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When selecting gloves, why NOT get gortex? (somewhat Hestra related)

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
so, i'm in the market for new gloves and came here to see what everyone recommends. seems like hestra has a pretty strong following here. i've also seen several people recommend the marmot ultimate and black diamond guide gloves. the hestra gloves that everyone seem to love are leather, and i've noticed quite a few posts about drying the gloves out. so, what's so great about leather gloves that get soaking wet? the marmot and black diamonds both have the gortex insert. why would anyone not get the gloves with the gortex xcr insert? i guess the real question is: given the choice between the hestra alpine pro heli and the same glove with the gortex insert, why would one opt for the regular heli without the insert? just trying to understand what people like so i can make a good decision. my current gloves are just some scott gloves i got many years ago.
post #2 of 29
First post. Did a search and these are the ones I kept in mind to try out. I went to Cabela's the other day and got the Pinnacle gloves because it was on sale. Normally $50 but sold for $30 so I didnt lose much. It's been snowing/sleeting here in Kansas City the past few days and ive had them on while removing ice and things and theyve kept me somewhat warm. Even used them to the carwash and water didnt get through. I ordered the Patagonia glove liner yesterday to wear when the larger gloves arent needed (cold dry weather).

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templa...Id=cat6 01369

The MH Headwall sells for $100 but www.ems.com has them for $50 right now. Those are the ones i'd probably get if I didnt get the Cabela's gloves.

Patagonia Expedition Weight Capilene Stretch Glove Liner
Patagonia White Smoke Gloves
Marmot Ultimate
Marmot Randonee
Grandoe GCS
Cabela's Pinnacle
Cloudveil Troller
Hestra Army Leather Heli Mitt
Gordinis
Head $15 from Costco
Swany SX-13/SX-15
PMGear.com KevGloves
Mountain Hardwear Headwall XCR Glove
post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
i guess i should specify that i had already looked into the gloves recommended here, and now i simply have a question about why the gloves that so many people seem to love (leather gloves, work gloves) do not have gortex lining. is there some reason some people avoid it?
post #4 of 29
The main difference between the Hestra Gore-tex XCR and the Heli glove are the liners. The Heli has a removable liner and the XCR does not. Apparently it was difficult to integrate the gore-tex layer with a removable liner.
I have the XCR's and my wife has the Heli's. They are both pretty damn good. I do wish sometimes that my liners came out to dry.
post #5 of 29
I'm also a fan of cabellas for gloves. I love full-leather. I have both goretex and non. (the goretex just came out this year in their deerskin gloves.) And in truth, even though the glove has a goretex insert, the leather still soaks up water. This can be heavy and cold on stormy days. I only wear full leather on days it's not storming. On those days, nothing beats them. But if it's not storming, why opt for the goretex? I have goretex in my full leather for the converse reason--- why not opt for it?

nonetheless the only time I need goretex is during storms, and those gloves have a repellent nylon shell to keep the glove itself dry, not just your hands.
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post
The main difference between the Hestra Gore-tex XCR and the Heli glove are the liners. The Heli has a removable liner and the XCR does not. Apparently it was difficult to integrate the gore-tex layer with a removable liner.
I have the XCR's and my wife has the Heli's. They are both pretty damn good. I do wish sometimes that my liners came out to dry.
how wet do they get though with the xcr liner? i mean, if your liners still get wet, it makes sense to just get the regular heli so you can dry them with the liners out. but if the xcr liner really keeps moisture out (does it, compared to the heli?) then i might as well get that one...
post #7 of 29
I have the Hestra Heli. I just love the feel of them. I won't wear them in back east "wet" conditions, but I've been suprised how, after a day with a few wipeouts, although they may take on snow, they manage to stay warm and absorb a bit of water, rather than feel clammy and wet. For wetter conditions, I have some fancy xcr OR gloves, but the dexterity is just NOT the same as the Hestra. They're always in my bag in the lodge as back-up. It's hard to know what you'll like until you've broken it in and skied a variety of conditions, but it's still worthwhile to try them on first. One of my friends was gung-ho on the Marmot Randonee until he tried them on in the store....just didn't take well to his hand.

happy hunting!
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by //V View Post
how wet do they get though with the xcr liner? i mean, if your liners still get wet, it makes sense to just get the regular heli so you can dry them with the liners out. but if the xcr liner really keeps moisture out (does it, compared to the heli?) then i might as well get that one...
I think they get wet more from sweat than snow. I don't really notice my gloves getting "wet" on most normal days. Are you having snowball fights or something?
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
nah my gloves just inevitably come in contact with snow when im on the mountain. brushing stuff off, powder, spills. my gloves will get a little wet on any given day.
post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by //V View Post
how wet do they get though with the xcr liner? i mean, if your liners still get wet, it makes sense to just get the regular heli so you can dry them with the liners out. but if the xcr liner really keeps moisture out (does it, compared to the heli?) then i might as well get that one...
I switched to gloves with removable liners about three years ago and never looked back. If you ski aggressively, (or if it's not too cold out) your hands will sweat, and your liners get wet. Good liners will wick the sweat away to the outside layer of the liner, but it's still damp.

