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describe ski market in your metro area

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I’m interested in how you would characterize the ski/snowriding market in your city/metro area. Not sure if others would find this fun or boring? I’m sure rural and urban areas have some differences.

Here are a few quick, anecdotal, and somewhat random thoughts on my home Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan area, which for the surrounding 30 or 40 miles is fairly sizable, something like 8-9 million population. I think of this area as the southern end of Northeastern US, rather than the northern end of the Southeast.

The following is Arbitrary and highly relative to my specific market:

Casual: probably the majority of our market are people who ski/board less than 5 days per winter. Mostly only ski locally, but could do one trip to distant location.

Avid: a large minority who ski/board 5-15 days per winter, probably a mix of local and distant skiing, might hold a season pass.

Hardcore: a smaller minority are those who ski/board more than 15 days per winter. Likely to hold a pass and ski frequently at local area, also likely to make one or more distant trips.

The Balt-Wash metro area ski market probably has a pretty high average income. All three types, cas/avid/hc could just as likely log their ski days in distant locations (New England, US West, or Europe) rather than limited to local hills. We do have a small number of people who only ski elsewhere because they consider local hills too small, too crowded or poor conditions. Trips to New England probably accomplished by car, but air is also chosen as an option. SLC is probably the fav destination to fly to, with Denver and Tahoe also popular.
Balt-Wash has a number of local ski areas. 2-3 within 90mins for day trips. Another half dozen or so within 3 hours for day or weekend trips, another half dozen within 4.5 hrs for weekend trips. All the areas within this range get light to very light traffic on weekdays.
post #2 of 19
Whats a ski market I mean is that where you can go and see all kinds of skis that were grown at home by some small farms or is it something else I mean your not talking about markets in a way that really means people and how people make choices are you because if you are then your trying just a little too hard to make something really complicated into something really simple and anyone with halfabrain knows thats not possible so what are you talking about huh?
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramshackle View Post
your trying just a little too hard to make something really complicated into something really simple and anyone with halfabrain knows thats not possible so what are you talking about huh?
You're probably right ramshackle and this thread will die.
I’m just curious about the differences in why/how/where people make their choices to ski around the country and the pros and cons of those differences for the vitality of the ski industry. For example, there is Houston where everyone must travel a long way to ski, Wash DC where you have enough local skiing to wet some whistles and strong means & motive to travel to distant locations, Denver where you probably have a higher percentage of avid/hard cores who never need to travel beyond a half dozen gallons of gas if they don’t want.
post #4 of 19
Then of course, what exactly is a "metro area" if the nearest interstate is 2.5 hours away?
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesj View Post
You're probably right ramshackle and this thread will die.
Just to chime in here: yes, there are more than one or two people on this forum who are actually college graduates, and understand the word "market" as you used it.

The question of defining skiing markets is kind of interesting, though I can't claim to have a whole lot of good factual information on it. People who work in the industry presumably do. At least I hope so.

One initial thing to think about, I guess, is the distinction between "local" consumption (day or weekend skiing trips within a few hours driving distance from home) and "destination" consumption (vacation trips, typically involving plane flights or drives long enough to kill a day). Particular geographic markets of consumers (and particular individual consumers) mix the two differently. On the other side of the transaction, different geographic clusters of ski areas (and individual ski areas within those clusters) have different mixes also. Local consumption and destination consumption are, to some extent, two different products, though there's clearly substitution between them.

