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Maplus Wax Test - Page 4

post #91 of 131
Skier: me
Skis: Metron B5

DAY 1: 3/04/07

Sugarloaf, Maine.

18" day old powder.

I waxed on Friday with two coats of hard base. I started out by just dumping a little on the ski and spreading it with the brush, then I decided that this was jsut going to make a mess on my coffee table. I switched to cramming half the brush into the bottle far enough to wick up some wax, then I brushed it on. After waiting for the first coat to dry (~15 min), corked & brushed until glossy. Repeated for a second coat. Next I applied the P1 spray by spraying a small section at a time (tip, mid, tail) and corking as I went. After waiting for the wax to dry, I brushed until shiny, then buffed with a terry cloth.

I switched cars last minute before I left, unfortunately I forget the wax supplies in my trunk. Air temperature at the base was 29F at 8:00 am and 32F at 4:00pm.

The wax was great! 10/10 in my book. Glide and overall speed were great the entire morning, found myself zipping past many people in the flats, a little skating went a long way. I got into a conversation with a gentlemen on the lift about "high fluoride waxes" and waxing for his races, flew by him on a long traverse.

Around 11am or so, when the sun finally broke through, I could tell that the snow temp was at the upper limit of the wax. I got a little slower, but still not anything to complain about. I had intended to overlay with Universal, but had forgotten it. As soon as the sun went behind the mountain, then I immediately noticed the better glide return.

When I stopped at the end of the day, the bases still looked well saturated and glossy. There was no whitish haze this time around, I'm not sure if this was due to the 2 coats of hard base, or the softer snow conditions. Plenty of wax for another day.

DAY 2: 3/05/07

Sunday River, Maine

3-5" fresh, groomed/packed powder, 24"+ windblown.

Remembered the thermometer this time.
Snow temp -10C at summit.

I started the day with the same wax as yesterday, still plenty fast, if not faster. Why did they groom out the 5" fresh from last night? Caused me to go find the windblown/leftovers from the previous storm. Wax performed awesome all morning.

Around 12 I decided to head across the mountain for a few runs, so I stopped and checked the temperature again. Snow temp at mid-mountain was -2C, I decided to do a quick overlay of universal. I didn't have a brush with me, so the first run was a bit slow. After that, the glide returned. I'm glad I used it, going across the mountain involved a lot of groomed flats, and the snow was quite sticky. The universal gave me a great glide, and I was again passing people.

The highlight of the day came when I was coming down a trail (in Oz, for anyone familiar with the river). Top was windblown powder on skiers left, with sparse trees. I mad a few turns, cut around a tree, and stopped dead as I turned/fell into waste deep powder. The skis stopped, but I didn't. It was the first time I've ever had to dig for a ski .

Back to the wax. Overall, I am really impressed. The durability appears to be excellent; I could easy get a third day out of the wax that i have put on. The procedure to apply the liquid is very straightforward, almost foolproof. Compared to some of the elaborate wax jobs that were described to me over the two days, the Maplus liquid was far superior.

A few general observations. When I opened the Hard Base for the second time, there was some solid in the bottle. I closed it back up, shook it up, and most of it seemed to dissolve. The sprays seem to be a little stubborn time to time, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the Universal sprayed fine after being in my breast pocket for the morning. I think some sort of a sponge/felt applicator might work better then the spray.
So far I have gotten at least three coats, if not four, out of the Hard Base sample, with enough for at least one more.

Temps today were below zero all day, and wind chills far below zero, even if I didn't have to work I wouldn't be out skiing. i might make one more trip next weekend before I need to be back to school, otherwise my season is over. I will definatly continue to use the Maplus wax, i don't think I could ever beat the ease of application or the results with a traditional waxing, plus I don't have to by an iron this way.

Thanks for the opportunity to test a great product.
post #92 of 131
Hmm. According to my notes, I have only waxed one ski with the liquid, one coat, and the bottlle now looks less than half full. I guess I put too much on or pouring the wax on the brush is a wasteful though goof-proof method of applying. Just a word of warning to the other testers. Sorry if that was a bad suggestion. I never claimed to know what I was talking about.
post #93 of 131
Sorry telerod, It's been a hectic weekend and I forgot exactly how I applied the wax.

