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Different tracks for different horses

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

just started riding my K2 seth viscious and love them. I am a level 9 skier who is comfortable in all terrain, but have recently noticed problems with my outside edge control on wider skis. Right at the point when I am finishing turns my outside ski angles in on the other creating wash rather than a clean groove. Maybe the easiest way to visualise it is to imagine my ski's breaking out of parallel and making a small 'pizza slice' for an instant right at the end of the turn...

the reason why i am seeking advice is because i have noticed alot of young skiers opting for +95mm skis as all mountain skis; trying to make them jump, carve and dance short radius turns in all conditions. So my question: is it the tool or just a lapse in my technique (if so what), and can a +95mm wide ski really be made to carve efficient short radius turns or is it a case of different tracks for different horses?

bit lenghty but cheers
post #2 of 11

Please don't play the ponies!

Tom,

I don't have the facts in front of me, but it's my recollection that wider skis tend to have larger turn radii. They don't necessarily have to be that way. In theory a wider ski only means you are going to need a slightly longer amount of time to change from edge to edge. This could be compensated for by fattening the tip and tail to get a short radius sidecut, but the old Elan SCX's proved the marketability of skis that resembled clown feet. Even slalom skis have to be skidded through 30 foot radius turns. There are no race tracks for miniature ponies.

Having a wedge creep in to your turns, even a very brief tiny one is symptomatic of a technique issue (IMHO). Having a wedge appear at turn completion/initiation is a common issue. Common contributing factors include weight in the back seat, too much steering of the outside foot, too much leaning of the upper body and not enough movement of the hips. For a tiny wedge, these would need to be "tiny" contributing factors. On the other hand, I've seen wedges appear in frame by frame analysis of high end skiing that looked top notch when viewed at full speed. This would not necessarily be something worth "fixing", especially if the problem goes away on other gear. Have you considered checking things during a demo day?

If you want to get the most accurate analysis from the Bears, you should get videoed.
post #3 of 11
Tom, two questions, what type of snow conditions are you experiencing this, and does this happen all the time, or typically later in the day?

The biggest thing that I have noticed when skiing wider skis (around 100mm underfoot) is the need to go a little bit tigher on the upper of my boot (this is to counter that natural tendency for the ski to want to be flat and try to torque my knee to get flat).

Also, consider that the sidecut of the Vicious was based on snowboards, it will be slightly different (I know on my Vicious, they feel like very much like a snowboarding skarve on hardpack).
post #4 of 11
Tom on a wider ski the center of your foot is much farther from the line of force directed at the inside edge of the outside ski. This fact will exasperate any tendency to pronate inside the boot. The result of increased pronation is needing to tuck the outside knee in to compensate and a resulting small wedge (A framing).

If you are truely a 9 skier then I would suspect equipment is at least partially to blame for your troubles. Do you have good boots, footbeds and alignment? Keep in mind though that even with good boots, footbeds and alignment, some people are more prone to this problem than others.
post #5 of 11
Tom,

Nice answers above. Are you trying to hang on to the edge too long in the turn?? After you pass the apex of the radius (or fall line), you need to start to deminish the edge angle a little and keep moving with the ski along it's path. The increased edge angle after passing the fall line will cause the tip of the ski to climb faster than the inside ski tip and cause a wedge. After the fall line, soften your edge angle and stay soft on your skis, but moving with them.

RW
post #6 of 11
A shot in the dark:
Could alslo be too much rotation late in the turn, perhaps caused by excessive tip pressure, causnig the tail to just slightly break away. Often happensfrom an effort to generate some extra speed or force to unweight or rushing to get to the other inside edge during transition.

I suggest that you have some patience during transition, and perhaps begin your weight transfer to the new outside ski earlier. Try exitting the previous turn with the bulk of your weight on the uphill ski, and do not press on the outside ski for that extra "oomph" during the transfer. Instead, relax the outside ski and more strongly engage the inside ski as the weight transfers to the uphill ski.

You'll figure out an optimum speed of weight transfer and when it should occur given the conditions, and your intent. Work towards a progressive transfer, with no abrupt moves.

Hope this helps.
post #7 of 11
Hey a question for everyone here say if someone is a true Level 9 and if Level 9 is as high a skill level as someone can get then how can someone get to that level with bad technique or alignment huh cuz it sounds to me like skier calls himself Level 9 based on what trails he skis rather than what are his skills but thats just what I see in his post not what I have seen in his skiing Ive never seen him ski he might be better than Bode who knows.
post #8 of 11
Good question Ram,

First off there are differing definitions of what a level 9 is. For purpose of this discussion, let's just call it "able to comfortably ski all slopes under all conditions. There's no reason why this can't be done with minor inefficiencies in technique.

Second, no matter how good you are, there will always be room for improvement. The "level" system is simply a means of classification for assigning people into lesson groups. Under the level system, even Bode Miller would be a level 9. Bode uses coaching to help him improve.

Lastly, Tom's question is "is it the gear or is it me". Although one mark of top level skiers is that they can coax the most performance out of subpar gear, gear induced technique flaws can happen to anyone. In Tom's case, it is possible that his previous gear helped to hide a technique flaw that his new gear is exposing.
post #9 of 11
So therusty,it's still the Indian and not the Arrow.
post #10 of 11
It could be either, but MOST of the time, for this problem, it is the Indian. I thought everyone knew that Indians can't .... oops, ahem, nope, don't go there, wouldn't be prudent.
post #11 of 11
be carefull, TR, lol
It takes me a few runs to get used to different skis such as a mid fat, to a GS to a slalom. I have to change my blend of skills, timing in the transition, ect.

RW
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