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# Just raced Nastar - What would my FIS points be? - Page 2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Richr I thought this would be a fun little math exercise, to see if I understood how FIS points worked. I'm sorry to have been such a bother.
no bother, really---you saved me from the agony of a public stoning!:

I appreciate it.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by U.P. Racer SJ had a nearly PERFECT post. Great information. I'm sure you know this Atomicman, but I wasn't referring to the amount of knowledge possessed about points when I said that.
In all seriosness I was just trying to show simply, that the USSA & FIS points are very complicated calcultions that in reality have no comparison to a a sub 25 second open fairly flat nastar course.

If you want to know where you stand, get a one day masters license and go race a master's race where you actually get points.

this would give you a much better idea of where you stand.

Most likely the longer the course the farther behind any of us would be behind the pacesetter.
In other words, if you are behind 23% in 21 seconds, you would probably behind a much larger % on a 1:05 second course.

there are 2 additional issues with this comparison and probavbly many more not thought of!

#1. Everyone starts with 990 points and must work there way down points wise or up the start ladderr.

#2. You start the race based on your points, the lower, the early you run on a cleaner course, except either the top 15 or (FIS top 30) is a random draw)and then the top 30 finishers are flipped from 30th to #1. Although I believe the Wc is doing something a bit different in regard to 1st run start order for the top racers now. Nastar you just run when you show up.

There are just so many issues and complications with race points, courses, starts, finishes and so forth, it is just an excercise in futility to try and compare.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rick I raced NASTAR last year and had a handicap under 1, and at over 50 years old you can bet I'm not the 8 FIS point racer your calculation would suggest.
Jan 17, 2007

Hi Rick:

IMHO, great racing, no matter what you say. You are beating the Pacesetters (note the plural s, sorry guys) at my local area like drums (note the plural s). Good show and keep on showing those young upstarts (note the plural s) how it's done (pacesetters are under 35 or 30, not sure exactly, except for one who is under 45).

BTW, you don't happen to be from Nob Hill?

Richr:

Good show. Keep on racing/skiing and enjoy yourself

CharlieP

PS: I note that you are from Colorado, so you probably are not 'currently' from Nob Hill, if ever, Fastman.

PPS: SJ, great post.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by U.P. Racer A WC course is so VASTLY different in every way than a Nastar course that it literally makes ALL the difference. .

True, but when I was a USSA racer I competed on some dinky flat races, some in the UP, some with the same timing gear as a Nastar Race, and we still had FIS points calculated. Calculations are calculations.

I think the original post was refering to how the FIS points are calculated, and that can be done for any set of results involving ranked skiers.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yuki Who was the NASCAR : pacesetter this year?
Juan Pablo Montoya?
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Atomicman #1. Everyone starts with 990 points and must work there way down points wise or up the start ladderr.
So to answer the original question, it's 990....
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 Originally Posted by newfydog True, but when I was a USSA racer I competed on some dinky flat races, some in the UP, some with the same timing gear as a Nastar Race, and we still had FIS points calculated. Calculations are calculations. I think the original post was refering to how the FIS points are calculated, and that can be done for any set of results involving ranked skiers.
Oh, absolutely... I agree. I'm just talking about the relative difficulty of the course affecting the percentages.

If it was just simple math, you could just go with your Nastar handicap and figure out your theoretical placing in a world cup event.

(in fact, I'm going to do that.... stand by...)
Hurry! .... I'm holding my breath .....

My handicap: 3.98 (I'm a pacesetter, so this is actually pretty accurate since it was from a pacesetting trial with A.J. Kitt)

Let's use Alta Badia where Palle Kallendar won. His winning time was 2:28.82, if you add 3.98 percent to that, I would have been about 5.9 seconds behind him, good for 29th place behind Thomas Fanara (?) from France. FIS points of 17.something.

Sweet.

I gotta book a ticket to Europe... I got some ass kicking to do....
Aggggggggggggggggggggggghhhh! Thanks, I was getting short!

Go ahead and make me feel slow. How's it feel to hurt an ol' mans feelings?

Least it was worth the wait!
Quote:
 Originally Posted by U.P. Racer OK, Yuki.... Ready? My handicap: 3.98 (I'm a pacesetter, so this is actually pretty accurate since it was from a pacesetting trial with A.J. Kitt) Let's use Alta Badia where Palle Kallendar won. His winning time was 2:28.82, if you add 3.98 percent to that, I would have been about 5.9 seconds behind him, good for 29th place behind Thomas Fanara (?) from France. FIS points of 17.something. Sweet. I gotta book a ticket to Europe... I got some ass kicking to do....
I can't believe that Bill Marolt doesn't have you on speed dial.

Thanks for doing the math. I still think Richr's original question was a fun one. Could you do the same math for his 23 handicap and tell us whether his plus-or-minus FIS points of 205 would be correct?
World cup result sheets only go up to 30th place. But based on the winning time example I just used, a 23 handicapper would be like 34 or so seconds behind the winning time. In reality, it would be much more than that! In both my example and the 23 example. I'm sure I would be more than 10 seconds out per run on a world cup course, probably more.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Atomicman Nastar is pretty much a joke. Someone running a Nastar course worrying about how they'd stack up in FIS points hit me as pretty damn silly! Even i can get a freakin' gold or platinum, whatever medal they are giving out no Nastar!
Put up or shut up...

And since you are a tough dude obviously unfazed by mortal concerns like age, why don't you put up a Platinum medal in my age division?