The first time around, I did the dump and spread method. This time around I stuck half the brush in the bottle, let it soak up some wax, then spread it around.
post #94 of 131
Well, you are spreading it more efficiently than I am. After reading your edited post, I think skier219's suggestion to use a little paint cup might be the best way to go.
post #95 of 131

Fwiw

I used 3 capfuls of the HB per coat for a pair of 180cm 95mm waist Explosivs with the squeegee method. The brayer method was faster but not more efficient.

5 pairs of skis and 2 snowboards there's still quite a bit (almost half) left.
post #96 of 131
Thread Starter 

Sponge cap applicator

Prior to a little lunchtime jaunt, I applied some Maplus Universal LF Super Glide with sponge applicator cap (similar to the Maplus Universal LF Liquid). I'd put this as about as brainless and simple as it gets. With the applicator cap, there is no mess, overspray or brush to deal with, and it is very easy to control the amount of liquid applied to the base while working it in with the sponge, followed by a cork.

Anyone know of good sources for similar type caps to use with liquid wax containers for bulk use and reuse?

krp8128, do you think that temperature played a roll in the spray clogs & RB hard solidification? Do you have the older spray (short) canisters or the new (taller) ones? (Ie, see MWN0202 (short) versus MWN0103 (taller).)

Thanks for your thorough input.
post #97 of 131
Tester: Trekchick
Temp 26F
Skis:Nordica Nitrous 170cm, Volkl Race Tiger RC 168cm


Wax application on Nitrous:
I put a base on with the purple hard wax(hot wax application). OMG that stuff is time consuming to apply, but I wanted to make sure I did the product a proper test. I then applied the spray wax for appropriate temperature and brushed into the ski.
The conditions started out with 12F temps and warmed to 26F - ish temps. This wax kept me sliding right through the entire day. I started on this ski after giving the race tigers a few hours on the snow, and didn't quit until 6 PM. When I quit, I checked the bases to see how the wax base held up and was pleased to find it did exactly what it was supposed to do. I expect to get several more ski days out of this base, with the appropriate spray or liquid applied for temp specifics.

Wax application for Race Tigers:
I was curious how the liquid wax would perform in relation to the spray and hard wax applicaitons, so I poured a bit of the liquid in a plastic cup and used the brush to apply evenly.
I went to get my coffee going, then came back to brush and cork the bases. I was very pleased to find the performance of this to be as effective as if I'd spent the time to hot wax with my old typical waxes, and spent a fraction of the time.
I spent the first two hours of the day on the race tigers before the sun really hit the slopes much. This wax didn't miss a beat. I wonder if it will hold up to the long days on the slopes, but then I need to test that also. Look for more on this later.

Thus far, I like the liquid for the simplicity of use, I'm amazed at how well the spray wax holds up to the day, and the hard wax is amazing to apply for long term use.
post #98 of 131
Aren't these spray-on waxes intended for quick fixes at race-time when it's obvious the tech messed up or the snow changed unexpectedly?

Are these really built to last all day, or just one run and re-apply?
post #99 of 131
I believe that the purpose of this wax test has been to prove to people that even though the wax may be a spray-on or liquid, it has a durability and absorption qualities that rival a traditional hot wax.

I haven't tried any of this myself since I'm new to tuning, but I certainly plan to.

-Bonta
post #100 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Well, you are spreading it more efficiently than I am. After reading your edited post, I think skier219's suggestion to use a little paint cup might be the best way to go.
Ok, I overlooked Comprex's squeegee method which sounds awesome efficient. Do I need a narrow squeegee?
post #101 of 131
Here in Steamboat I brought out the brush on waxes, the universal and warm weather. I have been using teh warm wax and it has been great, holding up to the course spring snow. I tool out the Seths yesterday and I really missed them not being waxed (I should have waxed at lunch, I forgot). I waxed them last night so I will post a review on them later today. So far I have been impressed with the durability, one of my main concerns with a wax of this nature.
post #102 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Are these really built to last all day, or just one run and re-apply?
On Utah snow the HB prep (no wax of the day) and the R1 uni seemed to last a full 2 days. Around here, less, but that's not remotely surprising. Longer lasting than Zardoz, though, by a fair bit.

