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EpicSki: Discussion of Commercial Posting and Sponsors - Page 3

post #61 of 80
Well, SMJ, you aren't the only one alpinord has rubbed the wrong way... My point is that I don't think the conflicts are caused by the fact that he sells tuning equipment. I think it has more to do with the fact that he takes a view that not everyone requires the perfect tune everytime they hit the hill but they will benefit from aquiring some basic tooks and skills -and that flies in the face of those who are super passionate about tuning.
post #62 of 80
Originally Posted by MisterK View Post
Well, SMJ, you aren't the only one alpinord has rubbed the wrong way...
Must have been rubbing tail to tip instead of tip to tail.

As to me, I use universal wax almost exclusively now after trying to always get the wax just right in the past. I got rid of my structure tools, I sold some of my brushes and only use two now.

I'm all for keeping it simple. A couple of diamond stones, a couple of brushes, wax iron, plastic and metal scrapers, a wide paint brush to clean off the skis between scraping and brushing passes.

(OK I'll admit I use the skivisions base flattening tool with a stone on it sometimes too.)
post #63 of 80
Oh and a towel to always dry the edges off after skiing so they don't rust. (i am in the east after all and it's been raining and spring conditions here mostly.)
post #64 of 80
Having had the benefit of speaking with Alpinord on a chairlift during a day of skiing at A Basin, I can attest to his passion for helping those who typically haven't even considered tuning. He certainly has a strong opinion about "good enough" when it comes to tuning, and expresses it passionately and freely both in person and here on EpicSki. I think that debating the merits of high-end tunes is an interesting topic, but compared to the "tune" that many skiers have, anything at all would be a vast improvement, which I think is part of Alpinord's point.

So, I think that there's room for both extremes and a lot of middle ground in this conversation. However, when anyone begins accusing another of negative intentions, we cross a line that makes recovery difficult for all parties. Throwing out threats and trying to compare relative value of contributions are all red herrings that make discussions heated, but don't really get us anywhere.

Perhaps a little moderation (ahem) of our discussions would go a long way. It is the writer that needs to consider how the reader may respond.
post #65 of 80
Originally Posted by nolo View Post
The deal we have with commercial supporter members is intended to be a win-win, folks. Our primary interest is that the community prosper from these relationships.
IMO, this objective is being met and these folks are a great addition to the community by lending both advise and credibility to the discussions.

FWIW, I don't view this any different than the instructors here that give their time to take part in the discussions, post advise, and answer questions.

The instructors should be able to benefit from their efforts here and the commercial supporters should be able to do the same.
post #66 of 80
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the support and allowing this to occur at EpicSki. I personally learn a lot getting into debates and it helps me understand where others are coming from, what misconceptions people have and believe. As a conduit back to my suppliers/manufacturers I can then provide feedback and suggestions on ways to fulfill peoples needs, wishes and over product improvements, along with trying to fill in information gaps and maybe throw out a 'down the food chain insider' bone every once in a blue moon. The interaction and getting more people into taking care of their expensive stuff is the interesting part as it will increase the enjoyment and save you real money, making sales is almost secondary, but nice and important as it keeps me in tools and wax.....and gear. :

My basic philosophy as a very long time, frequent skier (alpine, tele, XC & BC) in all conditions and terrain found in the midwest, east and Rockies is that striving for perfection in the tuning department is ideal and the benchmark, but doing the things that allow you to afford to ski and board and quality time with friends and family is more important. For all of us with busy lives and multiple interests, more often 'close enough' is all we can even consider striving for or afford and it's highly variable relative to region, personal preferences, time, budget, conditions, skill and confidence, etc. Finding the right acceptable level is a personal choice and can only be found by spending the time, trial and error, with assistance, learning tricks and options, and experiment.

'Git after it!

