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The Re-Emergence (?) of Boot Top Spiral Fractures - Page 6

post #151 of 164
I'm sure planning on coming up to Vail on the 6th.

Unfortunately my MRI had to be postponed until next Wednesday. They're also thinking that there's too much metal in my leg to get a clear image. They may need to use an ultrasound of my leg to figure out whether or not the tendon is attached.
post #152 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
I'm sure planning on coming up to Vail on the 6th.

Unfortunately my MRI had to be postponed until next Wednesday. They're also thinking that there's too much metal in my leg to get a clear image. They may need to use an ultrasound of my leg to figure out whether or not the tendon is attached.
Great, I will look forward to seeing you there. Until then don't let them get you down too much, if it is the tendon then you may have another operation to reattach it.
post #153 of 164
I think this short video shows the setup for the tib-fib fracture well. Imagine this same crash with shorter skis with more shape. These skis are very straight and fairly long. I'd like to hear what you see in this. The skier never changes direction and is approaching the camera from right to left. He catches the outside edge of the left (downhill) ski immediately during transition and is thrown hard forward. The skier is able to cross over the skis, momentarily standing on the right ski which is 90 degrees to his original direction of travel. He avoids injury although the ski does not release. Could this be because the ski is too long to cross under?

Snow Snakes

This is from the Picking things Apart thread that was recently nominated by LindaA for Classic Thread status.

Too bad the video quality isn't a bit better, but the mechanism of a ski crossing under is clear.
post #154 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
I think this short video shows the setup for the tib-fib fracture well. Imagine this same crash with shorter skis with more shape. These skis are very straight and fairly long. I'd like to hear what you see in this. The skier never changes direction and is approaching the camera from right to left. He catches the outside edge of the left (downhill) ski immediately during transition and is thrown hard forward. The skier is able to cross over the skis, momentarily standing on the right ski which is 90 degrees to his original direction of travel. He avoids injury although the ski does not release. Could this be because the ski is too long to cross under?

Snow Snakes

This is from the Picking things Apart thread that was recently nominated by LindaA for Classic Thread status.

Too bad the video quality isn't a bit better, but the mechanism of a ski crossing under is clear.
The video is pretty fast, is there any way to slow it down?

What I see is an inside tip catching but on the snow so without the cross over tip aspect as originally posted in this thread. You also definitely notice that the bindings do not release which reinforces the whole idea that a binding redesign may be in order. My guess is that an older design like the Spademan might have released in this fall, it looked a little like a ballet turn gone wrong. The snow is going to be softer than the ski tip, so there has to be at least a little give here, but the fall definitely looks painful, like the kind of thing that could rip tendons and ligaments.
post #155 of 164
Hi folks. Been a lurker on here for quite a long time. Just a pity this is the thread that gets my first post


I remembered the thread title from my hospital bed in Sellanches (Chamonix) and checked it out on my return, and there's lots that rings painfully true.


I'm not sure if I've been skiing for 42 years or 43...but more than 40 anyway! Started in Scotland (where I still live) on lace up leather boots and cable bindings. And even through the idiot days of the 70s watching American ski movies then going out to try helicopters and leg-breakers on 205s I still remained unscathed until.....


The first 'shaped' skis to tempt me off 'conventional' boards were a pair of Volkl P40s. I bought them in 2000 and skied them loads...Whistler, Vail, A-Basin, Aspen, Copper, Kitzbuhell, Wengen, Murren...and of course Scotland. I had always skied a real 'tight' style with knees and ankles locked together and tips rubbing. This always worked fine on long skis, and suited the P40s fine too, although I did ski a bit 'wider' in bumps and in powder.


But earlier this year I thought the P40s needed retiring, and since I had a soft spot for Volkls, and the reports on this forum all seemed to rate the AC4, a new pair of AC4s it was.


First day I skied then was in Scotland; not a lot of snow but what we had was fresh, deep and drifted and these things rocked! Way better than the P40s in powder (and on a wide) stance.


No more snow here so I went to Chamonix. I couldn't get a guide for the first day so started on pisted runs...and the tips kept 'catching together'. Not sure what ski was above the other, but in a smooth tight stance carved turn the inside ski would 'lock' for an instant and you'd have to be quick to use brute force to pull it out from the outside ski. I was blaming the 'buffers' at the tips for getting locked together. But later in the afternoon I found some fresh stuff and the skis ran great.


Did a few days with a guide and again through soft stuff, crud, powder, steeps the skis were amazing. But, skiing back to a lift line in the piste I was still getting instances of the inside ski 'locking' at the tip. But recovered each one.