I am actually much -more- pleased with the purple hot wax as it replaces the gimmicky CH4/CH6 combinations I've used for sub-20F manmade snow.

telerod, no, I've a car window one.
post #103 of 131

Wax Test

MARCH 8TH 2007.

Where: Silver Mt. Idaho, air temp 40-47, snow 29 to 30, 2-4 of powder several days old off piste.

Gear: Fischer Race RC 170

Wax: Universal hot wax. Skis were edge damaged AND had some medium gouges in bases. Stripped down and clearned bases, used P Tex on most of base damage, fixed/filed eges and bevel side and base. Hot waxed with universal, let dry 30 min, scraped and brushed with horsehair brush, polished with special cloth, horsehair brush again, polished again.

Skiing: Immediate glide, excellent 9 on a scale of 1-10, held up all day and plenty left for another day. Spring conditiions, skied groomer and off piste, section of resort that had been closed for 2 weeks opened and had some ok off piste conditions, 2-4 in. of settled powder not bad though.

Opinions. So far this application has been the most rewarding (hot wax with universal, brush etc.) Haven't really had the cold snow condiitons that we had before wax arrived (Nov Dec early JAN) Probably have to wait for next year, warming up here.
post #104 of 131
March 8 Sugar Bowl, CA
We were doing steeps instruction with Wade Holiday. Snow included a dusting of new, over consolidated refrozen. As the day warmed from the low 30s to the mid-50s the snow turned into consistently warm high moisture melting snow, and evolved to corn in the late afternoon during re-freezing in the shade.

Running into the apron off a steep run my skis stuck and just about flung me forward. I have rarely experienced such extreme sticking as the snow warmed. It felt like skiing onto a rubber mat. I was carrying a MaPlus P1 Spray Hot wax. About 11:00 AM before reloading at the lift I wiped down the base, sprayed the wax and spread it and rubbed in by hand. No brush or cork available. After letting it dry, we loaded back on the lift. On the next run as we hit the flats I literally flew by Wade and Jim who were on skis prepared with a "shop wax". The application lasted to the closing bell.
post #105 of 131

March 10

Roundtop PA
Air temps 37F- 61
Snowtemps 27-32F well-rounded grains, .25-.5mm

Almost no one had the base structure to cope with these conditions coming out of the near-winter of last week.

Maplus R1 Universal spray: fair slide at the top of the hill, not very effective at bottom, durability unaffected.

Picked up a LOT of dirt, tho.
post #106 of 131
Ever since my kit arrived, life has been getting in the way of my skiing, but I finally had another chance to test the P1 liquid today at Hunter Mtn, this time under more appropriate conditions.

Air temperature ranged from 25-35, snow temperature was tough to discern; most of what I skied on today was too hard for me to insert the thermometer; apparently it had been a sunny day in the 40's yesterday, but I doubt we had more that 5 minutes of sunshine today, so most of the mountain never softened up. I think it's a safe bet that where it mattered, snow temperatures were at least a few degrees below 32.

Hardpack, frozen granular, loose granular, this stuff was as fast as anything I've ever put on my skis.

I don't keep track of how many runs I do, but it wasn't crowded and I did quite a few with no discernable loss of glide. It looks like there's enough wax left to squeeze out another day and if I manage to get out again next week (the way things have gone lately, who knows) we'll find out.

Telerod, you're right, it's much easier when you pour a little wax on the brush.

A bottle with a sponge applicator still seems like the best way to go.
post #107 of 131
Thread Starter 
(I'll expand on address other posts tomorrow.)

The Maplus Universal Hot (white) or P1 Hot (yellow) paraffins/HC (or better yet, Hot LF) works better than the Universal liquid paraffins when heading towards and above the melting point. The Universal Liquids with low fluoro also work well.