The whole topic is of obvious interest to people who market ski areas (who, I assume, have a bunch of information on the subject). It may increasingly become a public-policy issue too, I suppose. If consolidation in the industry continues, the issue of definining the "relevant market" for antitrust analysis comes into play more often.
post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post
Just to chime in here: yes, there are more than one or two people on this forum who are actually college graduates, and understand the word "market" as you used it.
Hey now thats almost funny but not as funny as the idea that you didnt even notice that I was joking not serious in my first post and you dont even realize who may have gone to college and maybe even a lot more school than your bad assumption includes there sjjjjjjjjjj guy know what I mean well then maybe you dont since you assumed the wrong thing first time outta the box whos saying your gonna get it right now huh?
post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post
The question of defining skiing markets is kind of interesting
No,not really.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramshackle View Post
Hey now thats almost funny but not as funny as the idea that you didnt even notice that I was joking not serious in my first post and you dont even realize who may have gone to college and maybe even a lot more school than your bad assumption includes there sjjjjjjjjjj guy know what I mean well then maybe you dont since you assumed the wrong thing first time outta the box whos saying your gonna get it right now huh?
Please ... if you've graduated from college, I think we'd all like to know which one. Some of us have children who will go to college at some point, and we certainly want to steer them away from that one. Unless, of course, your inability to write standard English (you know, with sentences that actually end) is some sort of "joke."
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post
Please ... if you've graduated from college, I think we'd all like to know which one. Some of us have children who will go to college at some point, and we certainly want to steer them away from that one. Unless, of course, your inability to write standard English (you know, with sentences that actually end) is some sort of "joke."
Hey it sounds like your eager to tell us all what grand academy you went to sjjjjjj so why dont you just help us all by telling us about your great grades at your grand academy cause Im not sure youd really care about my schools your just lining up a buncha kewpie dolls for knocking down thats what it looks like to me and I dont play skeeball and I dont offer kewpies and I dont collect kewpies but apparently some peoples shirts are stuffed full of kewpie and the collars starched with kewpie dust and anyway I dont think your narrow view of what makes for smarts really has any bearing on how smart someone actually is I mean you can label someone with whatever negative name or phrase you have learned from your great grades at your grand academy but just cause you say something in a way that sounds good to sjjjjj dont make it so.
post #10 of 19
Um ... I don't think you're getting it. In my posts above, I didn't try to draw a distinction between myself and bulk of the posters here, but between the bulk of the posters here and you.
post #11 of 19
Go, SJ!! I really HATE it when someone doesn't even attempt to be intelligible. I keep telling myself this guy is on dope or something and if he ever came out of it maybe he has something to say, but I am truly just an eyelash shy of putting him on permanent "ignore".
post #12 of 19
Dude doesn't believe in punctuation. Get over it.
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Dude doesn't believe in punctuation. Get over it.
Well, punctuation doesn't exist just to keep your English teacher happy. It exists to make the written word intelligible. If you are speaking, and never use inflection or pauses, your speech comes across to others as just babble or some kind of word list, not as communication. When you write, it is no different. You either want to be understood or you want your readers' eyes to glaze over. Evidently, it is not at all important to Ramshackle if he is understood or read. So, why take up database space by posting at all?
post #14 of 19
My advice to you: don't ever read any Kerouac. Especially his later novels.
post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramshackle View Post
Hey it sounds like your eager to tell us all what grand academy you went to sjjjjjj so why dont you just help us all by telling us about your great grades at your grand academy cause Im not sure youd really care about my schools your just lining up a buncha kewpie dolls for knocking down thats what it looks like to me and I dont play skeeball and I dont offer kewpies and I dont collect kewpies but apparently some peoples shirts are stuffed full of kewpie and the collars starched with kewpie dust and anyway I dont think your narrow view of what makes for smarts really has any bearing on how smart someone actually is I mean you can label someone with whatever negative name or phrase you have learned from your great grades at your grand academy but just cause you say something in a way that sounds good to sjjjjj dont make it so.
This has to be the finest of your 167 posts to date. Thanks ,I was rolling as I read this one.
Do you think they starch their shorts in kewpie dust too ? Some folks are so full of kewpieism that they miss the point of discussion. Now what are we talking about here?? Oh yeah a vague question about comparing markets of the skiing public.
post #16 of 19
Thread Starter 
I think Ramshackle's pretty good at rattling cages :-)
I hope I get a chance to do some product sampling in my ski market this weekend!
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjjohnston View Post
Just to chime in here: yes, there are more than one or two people on this forum who are actually college graduates, and understand the word "market" as you used it.
And there are some of us who have college degrees who recognize ramshacklism.

And there are some of us who understand the definition of a metro area, choose not to live in one, see little impact of the metro area markets and do not find the subject all that interesting.

I give this one to ramshackle as a shutout.
post #18 of 19
The ski industry doesn't really define markets the way you described. Although, your characterization of skier types fairly accurately describes most urban markets. The ski industry tends to break skiers down by demographics (age, income, etc) and now using the trendy word "psychographics" (passion, motivations for skiing, etc). Then you break those down into destination guests vs. day trippers. All those get marketed to separately.
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
My advice to you: don't ever read any Kerouac. Especially his later novels.
Man hey Jer if your shirts stuffed with kewpie dolls and starched with kewpie dust Im pretty sure you dont read Kerouac more like Dr Phil or maybe if your really bold some Erma Bombeck or maybe Vanna Whites autobiography cuz thats what they teach you is important at the great grade classes in the grand academy of kewpie dust starchies.

And hey Harry Morgan I wasnt trying to win or shut out anyone but hey thanks for that funny kinda compliment there buddy your obviously not a graduate of the grand academy of kewpie dust starchies.
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