With removable liners,You simply pull the liner out of the gloves and dry it.... to me that's invaluable.

Gortex does not help you when your hands sweat (the liner gets wet from the inside ) and gortex does not keep leather from getting wet and heavy, because the gortex liner is between the shell and the liner. What the gortex does do is it keeps the wetness from the shell from getting to your hands, and has the added benefit of letting heated vapors from your hands escape, which helps keep the sweat buildup to a minimum.

I would also suggest a glove with a velcro pocket on the back that holds "hot hands" packets. That comes in handy when it gets REALLY cold.

Last but not least, have you ever pulled your hand out of your glove, and the finers from the liner turned inside out ? It's a pain in the but to reseat the fingers into the shell. With removable liners, you just take out the liner, fix it, put the liner on, and insert your hand back into the shell. Simple.

You may want to look at campmor.com. They had the best prices on gloves back when I last stocked up.

I used to use leather gloves many years ago. (I still have my leather "gate bashers" they look like something out of "rollerball" ) They rule in good weather, but they don't have any high tech materials in them, so they are miserable when they get wet. JMHO.

Good luck,
WW
post #11 of 29
Can't go wrong with $15 kinco gloves from the local hardware store + snowseal.
post #12 of 29
The difference between leather Hestra gloves and other gloves (i.e. Gore-tex something) is feel. The dexterity is noticeably better than anything else. It is somewhat true for other leather gloves, as leather molds to your hand shape with time. With Hestra it takes no time at all, they just fit perfectly from the beginning (at least my hands, you mileage may vary) I always keep a full Gore-Tex glove as a backup for real wet weather, but in ordinary conditions my hands are much clammier in Gore-Tex than in the Hestras.


Quote:
Originally Posted by //V View Post
so, i'm in the market for new gloves and came here to see what everyone recommends. seems like hestra has a pretty strong following here. i've also seen several people recommend the marmot ultimate and black diamond guide gloves. the hestra gloves that everyone seem to love are leather, and i've noticed quite a few posts about drying the gloves out. so, what's so great about leather gloves that get soaking wet? the marmot and black diamonds both have the gortex insert. why would anyone not get the gloves with the gortex xcr insert? i guess the real question is: given the choice between the hestra alpine pro heli and the same glove with the gortex insert, why would one opt for the regular heli without the insert? just trying to understand what people like so i can make a good decision. my current gloves are just some scott gloves i got many years ago.
post #13 of 29
Just go to Costco and buy a pair of their head gloves for about $15.00. I just don't understand buying expensive leather gloves that are soaking up water? Goretex is nice but you do pay for the name. Other fabric breathable protections work as well. for less money.
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49 View Post
Just go to Costco and buy a pair of their head gloves for about $15.00. I just don't understand buying expensive leather gloves that are soaking up water? Goretex is nice but you do pay for the name. Other fabric breathable protections work as well. for less money.
Utah49 has it right. many of you know I am a gear whore and spare no expense but the Costco Head glove is amazing for $12.00. Warm, (it was 10 degrees here on the hill at the base Saturday and my hands/fingers were never even close to cold) Dry and they are made with Outlast and are waterproof and breathable. Also have a pocket for a handwarmer pack built in. And a closable snow cuff!

I always bring 2 pair of gloves with me and put a fresh pair on after a lunch break. My gloves (even leather Reush race gloves) never get wet unless it is raining.

All gloves get damp on the inside from perspiration. Even Gore-Tex can't keep up with the amount of moisture exuded by your hands in a confined space like a glove.

Actually I think the Head gloves at Costco are $11.99 this year. They are damn near disposable at that price. Ya can't go wrong!

Bring 2 or 3 pair with you and change at a break.

Only downside is everyone will know you bought ski gear at Costco. that doesn't have the same "Smart Shopper" connotation as buying a vat of peanut Buttter for pennies a pound!
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post
The dexterity is noticeably better than anything else.

How dextrous are they?
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
Actually I think the Head gloves at Costco are $11.99 this year. They are damn near disposable at that price. Ya can't go wrong!
They sure are disposable. Five days on the rope tow and they rip out like clockwork. Happened to two pairs in a row for me. At least Costco was good about the refund.

I'll stick with the amazing dexterity of Hestra from now on. I could have bought 5 pairs of the Heads for what I paid for Hestra but the Hestras are still going strong when the heads would have long been dead.