I fashioned a foam sponge applicator from a mini painting roller. Worked great, but need to find a better capping method. I'll try to post some pics in the near future. FWIW, the Universal liquid's sponge applicator is easily removed and can be refilled.
post #108 of 131
Alpinord...any suggestions for anti glop on skins?
post #109 of 131
Thread Starter 
Last year I tried some of the Universal and P1 with good results the few times I got out. Maplus came out with Glide & Skin wax this season, which I haven't tried yet. I know they were testing this stuff last year at Euro rando races.
post #110 of 131
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the time, testing and input. Glad we're getting frank input and of course good results. Fine tuning some of the issues can help all of us make the call on how to use liquids & sprays as a viable alternative. So far, when using any of the Maplus waxes (solids or liquids) as designed (and some, RB Med, well beyond) I've been very pleased. The only exception is the Universal liquid paraffin art higher temps. The Universal Hot & LF works better, as does the P1 hot. The universal spray samples sent were paraffin/HC. They have been replaced with low fluoro/LF, except for the bulk liquids (not sure about next year, though). I'm really liking the LF products (universal & P2) in cold through warm conditions. If people are pleased with the universal paraffins, I expect you'll enjoy the bump of the LF for spring conditions.

trekchick
Quote:
I put a base on with the purple hard wax(hot wax application). OMG that stuff is time consuming to apply, but I wanted to make sure I did the product a proper test.
You think that is difficult, try the RB Hard. It's like epoxy. Did you try minimizing the amount of wax used to reduce scraping? Obviously, a sharp plastic scraper helps. Light pressure with a metal scraper might be worth trying. I've gotten spoiled using the 'Tim the Toolman' approach with roto brushes to expedite the process. They make it super easy & fast.

BigE:
Quote:
Aren't these spray-on waxes intended for quick fixes at race-time when it's obvious the tech messed up or the snow changed unexpectedly?

Are these really built to last all day, or just one run and re-apply?
"Maplus is the only wax company to manufacture high-melt paraffin (hydorcarbon) wax in liquid or spray form for quick, easy and long lasting applications due to higher ski & snowboard base saturation and penetration with a harder, more durable wax."

telerod:
Quote:
Ok, I overlooked Comprex's squeegee method which sounds awesome efficient. Do I need a narrow squeegee?
You can get a 6" one (at least here) for $2 or $3. Seems like if wider than the ski, wax runs off on the sides if you're not careful. I'm going to cut mine down to see how it goes.

philpug:
Quote:
I tool out the Seths yesterday and I really missed them not being waxed (I should have waxed at lunch, I forgot). I waxed them last night so I will post a review on them later today.
How'd the Seths run?

comprex:
Quote:
well-rounded grains, .25-.5mm

Almost no one had the base structure to cope with these conditions coming out of the near-winter of last week.

(from other thread) What is the most accurate current method we have for gauging structure depth?
(BTW sorry about the knee. )

Not sure about measuring structure. Usually a WAG for me or relative to a rilling bar. When the rilling bar is new and sharp, it seems pretty OK, but more would be better in mashed potatoes/mank, but I don't know that it'll ever be enough for those conditions. Yesterday at T-ride, the coarse (60 grit) with RB Soft & P2 Hot was great for spring conditions (corn over 'icey' and light powder (north facing). It also worked well above 11,000 on colder, north facing snow. Wasn't great on the flats on dryer snow, but was on lower elevations and wet snow.

Cirquerider, FTR, I used the sprays on skins. It seems like you can coat the filaments better than certainly a rub on solid. The liquid ought to flow and coat pretty well.
post #111 of 131
Second day in a row on the P1 liquid. After a day of bombing around on hardpack last Sunday, today was about as good as it gets here in the East: powder and packed powder.

The skis still had decent glide, though it certainly would have been better had I waxed them. Unfortunately, I had to quit after 6 runs (tweaked my back - of all days to do it too) and noticed some white spots along the edges underfoot. Still, they were quite skiable when I stopped and I'll bet they would have remained so if I'd been able to finish the day.

I know from past experience that my regular iron on wax would have been challenged going from icey hardpack to powder back to back, so this stuff passes the durability test. A third day, however, would have been out of the question.
post #112 of 131
Really warm in the Sierra, so I did a major preparation wax on the Sugar Daddys. Started with white solid, heated, scraped, followed with the green solid, heated scraped and brushed out. Then last layer was MaPlus liquid -5 to 0 heated using the teflon, and brushed out.

