EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › People skinning, snowshoeing up open runs?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

People skinning, snowshoeing up open runs? - Page 2

post #31 of 51
Heck, if I didn't have 80 bucks and needed to go skiing, I would hike up too.
post #32 of 51
You know, it's not exactly true that if it's forest service land there is nothing the resort can do. The resort holds the permit for certain periods of the year and if they deem that things are impeding their operations they can cite you for trespass. You can't just go out and sled while the groomers are working just because it's usfs land, and if they want to kick off a skinner, they can. That being said, most patrols will just ask skinners/snowshoes to stay on the side of a trail out of the way.
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
Lift tickets cost $80+ and a lot of mountains only check tickets at the lifts which start at the bottom. As a dirt poor student, I understand why somebody would skin up the minimum distance to reach the "free" lifts, especially if that is where they plan to spend their whole day. If I had an AT setup + skins I wouldn't hesitate to do it.
That's theft of service and not a very honorable thing to do.
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tooslow View Post
That's theft of service and not a very honorable thing to do.
Oh, no!:
post #35 of 51
Hang those scurvy dogs from the bullwheel!
post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_Morgan View Post
Gaperish? Got news for you... the owner of our local hill - who was recently featured in Powder - routinely snowshoes up the trails and has for as long as I've been skiing here. People often skin up one of the cat tracks, as it is the access into 30,000 acres of prime backcountry. Others snowshoe across the area to get at the ice climbing in the middle of the area. Anyone of them is a whole lot less gaperish than the overwhelming majority of lift riders.
There are also numerous stories of Duncan making bets with poachers that they couldnt beat him up the mtn. If he won, you paid the fine, if the poacher won, than they got off.

I think that you should all remember the skier's code. Those down hill from you have the right away. It doesnt matter if they are going uphill or down hill.
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbakerskier View Post
T
I think that you should all remember the skier's code. Those down hill from you have the right away. It doesnt matter if they are going uphill or down hill.
Yes, but they changed the code to "those ahead of you ahve the right of way". Now they are both at fault. Helm's a lee anyone:
post #38 of 51
I ran into this last week at Moonlight - I thought it was a good idea for training. I'll be doing it back here in MN, but probably not at a resort. I can see how that can be a little problematic - the guy coming up certainly surprised me.
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
You know, it's not exactly true that if it's forest service land there is nothing the resort can do.
Yes, they could kick off (or restrict) a skinner for a legitimate safety reason, but not just because they feel like it.

In the interests of completeness, I believe there are a few other situations in which the area could object. For example, I think the area could object if the someone were charging guests to lead skinning or snowshoeing expeditions (indeed, the FS would want the area to object, and to collect the FS's piece of the fee).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tooslow
That's theft of service and not a very honorable thing to do.
Agreed, on both counts. In at least one state, "use of ski area facilities" is specifically referred to in the theft-of-services statute. It's a gross misdemeanor -- maybe not the worst thing in the world, but a lot worse than paying for a ticket. If the aggregate value stolen is $75, it's a felony.
post #40 of 51
danimal: Often I encounter these people skinning up right in my line, it annoys me and I often spray them with snow as I go by, sometimes I even try to scare them. Sorry, it is gaperish, and really lame.

Actually it is "gaperish and lame" to spray them and try to scare them. Grow up!
post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdr View Post
OK, gotta speak up here. Although skinning/hiking/snowshoeing up a ski run is gaperish, there is NO LAW forbidding this activity on FS land. You have NO MORE RIGHTS as a paying customer than does the freeloader. It is everyone's PUBLIC land. The ski areas use the land under a conditional use permit, it is not their land either. Get over it.

Powdr
I agree that there is "NO LAW" to stop this from happening but here (Aspen) there are rules that govern "uphill traffic". You have to follow them, and somedays you cannot go uphill before the mountain opens.

For example:

Up hill traffic on aspen mountain has to be above the bottom of lift 3 before 830am. this allows those people to be at the top by 9am when the mountain opens. During storm days you are not allowed to go uphill (to beat someone to freshtracks) due to avy control work or the possibility of that. You can always access the top of Aspen mountain by using the public roads on the back side, but most just wait for the lifts.

Most people I know that do skin up the ski mountain, do it for excersise. I very rarely ever run into uphill traffic when I am skiing downhill
post #42 of 51
Don't know about USFS but in the case of a state forest I know, the portion of the SF with the ski trails is leased to a company during ski season. You emphatically can not use the trails without a ticket. You can hike the hiking trails in the woods up or down. You can not hike up the ski trails nor can you hike up the elsewhere and ski down the ski trails.