BTW: Use the snoseal that comes with the Hestras to make them more supple, waterproof and dexterous.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
How dextrous are they?
it just feels like a very close fitting glove that is twice as thin as it really is. Also, with other gloves it does take a bit of effort to grip a pole. hestra are precurved in such a way that gripping a pole is a natural resting position for your hand. I am not saying that hestras are a better deal than the Costco''s Head gloves- it is ridiculous to compete with a $12 poduct that works decently (although my friend had then and they got wet some time and were completely shot after a season... but they are only $12). You can get 10 pairs of Costco gloves for the price of one pair of Hestra gloves. However if you want this intangible feel of a high-quality product, hestra will give that to you and the Costco glove won't. If you want total waterproofness and somewhat dry hands, go with Gore-Tex XCR.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
They sure are disposable. Five days on the rope tow and they rip out like clockwork. Happened to two pairs in a row for me. At least Costco was good about the refund.

I'll stick with the amazing dexterity of Hestra from now on. I could have bought 5 pairs of the Heads for what I paid for Hestra but the Hestras are still going strong when the heads would have long been dead.

BTW: Use the snoseal that comes with the Hestras to make them more supple, waterproof and dexterous.
ROPE TOW: : ?? What beginner hill are you skiing in and in what decade????: :
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
ROPE TOW: : ?? What beginner hill are you skiing in and in what decade????: :
Yeah, that's right, ROPE TOW 07 baby. Kirkland's best is great for tp and gummi bears, not so good for ski gloves.

Remember when you had to take a rope tow to 7th heaven at Steven's. That wasn't too many decades ago was it?
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
Yeah, that's right, ROPE TOW 07 baby. Kirkland's best is great for tp and gummi bears, not so good for ski gloves.

Remember when you had to take a rope tow to 7th heaven at Steven's. That wasn't too many decades ago was it?
it was so long ago I can't remember!
post #21 of 29
Good leather gloves work best for keeping hands warm. You don't need Gortex unless you're skiing in wet weather or put your hands in the snow alot. Leather keeps the wind out better.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
How dextrous are they?
Can you say **** here?

Nope, I guess not.

I've got some Hestra Helis (no Gore Tex) and an extra set of liners. I switch out the liners if they get too schweaty. As long as you Sno Seal them on a regular basis,you'll have no problems. And they are dextrous as ****.
post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
Can you say **** here?

Nope, I guess not.

I've got some Hestra Helis (no Gore Tex) and an extra set of liners. I switch out the liners if they get too schweaty. As long as you Sno Seal them on a regular basis,you'll have no problems. And they are dextrous as ****.
so i've heard
post #24 of 29
I have many pairs of costco Head gloves, and they work well. I have some higher priced Swany Gloves and they work marginally better. I also have some Gordini gloves and they work well. My best advice is to bring several pairs, and if it is really cold or raining, to wear mittens. Mittens are really beneficial during downpours. My best pair is a set of Outdoor Research mitten shells, with fleece liners, which are really good in that kind of weather. The best advice of all is to have a big ski bag with lots of dry gloves, and have afew more dry gloves in your hotel room and car.
post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOG View Post
I have many pairs of costco Head gloves......I have Swany Gloves.......I also have some Gordini gloves......a set of Outdoor Research mitten shells...... with fleece liners...... The best advice of all is to have a big ski bag with lots of dry gloves, and have afew more dry gloves in your hotel room and car.
Must be a large ski bag.

Have you ever done an inventory on how many pairs of hand wear you have? That's quite a quiver. You need to work some dexterous Hestra into the line up.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah49 View Post
Just go to Costco and buy a pair of their head gloves for about $15.00. I just don't understand buying expensive leather gloves that are soaking up water? Goretex is nice but you do pay for the name. Other fabric breathable protections work as well. for less money.
That's a good point, but I like a good pair of gloves. I live all winter in mine and it's the best money I spend.

I have Reush, gortex gloves with lamb leather palms. Got em on sale for $30.+ and they are nice. Keep my hands dry and warm for the most part. They also dry nicely at night.

No rope though!
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
Must be a large ski bag.

Have you ever done an inventory on how many pairs of hand wear you have? That's quite a quiver. You need to work some dexterous Hestra into the line up.
I have three teenagers, so the inventory can vary from week to week.
post #28 of 29
$30 fora pair of gloves you like isn't bad. What I don't get is spending $50,$75 or more for gloves that aren't that much better then the $15 Costco head gloves. Then again I don't see gloves as another status symbol. Take that money and buy $200 custom poles now that's money well spent
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai View Post
I'm also a fan of cabellas for gloves. I love full-leather. I have both goretex and non. (the goretex just came out this year in their deerskin gloves.) And in truth, even though the glove has a goretex insert, the leather still soaks up water. This can be heavy and cold on stormy days. I only wear full leather on days it's not storming. On those days, nothing beats them. But if it's not storming, why opt for the goretex? I have goretex in my full leather for the converse reason--- why not opt for it?

nonetheless the only time I need goretex is during storms, and those gloves have a repellent nylon shell to keep the glove itself dry, not just your hands.
Ditto. To keep the gloves from from soaking up water, treat them with a good leather protectant...
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