(BTW, please pass judgement on recent blatant plugs in the tuning forums. In my view, if everyone else can put forth their favorites/biases, why can't I......and quit walking on egg shells? Candor is good. The real truth is Maplus is a real player and will stand toe to toe with anything out there and excel in some areas. You can be among the first to find out for yourself....or not.)
post #67 of 80
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post
Alpinord, having sponsor level supporters is new to Epic this year. Frankly, we haven't done enough to inform the members, and prospective sponsors about this program, and how it has expanded in the past year.
  1. Alpinord (Slidewright, Maplus, T4Boards)
  2. Bbethke at BC.com
  3. Bob Peters
  4. Bud Heishman
  5. Dawgcatching
  6. Dr. D (Racewax.com)
  7. gschlact - Signature only
  8. Gary Dranow
  9. Jeff Bergeron
  10. Lisa Mercer
  11. Martin Bell
  12. Mammothsnowman (Snowman Productions)
  13. Mtbakerskier
  14. NextSport
  15. pdubya (Alpine Sports Outlet)
  16. powstash (Backcountry.com)
  17. RacerRick
  18. SierraJim (Sierra Ski, Snowboard and Patio)
  19. Skifex
  20. SNOtrainer (Alex Chemerov)
  21. Stache
  22. teachskiljp
  23. Tyrone Shoelaces (PMGear)
  24. weems
I had no idea about this. Though I have not visited Epic as much as in the past. Explains allot though. I had been wondering why some members posts were pretty much always self promotion.

Adds to the boredom factor. I might sound like Gonz here but Epic is becoming more and more like one big infomercial.
post #68 of 80
Like I said earlier, with my sig at least you know where I am coming from when I suggest a product. It would be good to know who is in what business when they post.

I would also point out that I make an effort to post info about a product in an informative way, "I have xxx in my store if you are interested, take a look." Or, with my waxes, I say read my testimonials and judge for yourself. I haven't looked back but I don't remember saying my products are better than someone elses or compared prices; though I may have said that an item is well priced. And, I have told people that some items they posted about were a great price and they should buy it (not from me).

I think there was (is?) a problem with excessive posts in the tuning section that looked to many like, "buy this from me". Early this year, I got caught up in it because of my competitive nature, but it became clear that, collectively, it was a negative and cluttered up the forum, so of my own choosing I pulled back and attempted to be selective in my posts -- to only contribute value, not ads.

The positive out of all of these negatives is that you all came together as a community to talk about the issue and work it out, or at least work towards a solution. I think this showed that the members feel ownership and, to some extent, policed the activity may have fixed it without the need to impose new rules. I think of of this shows the community obviously cares a great deal and system can work on its own.

I have a lot of respect for the members that cared enough to discuss this compared to those that took the easy route and left (or threatened to leave) the forum. It should make the community a stronger one. It's just growing pains; this place is evolving and the members are shaping it together. There will be a solution that is acceptable to most that comes from all of this.
post #69 of 80
I've done business with both Dr D and Alpinord. I found them both to be more interested in customer satisfaction and helping people make informed purchases than just offering profit leaders for thier own benifit

Their hands on development of their products and being open to feedback from their customers and interested browsers makes their business one I want to see prosper . I get excellent tuning advice from Dr D's site and he replys to direct communication in a timely manner.
When I had a question about products from Alpinords shop and called. Terry answered and handled my questions and asked how he could improve my purchase to make it easiers for me to use. He made modifications for me to suit my needs and when I questioned some material in his website he was genuinely interested in my feedback and even altered his website in reponse to a suggestion I made.
These two businessmen are so customer service oriented they are a valuable addtion to the Epic community and we should honor their contributions to the tech and tuning threads.
These are stand up guys and should be treated as such. There are two sides to their involvement here.Builiding their businesses and contributing their knowledge and opinions to the deep pool of expertise we find in this forum
post #70 of 80
Thread Starter 
Thanks Garry. It's getting to know people like you and several others that make up this forum's real value and appeal.

The 'easy thing' I could have done was to sit on the sidelines or in the bleachers and not say (albeit poorly) what needed to be said. Stepping (bumbling) into the ring and taking the heat is anything but easy.