It may not sound fair that public land is restricted like that but think about a while. 90% of the snow is man-made at the area's expense. It's groomed at the areas expense. If you get hurt, a ski patrol that funded by the area (even if many members are volunteers there are still lots of expenses) is going to bog you down. Also think about the money the area pays to the state for the lease. The money goes into purchasing land elsewhere in the state that then conserved for public use.
post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Oh, no!:
I could tell you were a class act.
post #44 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tooslow View Post
You could just as easily be encountering a fallen skier when you come around a corner. I don't think they should be in the middle of a trail. Off to one side should make everyone happy. As long as they buy a ticket, Why not?
No!! Not off to the side!!

That's where I ski.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by lloyd braun View Post
I agree that there is "NO LAW" to stop this from happening but here (Aspen) there are rules that govern "uphill traffic". You have to follow them, and somedays you cannot go uphill before the mountain opens.

For example:

Up hill traffic on aspen mountain has to be above the bottom of lift 3 before 830am. this allows those people to be at the top by 9am when the mountain opens. During storm days you are not allowed to go uphill (to beat someone to freshtracks) due to avy control work or the possibility of that. You can always access the top of Aspen mountain by using the public roads on the back side, but most just wait for the lifts.

Most people I know that do skin up the ski mountain, do it for excersise. I very rarely ever run into uphill traffic when I am skiing downhill
Ajax was the first place I saw people doing it (going uphill) back in the early 90's, and I thought it was a little weird at the time. Nowadays, many resorts are running snowshoe tours of the runs, and making money at the endeavor.
post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
Lift tickets cost $80+ and a lot of mountains only check tickets at the lifts which start at the bottom. As a dirt poor student, I understand why somebody would skin up the minimum distance to reach the "free" lifts, especially if that is where they plan to spend their whole day. If I had an AT setup + skins I wouldn't hesitate to do it.
Where I worked we were "alerted" when people were skinning/hiking up, & we started checking tickets at all lifts.
Skinning up runs is fairly normal at most Colorado ski areas. It seems like a fair trade off for the use of public lands by private corporations.
But don't expect to avoid buying a ticket to use lifts. It's easy to see & stop.
post #47 of 51
I think the policy on National Forests must vary with the use permit. Ski area operators lease these lands and I think have a right to ask people to leave if they are posing a safety hazard. I think they may also be entitled to require people using trails they have created, made snow on, groomed and maintained to purchase tickets. While these are commonly referred to as "lift tickets", they are really "use tickets" which entitle skiers to use the facilities of a ski area. Thats my recollection anyhow. I used to teach at an area within the National Forest and I seem to recall that only on certain beginner slopes were people allowed to use the facilities without purchasing a ticket. Even there though I seem to recall they weresupposed to obtain a free ticket in the fine print of which they agree to abide by certain conditions. Can you imagine maintaining liability insurance for a ski area without being able to exert this kind of control, being unable to close off terrain that was unsafe etc.?
post #48 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnM View Post
Where I worked we were "alerted" when people were skinning/hiking up, & we started checking tickets at all lifts...
Yeah right.: No way in hell do most ski areas have the staff to do this. Between lean staffing and lazy lifties, mosst lifts only have one person loading at the bottom terminal and they simply can not check tickets and load at the same time. It's hard enought to staff a ticket checker at the base lifts at many resorts.
post #49 of 51
At the mountain where I used to work, I'd come up to lifties basically chanting "Please God, let a ticket scammer come right now. I need to eat" at the lift chair where they were loading people. They all actively looked for forged tickets, and people using other people's season passes. They got a $50.00 reward for each fradulent use and got to eat dinner that night. I saw quite a few season passes confiscated by lifties. I don't know the reward system for my current resort.
post #50 of 51

I was just thinking can someone point me to a list of FS land ski resorts? I'm thinking hiking is the best pre-season exercise I can do, and to top it off you can ski for free? Win - Win! ( I'll end up buy a lift ticket after 2 hikes... 3 tops)

 

Also, know your skier responsibility code, "People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them." it doesn't specify direction of travel. If you can't aviod them safely then technically you're not skilled enough for that particular terrain. Oh Snap!

duel.gif

 

Of course #3 on the list could also be argued if you're not visible, but technically you're less than stopped you're negative stopped, so we'll have to review the footage from the helmet cams to deirmine fault.

snowfight.gif

 

It's early in the season so below is the refesher for all you gapers. It applies with or witout a lift ticket (except for the last one)

 

  • Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.
  • People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.
  • You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.
  • Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.
  • Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.
  • Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.
  • Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.
post #51 of 51

There is still uphill traffic allowed at Whitefish.  Pretty sure most of the uphill policies are specific to the particular resort.  Ours is here.  I BELIEVE, but I could be wrong, that we are the only ski resort in Montana currently allowing this.  (All chime in now, telling me otherwise....)

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › People skinning, snowshoeing up open runs?