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What constitutes "skiing in control"? - Page 4

post #91 of 108
Since you folks are really into this stuff here are some links you may find useful.

http://www.skilaw.com/
http://www.skisafety.com/collisioncases.php

Happy reading

The state laws listed on www.skilaw.com are actually useful. I will be leaving for Wyoming on Sunday

WYOMING Under Wyoming's "Recreation Safety Act," Wyo. Stat. Ann. §§ 1-1-121 to 1-1-123, providers of "sport and recreational opportunities," including skiing and snowmobiling, have no duty to eliminate, alter, or control the "inherent risks" of a particular opportunity, but are responsible for their negligence. Participants assume all "inherent risks," defined as "those dangers or conditions which are characteristic of, intrinsic to, or an integral part of any sport or recreational activity." Skiing in closed or non-designated areas, skiing while intoxicated, leaving the scene of a skiing accident, or skiing with "reckless disregard" for safety are punished as misdemeanors (including jail time in all but the first situation). Wyo. Stat. Ann. §§ 6-9-201, 6-9-301.
post #92 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-turn View Post
disclaimer; I'm a professional and was in complete control. I don't recommend anyone try this maneuver at home.
No you are the one who is lucky. There is no such thing as complete control. If you were a professional you would know that. Stupid people (like those guys jumping the berm) do stupid things, that no justification for going over and ensuring that their stupid behavior has bad consequences. In this case the kid fell. What if he had been injured? Had anything happened you would have been at fault. Risk is about possibilities, you made an intentional and malicious choice to ensure his risk had a bad result. Trying to teach people a lesson, you need one yourself.
post #93 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Even when the view of down hill rider is obstructed becuase of their choice of a location to stand/stop?
The rules of skiing provide protection of the sort that "I was just following the rules therefore I should expect to only be exposed to the inherent risks of skiing and not those additional risks caused by people breaking the rules." My reading is that if party A breaks a rule in a way that negatively affects party B, then party A is responsible for harm done to party B. If both parties break rules then the rules have little to tell us and other rules (LAWS) must be used to determine who is responsible for any harm caused. Probably it will be no fault(each pays their own way) but we don't know with out knowing the rules for the location.

My reading of the rules is that if person A breaks the rules for example by suddenly starting from stop with out looking AND yielding and if A are subsequently collides with person B then in the case that person B is not breaking any other rules then person A is responsible for the accident and harm caused.
post #94 of 108
Skiing in control?

If you can turn where you want to turn (go where you want to go) and stop where you intend to stop you are in control in my mind. The pitch, terrain, speed, or run designation have no bearing on skiing in control.

That being said, accidents will happen involving skiers who are in control of their own skiing, because they are not in control of the numerous other factors (including the other guy) that contribute to accidents. Accidents and collisions will even occur when we ski exactly where we want to and stop exactly where we want to stop simply because **** happens and we are al failable.
post #95 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post
I think the napkin says it best: skiing in control is being able to stop and avoid skiers below you.
You hang out with some pretty wise napkins.
post #96 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2-turn View Post
The second incident was also a wake-up call. I was again GSing down a fairly empty slope whe I saw 2 young snowboarders heading off-trail with the intent of jumping the berm back onto the trail. I saw the first kid jump without looking so I moved to that side of the trail, started doing short radius turns and timed it so I would be in his jump zone just as he was. Just as he was about to jump, I screamed in panic causing him to look up, see me, and fall on the berm. Of course I cold have totally avoided any move on his part, but he didn't know that. I stopped and asked if he was OK, he apologized profusely, and in a feigned shook up voice ( I wasn't in my patrol jacket since I was off duty), proceeded to give him my usual speech concerning blind jumps, spotters, and looking uphill. I can almost guarrantee those 2 kids will never take a blind jmp again.

disclaimer; I'm a professional and was in complete control. I don't recommend anyone try this maneuver at home.
Needlessly macho and just plain stupid.
Were you so in control of the situation that you could guarantee nothing would happen to the kid you caused to fall?