Lest anyone missed the point of my poorly worded, initial emotional post is that as a small business operator with limited funds and time within the current climate and seemingly double standard, it has made no economical sense to continue to spend these resources relative to the return. If EpicSki members want commercial supporters to continue to contribute financially and with input from their perspectives, then there needs to be noticeable support, acceptance and tolerance on the table, or it'll fizzle. If as a whole this is not desired, then that needs to be decided and stated. Relative to time, energy, BS and discounts to supporters, it'd be easier and cheaper to simply place an ad and not offer input.

I'd expect the good ole boy network has it's own unstated view or boycott bouncing around. If I or (or anyone else) is not welcome here, I think it's only fair to be informed that they are wasting their time and resources.......or not. By the numbers, I am. My other responsibilities and interests (not to mention great snow) are increasing and getting more demanding and far more lucrative and less painful.

The wax supplies have finally been shipped to me for the Maplus wax test by EpicSki members. It is not cheap and will take tons of time and going forward, if this is an exercise in futility, I and RacerRick need to know.

Looking back, I can see that "what I thought I said or implied, clearly was not what was heard" and that my PO'd driven rant did far more harm than good and certainly further galvanized many. I apologize for the approach not for the intent of putting this issue on the table for the membership to decide how this issue should be handled and in the best interest of this forum. I can handle the truth, it's the BS that pisses me off.
post #71 of 80
Hey Alpinord, I just want to say that I never had anything against you and am definitely not going to hold a grudge. I hope you can do the same.

My initial comment was really just an offhand comment about my "unlike others not selling tuning supplies" to make the point that my suggestion was totally unbiased. It was a bit rude in retrospect and for that I apologize.

Then your, in your words, "PO'd driven rant" set me off and the rest is history.

Best of luck with your business.
post #72 of 80
Thread Starter 
Hey SMJ, I have no grudge. You just happened to be the messenger of the underlying attitude that has been eating at me (rightly or wrongly?) at the wrong time. A huge fault of mine is to take things too personally and let things build and build and then blow up on a seemingly trivial occurrence. I apologize to you and everyone for that and truly regret the way this went. But the perceived prevailing attitude and climate does get wearing, especially when you feel like you are spending a lot of time and energy trying very hard to be objective and helpful to this forum and the membership while walking on eggshells.

In hindsight, I need to count to a thousand, get away from the keyboard and go hit a few of my private pow stashes a mile away where nothing else matters.
post #73 of 80
Cool Alpinord. hrstrat57 refers to his 5 minute rule. walk away from the computer for 5 minutes before replying. I try to do that - try that is
post #74 of 80
Thread Starter 
Sometimes a 1,000 foot sustained climb and subsequent face shots is more effective....for me anyhow. We're cool.
post #75 of 80
It seems like everyone is on the same page or getting very close anyway. I don't think you need to worry much about a "good ole boy network [having] it's own unstated view or boycott bouncing around." At Epic Ski such an endeavor would be like herding cats. Epic Ski regular participants are nothing, if not a collection of individualists.
post #76 of 80
Thread Starter 
Thanks. Looks like a good fit for me as my nickname from high school was: F. I. ('I' being Individualist, I'm sure you can guess the 'F'.) :
post #77 of 80

Hello Epic Ski,


Tom Reinerth here from Dominator Wax.


Curious ... how can I become a sponsor of your site?



post #78 of 80
Originally Posted by Dominator Tom View Post

Hello Epic Ski,

Tom Reinerth here from Dominator Wax.

Curious ... how can I become a sponsor of your site?



Send a pm to nolo, cirquerider, or one of the other longtime staff to ask what the current sorry is. If you have trouble with that because your account is new, let me know your email and I will forward.
post #79 of 80

E-mail is:




Thank you for the info.



post #80 of 80
Originally Posted by Dominator Tom View Post

Hello Epic Ski,


Tom Reinerth here from Dominator Wax.


Curious ... how can I become a sponsor of your site?




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