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Removal of oxidization from bases

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
How to get rid of the grey? by hand - Steel Brush? Brass? or by Roto - brass? Fibrelene and restructure? Grecian formula 16?

Anyone ever try a 4" hand held variable speed belt sander? How different could that possibly be from a floor standing belt sander?
post #2 of 29
In theory, as I understand it. the oxidation is very thin and can be sanded out by hand with sandpaper (or fiber pad) wrapped around a scraper or block, versus requiring a base grind. I know it's sacrilege to some, but a little sanding, citrus cleaner may be more than enough deal with the process and/or hot scraping to prep the base enough for waxing for rec skiers where absolute performance (which I'd never notice) is critical. Personally, I thing oxidation issues are somewhat over stated as a a major concern for typical skiers. Your mileage may vary.

I'm heading up to the shop to make saw dust and have been very tempted to pull out the orbital sander to see how it goes on bases. I'm not worried about it not working for me personally, but obviously if anyone else gets a wild hair, be careful. I'd avoid the belt sander approach even though I have a lot of experience with them and think the orbital sander or palm sander with great care and fine grits ought to do the job....but won't be perfect. It's just plastic on the bases and I've beat my bases up worse just skiing as well as wire brushes, scrapers, rilling tools and have yet to screw things up enough that they don't run just fine. Think of the bases as finishing wood for a finish where you want things to be flat and smooth. After sanding, structuring will also be required.
post #3 of 29

Hey Alpinord.

See if you can't gaffer tape a 6x9 beartex pad to a half sheet finish sander. It takes a bit of finagling to get the sheet clips to work correctly.
post #4 of 29
Good idea comprex. I think you may not need to tape it as the pressure of the sander may be fine for doing the job. (Especially if you are in a hurry.)
post #5 of 29
Not top tape but along the short sides of the pad, so that the standard sheet clips on the sander have more material to grab onto.

I've been stitching mine through.
post #6 of 29
('top' was a typo)

Thanks, good idea and the clarification is helpful.

Also a technique useful for base hair, scratch and wax removal??
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

Also a technique useful for base hair, scratch and wax removal??
You bet.
post #8 of 29
I just compressed and melted the first 3/8" of the ends of a fiber pad with my waxing iron set to 160°C. This makes it a piece of cake to attach it to the palm sander using the clips/clamps. I'm psyched, thanks!!
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post
I just compressed and melted the first 3/8" of the ends of a fiber pad with my waxing iron set to 160°C. This makes it a piece of cake to attach it to the palm sander using the clips/clamps. I'm psyched, thanks!!
Now I know what my old 350 watt iron is good for. Thanks!
post #10 of 29
Good posting. I just tried the Apollo 13 work up that Alpinord and comprex
fabricated. Damn if it didn’t work nicely…would never have thought up. Mission accomplished.
post #11 of 29
My understanding, from a thread a couple of years ago, is that the white/grey along the skis edges is not oxidation since p-tex doesn't oxidize. But it does indicate the skis need waxing.
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMSki View Post
My understanding, from a thread a couple of years ago, is that the white/grey along the skis edges is not oxidation since p-tex doesn't oxidize. But it does indicate the skis need waxing.
P-Tex does oxidize. The argument against this statement in my opinion is based on a conceptual misunderstanding of the word oxidize. Under the right conditions pretty much anything will oxidize.
post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
You bet.
What's the effect on the structure? Flatter every time?
post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
Now I know what my old 350 watt iron is good for. Thanks!
It's good for nothing. 350 watts does not make it to 160 C.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
What's the effect on the structure? Flatter every time?
The more I think about preparing a bunch of fiber pads and keeping my palm sander handy, the more I like it and see other uses.

The more base you take down the more impact on the structure. For cold temps (now here), (+/-) 180 grit sandpaper might be a good grit size to replace structure with a few passes, or with stiff brass or steel brush or rilling tool. As things warm up, a coarser/more aggressive structure may be desired. The fiber pad or fine sandpaper allows you the option to also reduce the structure from warmer to colder temps. In my view if you are precise with your edges, structuring needs the same level of care and focus.....but is very easy and forgiving.

FWIW below (before using fiber pad to clean up and note weld patch at bottom) is what I do for spring conditions with low fluoro, hot with excellent results. The smaller teeth on the other side are good for cold temps. Variable pressure on the coarser teeth can be controlled for mid temps if you really get into dialing in structuring:

post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 
Nice work!