I think NASTAR got harder or something. I got an 11 handicap on Pocket Rockets with core shots in 2002, and I just got a 17.68 at Taos the other day on my slalom skis. I was dead tired from pulling an all nighter, and I went faster than everyone but the pacesetter who was wearing a suit and GS boards, but I only qualified for silver. I mean, SILVER. Its easy-peasy chest puffy NASTAR right? I would have had to run something insane like three seconds faster to get a Platinum. On a 24 second course! I used to get beat by 60 point guys by less than a second on easy 24 second courses...I'll give myself a second or maybe a second and a half for GS skis, a suit, and wax. I'm still not going to get Platinum.

like I said, put up or shut up dude. let's see it. and none of this wussy qualifying for it at some advanced age handicap BS. you are a man among men, an Atomic Man.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by skiingman Put up or shut up... And since you are a tough dude obviously unfazed by mortal concerns like age, why don't you put up a Platinum medal in my age division? I think NASTAR got harder or something. I got an 11 handicap on Pocket Rockets with core shots in 2002, and I just got a 17.68 at Taos the other day on my slalom skis. I was dead tired from pulling an all nighter, and I went faster than everyone but the pacesetter who was wearing a suit and GS boards, but I only qualified for silver. I mean, SILVER. Its easy-peasy chest puffy NASTAR right? I would have had to run something insane like three seconds faster to get a Platinum. On a 24 second course! I used to get beat by 60 point guys by less than a second on easy 24 second courses...I'll give myself a second or maybe a second and a half for GS skis, a suit, and wax. I'm still not going to get Platinum. like I said, put up or shut up dude. let's see it. and none of this wussy qualifying for it at some advanced age handicap BS. you are a man among men, an Atomic Man.
Kind of comical from a guy named Skiing MAN! testy aren't we. Must have hit some kinda weird ego nerve, huh! Aw,can't get a platinum anymore???

Look who's puffy on their Pocket Rockets and sorry on thier slaloms!

The older I get the faster I was, apparantly just like you?

And you have no right to take away my age advantage, that is age discrimination!!! it's illegal!

I all seriosness, I have not run a Nastar course in the last couple of years, because there are none here. But when I did, Gold every run No platinum back then.
Also, No wax, no suit, full coat & pants & absolutly no training!
see, puffy chest atomic man can do it.

so put it up.
I'd like to nominate this thread for the funniest title in some time. Beyond that, I'll pass on the dickwaving, thanks.
Are we seriously having an arguement over who can win a race in a NASTAR course - and arguing about how difficult it is to get a gold/platinum? Unbelievable...
Quote:
 Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier Are we seriously having an arguement over who can win a race in a NASTAR course - and arguing about how difficult it is to get a gold/platinum? Unbelievable...
No, we are having an argument over how ridiculous it is to try to figure out your FIS points by your Nastar results. Even more unbelievable! : :
I know my FIS points....

990 baby...
Quote:
 Originally Posted by skiingman I know my FIS points.... 990 baby...
Cool, we're tied!
Here's a link to the FIS GS at Lutsen. David Koop, who placed fifth 1.2 out, scored 38.+ FIS points. Last night in our beer league (time 15.95) his handicap was .89. I'll let you guys do the math. (the winner improved his points but the second place finisher's seed points are 13.+) Have fun
http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.ht...L&raceid=47142
16 second course? Better have a good start, eh?
Quote:
 Originally Posted by skiingman I know my FIS points.... 990 baby...
Yeah--this is cool. I'm also tied in FIS points with Atomicman, skiingman and a whole lot of faster skiers...

### They know

Quote:
 This leads to some rather odd things, such as wanting a low-point competitor to finish in the top 10 (even if that pushes you back a place) to improve your own FIS (or USSA) points ... though I don't think the typical racer is really aware of that (though coaches seem to be).
The kids I see racing can estimate the penalty and race points in their heads to a couple of points and trust me they are aware that that it's to their benefit for the the racers with the lowest points to finish in the top ten.

You should have heard the collective groan last week when the 25 point racer skiied out in SL.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Skiusa The kids I see racing can estimate the penalty and race points in their heads to a couple of points and trust me they are aware that that it's to their benefit for the the racers with the lowest points to finish in the top ten. You should have heard the collective groan last week when the 25 point racer skiied out in SL.
I know of a USSA race were the timing craped out, and someone was watching the race with the start list, calling in the times over a walkie talkie by watching the racers and checking their points to arrive at a finish time.

I was not involved in anyway and have only heard about it. But I absolutely trust the person who was involved and told me about it.

Thats all I am going to say about that.
Considering the redundant timing systems required to time a USSA-sanctioned race and the reports that are required by USSA, it would be interesting to see how the entire timing system died for more than one racer. If it did, the race should have been called or hand-timed by start and finish refs.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by U.P. Racer OK, Yuki.... Ready? My handicap: 3.98 (I'm a pacesetter, so this is actually pretty accurate since it was from a pacesetting trial with A.J. Kitt) Let's use Alta Badia where Palle Kallendar won. His winning time was 2:28.82, if you add 3.98 percent to that, I would have been about 5.9 seconds behind him, good for 29th place behind Thomas Fanara (?) from France. FIS points of 17.something. Sweet. I gotta book a ticket to Europe... I got some ass kicking to do....
Hey you are in good company UP. Check out the second run of the GS last year at Kranska and watch Fanara smoke the field in a Worldcup GS! That guy is hot as a pistol when he rolls one! The ski team needs you!

- Fossil
U. P. Racer. I know you were joking, but I feel the need to point out a flaw....Pallander got 0.00 for the Alta Badia Race. His GS FIS ponts are now at 0.68. AJ's best GS points when he was racing were 33.18, so unless AJ has gotten really fast, your "points" may be more like 50? If so, this would rank you about 163rd in the US and about 1090th in the world. You still got some work to do.....
I was joking, but A.J. isn't a zero nastar handicap either. He's a 1.7.
...and I assure you my FIS points would not be in the 50's right now. If they were under 100 it would be a miracle.
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