No one had this much glide and the conditions were clearly wet in the afternoon with plenty of suction. I had some minor drag in the lowest elevations of Sentinel Bowl on ungroomed, very soft wet surface snow. The high traverse glided very well, and the skis ran through deep corn and slush piles without any drag. Really nice skiing when you don't have to worry about the snow putting on the brakes.
post #113 of 131
Thread Starter 
Keeps spring skiing fun. Did a little sloppy surfing today with similar results. Excellent overall with P2 Hot (low fluoro) over Race base soft (liquid -5° to 0C).

Any structure changes?

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but I asked the Maplus Product Manger why they don't rate their waxes above 0°C/32°. He said it doesn't matter as above the freezing/melting point, 'it's water', and not a temperature issue. Makes sense, but probably not the best option for marketing against products with ratings above freezing/melting. Any thoughts or comparisons?
post #114 of 131
Snow melt is more complex than the mere temperature measured at the interstitial snow crystal interface. Saying snow above 0F is water is a pretty gross generalization. Water is being formed and is percolating through the snowpack, but ponded water is pretty rare, at least on a large alpine snowpack. Especially at high altitude, snow can remain a solid at above freezing temperatures, as pressure decreases with altitude the melting point increases and the direct sublimation (direct evaporation from the solid state) is greatly increased. I'm not sure we will convince a marketing guy to take snow melt physics into account in his packaging, but I'm fairly sure you can measure above freezing temperatures in the near-surface snowpack without actually seeing abundant free water.

That BS aside, it sure skied nice.

I don't have a rilling bar and have never indulged in seasonal changes to my base structure.
post #115 of 131
Thread Starter 
If I recall properly, the context was relative to wet snows where when it's wet, it's wet (100% humidity, whether it's below 32° or 50°). It's basically the moisture content that affects the glide. So the Maplus Hot waxes do perform well above their 'rated temperatures'. It is misleading (not the whole picture) when others compare the Maplus glide waxes versus others above 0°C/32°.

OTOH, the Grip Waxes have ratings up to 6°C/43°F.
post #116 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
I don't have a rilling bar and have never indulged in seasonal changes to my base structure.
I used the wide pattern last week. It improved the glide by reducing suction. I did not have to push the skis forwards to anticipate the increasing friction. IMO, it works.
post #117 of 131
I've been using the white sample of solid wax Alpinord gave me at ESA the last few weeks. P1 Universal I think, not sure if it is low flouro or not. It works great on the warm snow we've been having. Air temps in the high 20's to mid 50's F. I've been crayoning it on every morning and ironing it in so I can't speak to it's durability. It sure slides well all day though.

Yesterday I overlaid it with spray P1 hot and my skis slid even better. Worked great on the crunchy in the am when it got slushy my skis kept sliding through everything instead of the normal stop and go you get in warm slushy conditions. Temp reached a high of 55f at Copper.

Terry sent me some P1 solid Hot Flouro, universal I think, the package is in my locker. I'll try it when I get back on the hill Friday.

b
post #118 of 131
Thread Starter 
Bong, it was the universal hot paraffin. Hold onto your hat with the LF.

The wide rilling pattern works pretty well for me, though a couple times in the deeper 'gray slurpy slush' I got some drag. I'm not sure that a super aggressive structure would have made a substantial difference as the skis were running well on everything I wanted to ski on....and not, including the crusty snow, where it got scary fast. :
post #119 of 131
I have been using the Universal Flouro Hot that Terry sent me since last Friday. Air temps have varied from 28f in the am to 56f in the afternoon. Snow conditions varied from firm hardpack to watery slush. I rewaxed each evening, crayoning a layer on and setting it with an iron, brushing with a hard horsehair roto and finishing with the soft nylon roto.

This wax has excellent glide and has lasted all day the three days I used it. It seemed to minimizedthe stop and go when sliding from firmer snow to wetter snow. I will order this or the P2 hot to use as my warm day spring wax.

In summary I find all the samples worked as well as better than the Swix and Toko I have been using and they seem to last longer. I used the P1 Cold, Universal and Hot Samples and they are execellent for using on a trip when you don't want to bring an iron along. Corking them in then brushing with nylon provides good glide and durability in the appropriate temperature ranges.

I will be buyiing some of this wax for my own use.

b
post #120 of 131
I don't think snow can get much above 0ºC until it's completely melted (then it's all water, no longer snow).
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