Is that the result from a 1/4 random orbit sander, then that tool? I've never seen that tool you've got in the photo. What is it, and where can I get one?

Thanks!
post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
What do you think of this straight tooth metal saw for structuring?

http://www.silkysaws.com/minimini2_150metal.htm
post #18 of 29
Uh, NO.

You want very very laterally rigid teeth and a rigid back to your riller bar; I expect the one Alpinord shows in his pic is about 1/4" thick brass.

There are very few hand saws with backs rigid enough (Western pattern dovetail saws) to be pulled across like that, but even those don't have teeth that won't either bend (with the accompanying random gouging of the base) or snap off.
post #19 of 29
It's the Rilling Tool I sell because I like how simple it works with a nice pattern. I can get a 12" bar as well. FYI nordic (skate) skiers use a rilling tool that presses in the structure rather than abrading or tearing out the base that alpine tools tend to do like this bar.......or base grinding.

Dimensions:
6"/150mm x 15/16"/23.5mm x 3/16"/5mm
Coarse teeth: 15/cm
Fine teeth: 30/cm (+/-)

The photo was from the base repair page. All sanding was with a scraper and sandpaper. Note the final image was after using the tool and then sanding down the too aggressive structure and rilling again with the finer teeth (which I probably ought to note with the image., oops).

Another simple, straight forward hand tool that will work on bases is a body/panzer file. SVST makes a 'strawberry file' but haven't used it yet and know how it compares.
post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 
Oh geez alpinord, I had no idea you sold that stuff, and just ordered one from tognar!

Oh well, now I know better.
post #21 of 29
No worries. So much for all this commercialism at EpicSki. : (Guess I need a bigger ad. . Hope the little tweak isn't too offensive.)

I forgot to mention that the rilling tool is also not bad as a true bar. Be sure to double check it for straightness for structuring and true bar use. How it works for you would be good feedback.
post #22 of 29
generally, screwing with the bases by hand using much more than a brass brush leads to a slower ski... at least for a while as it tends to upset the "Smoothness" of the structure.

the best thing to do if its "real bad" and the base feels rough to the touch is to have the skis stone ground and textured by a shop.

a little grayness is basically a cosmetic problem resulting from not waxing often enough.

skis that turn grey near the edges under the foot after a day of skiing can still be very fast.

but if the bases are screwed, its best to get them ground flat and textured by a shop.

the key to a fast ski is babying the ski so that the base can go a LONG time without a re-grind.

after all, we tune our skis to be fast and stable, not so that they look pretty on the bottom.
post #23 of 29
Here is a closeup of the riller bar I sell if you want to see the teeth better:



I don't have cool base pictures but I have also played around with putting a chevron pattern over a linear to break up the repetitiveness of the structure. There are advantages to this. I summarized what I learned in a Wintersteiger class here.

I also have a snowboard riller bar.
post #24 of 29
Wow... its a shame that none of you have it right. Oxidation is caused by a lack of waxing your skis. If you ever see oxidation on your ski bases, scraping it off will make it worse because that will remove any remaining wax there is. You should wax your skis at least once every 2 ski days. If you do this, you will only see black bases-- none of this oxidized stuff.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by skievl View Post
You should wax your skis at least once every 2 ski days. If you do this, you will only see black bases-- none of this oxidized stuff.
You don't ski on man-made, icy, or sugar snow much, do you? We wax every 1-3 ski days and regularly see edge oxidation (base burn) after only 1 day.
post #26 of 29
it seems like thats all i ski on...i wax at least every two days. after two days of skiing i definitly see oxidation... i wax them to get rid of it. after one day, however, i have never seen any oxidation after that short amount of time. im saying that you shouldnt try to scrape the oxidation off, but instead wax your skis once you see it.
post #27 of 29
I just had mine waxed by the shop last night since I was getting an edge tune. I specified the wax I wanted, skied one day (42k feet) and when I got down the hill, there was a half inch of grey pretty much the entire length of the ski. I normally wax every other day. So, given sharp cold snow, you can still get this grey thing going. I rub it with my hand and it comes off.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
skied one day (42k feet) and when I got down the hill, there was a half inch of grey pretty much the entire length of the ski.
And across the width too? What sort of ski?
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post
And across the width too? What sort of ski?
Not sure what difference it makes as to the type of ski... But they are Recons, 167's. The grey was only on the 1/2 inch in from the edges. I pretty much just ski the edges most days.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Removal of oxidization from bases