Also: I can imagine a lot of people would have given you a nice beatdown over that. Lucky thing you were picking on kids in such a stupid way, and not a couple of adults.

Your "dislclaimer" sounds a little too macho, too.

I'm very unimpressed by this stunt you pulled.
post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
Needlessly macho and just plain stupid.
Were you so in control of the situation that you could guarantee nothing would happen to the kid you caused to fall?

Also: I can imagine a lot of people would have given you a nice beatdown over that. Lucky thing you were picking on kids in such a stupid way, and not a couple of adults.

Your "dislclaimer" sounds a little too macho, too.

I'm very unimpressed by this stunt you pulled.
Oh, fine. In defense of me. First off, if I was in jacket, I would have skied up to them after they jumped, given them the speech, and they invariably would claim that they did look, and my safety speech would have fallen on deaf ears. Second, I work with kids who build jumps all the time, sometimes I have them knock it down because it's unsafe, or I give them bamboo to mark it, so others don't see it too late. third, I've rewarded kids for safe jumping, either by praise, or hot chocolate coupons. (for example, I was skiing behind a guy who took the most unsafe jump possible, going up the side of a trail and launching back onto the trail. I stopped him, and judging by his posture he expected a lecture, but I could see his surprise when I gave him a cocoa coupon. why? because just before he went up the side, he turned around and looked!!!!) fourth, by kids, I mean anyone under 25.
Back to the incident. I really didn't scream, just let the jumper know I was there, and if he would have looked, he would have seen me and waited to jump. I was probably 15 feet away from him, and if he would have jumped, I could have easily slowed down to avoid him, or turned away, it wasn't a close call. Judging by the way he was boarding into the jump, he probably would have fallen after the jump anyway. and it was so slow speed, he just went to stop when he saw me, and kind of just fell over.
I was just so happy that someone got the message about blind jumping without paying a big price, that I had to post it. For those that don't have a sense of humor, the disclaimer was toungue in cheek, (come on, "don't try this at home") and written to make the statement that I wouldn't recommend this behavior from the general public.
post #98 of 108
I try to stay away from crowded skiing areas as much as possible. What i dont like is when newbs go to the runs where i like to ski to simply put the checkmark that they can ski the "diamond" which is far above their level. When newbs go to runs that they can not handle by any stretch of imagination that is skiing out of control.
post #99 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool View Post
You hang out with some pretty wise napkins.
I base my whole life on their teachings.
post #100 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski-2-fly View Post
Its your fault. You are overtaking a skier below you and should leave room for any maneuver they might do. Period. The end.
Really? So then why is this part in the "Code"?

Quote:
Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
Skier 2 failed to yield. They are at fault.
post #101 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
Really? So then why is this part in the "Code"?

Skier 2 failed to yield. They are at fault.
Being in control is not enough? you mean I have to do all the other stuff too? Sheesh this is hard work! :
post #102 of 108
Helpmykeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeybooooooooooooooooardisoooooutofcontrooooooo oooooool*
post #103 of 108
That was close! Cheated death again!
post #104 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
That was close! Cheated death again!
Close? I thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
*
was a blood stained splat.
post #105 of 108
John, don't call patrol ... it's nothin, a little duct tape will stop the bleeding.

post #106 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC13 View Post
Skiing in control?

If you can turn where you want to turn (go where you want to go) and stop where you intend to stop you are in control in my mind. The pitch, terrain, speed, or run designation have no bearing on skiing in control.
I think the "turn where you want to turn" is an incorrect assumption to make regarding "skiing in control". Accidents occur when you're forced to turn in a place you didn't want to turn. There's a big difference between turning where you want to and where you need to.
post #107 of 108
you know? this is realy big, because the ski partol always yells at me for ski'ing backwards, and messing around, telling me that i have to stay in control. and i am in control, just... backwards.
post #108 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picc84 View Post
because the ski partol always yells at me for ski'ing backwards, and messing around, telling me that i have to stay in control.
That's when I think I would pull to a stop and say "Like this?"

L
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