'll second the emotion, sounds like I missed some good stuff.
You know in "A Few Good Men" where Jack Nicholson says to Tom Cruise "You can't handle the truth...?" It was sort of like that.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
You know in "A Few Good Men" where Jack Nicholson says to Tom Cruise "You can't handle the truth...?" It was sort of like that.
To expand on this, a problem experienced generally by internet forums is keeping posters who actually know what they're talking about. As far as snowboarding, you can see a continual, sometimes amusing history of racers in particular participating and then quickly leaving various forums in various ways. And a continual, amusing but irritating history of people who derive a great deal of self-esteem and perceived social status from their participation in those forums being glad when the racers left, precisely because the racers knew what they were talking about: some people can't handle the truth. (On the amusing front, a lot of this second group seem prone to using bold oversized type.)

So far as I'm aware, in this case this dynamic played out in the ski forums, not here. As far as the snowboard discussions I freely admit to being "that guy" who posts a lot and thinks he knows a lot -- though I keep my font size small -- and personally I'd love to have Vlad back. The ski forum is what it is, frankly I like the sense of community there on a social level, but I don't see the reason why the egos there should cost me the benefit of, among other things, Vlad's wealth of technical and historical knowledge about snowboarding. Do you think any of the large-font crowd in the ski discussion even know who Jerry Masterpool is?
post #11 of 23
I apologize for having had any unintentional hand in a "hijack" on this topic. I can only add that on the few occasions when my SSD has mentioned Epic, it's been in a very positive light, and he refers to a "great bunch of people"....he seems to look for the good in folks.
I knew him when he was a young lad, and have recently become reaquainted with him (I am helping him edit his upbeat treatise on Ski/Snowboard instructing, and he's talked me into working for him here in the Czech Republic).
I know little of his online persona, and we argue, incessantly, about the PSIA (I'm a diehard "Pin-Head" from 1964). He insists on teaching children and beginners, daily, so as to lead by example. He has a genuine love for teaching, and speaks little of his past racing career in his present Ski School.
I have seen him sneak out, on some nights, to hit gates on the day's leftover downhill courses when the rest of us are seeking the warmth of the pub for goulash and borscht.
It is a thing to see.
Again, accept my sincere aplogies for the topic "hijack".

Best,
Hem
post #12 of 23
Much new snow, today.
Here's my SSD two weeks ago, at the end of one of his "trademarkedly" humourous clinics, at Spindleruv Mlyn
Hem
post #13 of 23

Alignment

Let's call the alignment i'm about to describe your 'neutral' stance (i'll get to this later). Shoulders/hips perpendicular to the split of the angles of your bindings. So if you're running 65 deg. front and 45 deg. back the split would be around 55 deg. on the front foot. If you're more freestyle oriented and you have 15 deg. front and -9 deg. back foot the split would be around 3 deg. on the front foot. So the split is the point to align the shoulders/hips for the 'neutral' stance.

The reason i'm using the word 'neutral' is that this is a starting point or reference point for movement. You wouldn't ride this way all the time. For example, at the end or finish of turns when riding my hard boot set up, i rotate my shoulders (and hips to some degree) past 'neutral' in the direction of the turn. I'll move back to 'neutral' as i initiate the next turn and again rotate gradually past 'neutral' through the end of the turn. I do though stay more 'nuetral' in general when riding my freestyle set up (except in steeps or bumps).

So alignment is important, but it's not something that someone should be frozen in. People are sometimes encouraged to set up perpendicular to the front foot, but since we use both feet and legs it makes more sense to me to align w/ the split. Enjoy.

JB
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibster View Post
Let's call the alignment i'm about to describe your 'neutral' stance (i'll get to this later). Shoulders/hips perpendicular to the split of the angles of your bindings. So if you're running 65 deg. front and 45 deg. back the split would be around 55 deg. on the front foot. If you're more freestyle oriented and you have 15 deg. front and -9 deg. back foot the split would be around 3 deg. on the front foot. So the split is the point to align the shoulders/hips for the 'neutral' stance.

The reason i'm using the word 'neutral' is that this is a starting point or reference point for movement. You wouldn't ride this way all the time. For example, at the end or finish of turns when riding my hard boot set up, i rotate my shoulders (and hips to some degree) past 'neutral' in the direction of the turn. I'll move back to 'neutral' as i initiate the next turn and again rotate gradually past 'neutral' through the end of the turn. I do though stay more 'nuetral' in general when riding my freestyle set up (except in steeps or bumps).

So alignment is important, but it's not something that someone should be frozen in. People are sometimes encouraged to set up perpendicular to the front foot, but since we use both feet and legs it makes more sense to me to align w/ the split. Enjoy.

JB

Hem
post #15 of 23
I've always agreed that taking a neutral stance is the best way to go, however, I do see the value of "the Norm," as Jack describes it in his aricle on Bomber, and frequently used it with less advanced alpine riders.

but this is a great thread on the topic. pay particular attention to Phil Fell's posts...he is one of the most knowledgable alpine coaches I know...

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti...lder+alignment
post #16 of 23
Have a look at this thread I wrote over at the Ec forum, I don't want to repost the whole thing here, but if you feel like answering here go for it mentioning the pictures from that thread, I'll respond any questions here too.

Watch out though - nearly two megs of pictures in the first post - so don't open on very slow internet connection

http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/...pic.php?t=3556

My take is that you upper body should never be rotated "over" your hips, because you need the possibility to (counter-)rotate with upper body to counteract eventualities caused by the slope. Hips should be rotated or left in natural position depending on what you wan't to achieve. In any case don't continue rotation/counter once initiated into the turn, in order to keep your stability.

For racing allways have hips and shoulders facing the same direction as your boots - "natural position". That's the optimum, but often conditions will require otherwise.
post #17 of 23
I'm with with you EC....

like softboots, you are looking good, neutral alignment. you want to avoid being twisted because it minimizes the ability to respond with a full range of motion...
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremecarver View Post
Have a look at this thread I wrote over at the Ec forum, I don't want to repost the whole thing here, but if you feel like answering here go for it mentioning the pictures from that thread, I'll respond any questions here too.

Watch out though - nearly two megs of pictures in the first post - so don't open on very slow internet connection

http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/...pic.php?t=3556

My take is that you upper body should never be rotated "over" your hips, because you need the possibility to (counter-)rotate with upper body to counteract eventualities caused by the slope. Hips should be rotated or left in natural position depending on what you wan't to achieve. In any case don't continue rotation/counter once initiated into the turn, in order to keep your stability.

For racing allways have hips and shoulders facing the same direction as your boots - "natural position". That's the optimum, but often conditions will require otherwise.
What I've found to be most effective is to obsess less on what my athletes are doing with their upper body, on the rotational axis, and to enforce good recovery primarily from the waist down.

I do not enforce keeping the hips and shoulders facing in the same direction as the boots in racing, setting up for a GS heelside will often require a degree of anticipatory rotation.
post #19 of 23
Is this board on....?
post #20 of 23
Lots of anticipatory rotation in bx too...Orecchio still racing this season?
post #21 of 23
Sir Blake,

We are but a quiet backwater, but now that you're back....
post #22 of 23

Y'all just confused the heck out of me. We are still waiting for our N.C Mtns to get open. Hopefully I will remember how to ride and not think of this thread when I finally hit the hill!smile.gif

post #23 of 23

CarverBoy,

 

The short answer is the square to the toes.

 

Th problem is that this is a too simple answer to a too simple question. Focus on Jibster's post for a more complete answer.

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