Then I thought I'd do an easy day in Courmayer. After messing about in some freshies we skied back on the piste and lifted the speed. Then, through a right hand fully carved (tight stance) turn, just as I passed through the fall like the inside (right) ski basically just blew me out. I didn't fall (until the blow-out), I wasn't out of balance, this was just another of a series of linked carved turns and I was eyeing up the next left-hander. All I felt was a huge bang on my shin, I knew instantly the tibia had gone so I kind of crumpled and fell and tumbled, and at that point both skis released.


Turns out it is both tib and fib. Got a plate in, and just got back to the UK yesterday. As an aside, I have to compliment the French hospital system; real efficient, so much attention, even the food's OK (and we could see ski runs and what I think was the side of Mont Blanc out the window).


Anyway, apart from being in a bit of pain I'm real angry about this. I'm convinced it was the combination of my 'old-school' close-together stance and heavily shaped skis. Us Scots/Brits don't get the litigious reputation of you folks in the US of A, but this has me really annoyed. I know what sort of ski style I have; but there is no information published (that I'm aware of) that says certain skis are suited (or not suited) to different styles. You do get recommendations for piste/powder/bumps whatever, but get that wrong and the worst is you maybe struggle in the powder. But get the choice of a 'must be skied wide' ski wrong and you break your d@mned leg.


I've certainly no intention of skiing the AC4s again - they'll be up on Ebay - skied 6 days only! What I'll be looking for will be something that is safer with a 'tight' stance, and to me I now know this doesn't necessarily mean a narrow ski, it means one that isn't so 'shaped', and certainly doesn't have any sort of buffer/bumper at the tip.


As it stands, I'm convinced [certain] shaped skis and a narrow stance are an accident waiting to happen. And there's no information with the ski saying this is the case. Grrrrr.
post #156 of 164
Tvrolet, welcome to Epic. Sorry about the circumstances. Feel free to use the forum to keep us advised of your rehab progress, and don't be a stranger.
post #157 of 164
I had a fall just like this one on Dec 23. Fortunately my binding toe released and I ended up with just a sprained ankle. I was on a pair of 191 Scott P4s skiing lazily but fast down a soft groomer. Bindings PX12 set to 8.
post #158 of 164
Is no one is blaming the binding DIN?

What level was the binding set at? Type II, III or III+?

IMO, this is the most important detail.
post #159 of 164
The snow-snakes video shows the method of injury for what is known as a Maissoneuve fracture. Very strong external rotation. Fortunately, the skier went over the handle bars. Had his mass followed the left ski, he'd have probably broken his leg.
post #160 of 164
Another observation:

For those that consider ramp/delta angle changes, consider that toe lift will cause increased shovel pressure, which may not be what you want to have, depending on where and what you ski.

If you are skiing crud and powder with short radius skis I suspect that this increased shovel pressure can have a very pronounced effect on the grabbyness of the shovels. This will increase the likelyhood of such an injury occurring. Same as well, if you are skiing long with high shovel pressures.

It is best to select ramp and delta so that your natural stance is centered over the foot. Beware when changing this feature, as going from high ramp to low will provide more shovel pressure than was othewise available.
post #161 of 164
I have read this thread with interest.

My wife is recovering from a tib/fib platea fracture of her right leg sustained at vail on Dec. 3. Simlar forces but in addtion to tourquing involved driving the knee into the socket at the top or the tib/fib. Thus, fractured the tib fib vertically and fracture/smashed the knee.

She can't even recall which direction she was turning, but is was a slow speed fall and she caught an edge. The ski on the injured leg did not release, the ski on the left leg did release. I believe the din settings were low, level 2, and suspect the forces applied where at an angle that the bindings would not release.
post #162 of 164
It looks to me like type 2 is not that low after all.

In a slow fall type I would be far more preferable, especially once you are 50 (or pushing it), when type II becomes reset as type I anyway.
post #163 of 164

I though I'd bump this four-year-old thread and get some contemporary thoughts on this matter.  Ski technology and styles, have generally moved in a different direction.  The emphasis is on more freestyle type skiing rather than carving, and skis are wider, longer and straighter.  I don't recall seeing anything like the rash of spiral boot-top fractures that occurred between 2004 and 2007.  We have see more knee injuries and even bone injuries much higher due to impacts and falls. 

 

This was an interesting, albeit grizzly episode in Epicski history, and I thought I'd get a retrospective.  Some skiers still predominately carve, but we are not seeing this particular injury.  I could be wrong, but I think ski shapes have backed off and gotten longer, and many skis are being manufactured with less camber or even early-rise and reverse.  Problem solved?

post #164 of 164

I find it particularly ironic that this thread was bumped today.  Today I skied with Ric (VSP) at Vail and of course we discussed the injuries and life beyond those dark days.

 

Cirque - I think I would buy into your theory.  The trends definitely have swung in a different direction and although we don't have any true scientific statistics, the experience of this forum would bear out the idea that there has been a decline.  I wonder if anyone has some solid data on this.

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