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And now for something completely different...!

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
In the "Disappointed" thread, the point was made that a certain number of "substantial posts" need to be made prior to selling things on EpicSki. I am not going to challenge that policy in this thread, as I feel it is one way a buyer can feel confident that the seller is legitimate. (Just this past week, having shipped some socks to a buyer, without having received payment in advance, he sent me an email stating "that since you are not xyz or abc, I feel I can send you the check prior to receiving the socks!")
For several years, EpicSki pvt sales had a perfect track record of nobody getting screwed. I'm not sure if that perfect record still stands, but I surely hope it hasn't become an issue!


My question is this-
"What constitutes a "substantial" post, what standard is being used to determine this, and who is the final arbitrator of this standard?


If you were to take the highest post count individuals from this site, and evaluate the "substantial-ness" of their postings, I think many would be suprised. I'm not implying that they would not meet the standard of either content or number of qualifying posts, but rather that a high post count does not automatically infer that poster has contributed greatly to the community by virtue of that high post count. In one case recently, a new member had over 1000 posts within a few weeks. It has taken me almost 5 years to reach that same number. Funny thing is, that member is gone, and I'm still here.

In fact, many have been the times that superflous posting has actually detracted from the impact, intent, and continuity of a thread. This includes long timers, tech gurus, moderators, comedians, and cynics.

Now, I'm all about some levity in life, and I'm certainly about having a good time! And I wouldn't expect anything less than that here.

But I guess the place wouldn't be the same without them, now, would it?

"What would we do without all these jerks, anyway... Besides, all our friends are here! Don Henley, "Sunset Grill"
post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
IFor several years, EpicSki pvt sales had a perfect track record of nobody getting screwed. I'm not sure if that perfect record still stands, but I surely hope it hasn't become an issue!
The track record was far from perfect. This is EXACTLY why this was institiuted. There were numerous problems with people being 'scammed'. The scamming was from sellers with little or minimal posts. We were seeing an influx of hit and run sellers. As far as the "posts of substance", there is a bit of common sense involved. The first thing we do is look at the members post history. If more than half are here to sell something, that is a clue. If someone has 8-12 posts but this is the first item they are selling...different story.


Which reminds me....I still need to send you money for the hat & gaitor.
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Actually, until about 2003-4, AC and dchan had reported NO instances of abuse or fraud within the pvt sales.

But no doubt, as the size grew, (I remember when we hit 3000) the chances of some sort of abuse grew. This is no different than in society in general. Now that EpicSki stands in excess of 13,000, obviously there will be some around who are willing to take advantage of others.

Hopefully EpicSki will never have to act as a "moderator" in this arena, for if it does, I can only expect them to take a piece of that action. Then everybody loses!
post #4 of 14
We are trying to prevent any advantage being taken of. Believe me this has been much more work than some of us signed up for. I know 10 moderators sounds like a lot...at times we could use many more. I moderated at another forum where we had well over 30 mods, each section had 3-5 on duty at most times, and that forum was 3-4 times bigger than Epic is.
post #5 of 14
VSP, this is one reason that I would recommend an intermediary like PayPal. It gives more traceability than just sending products and checks. I think the changes are a combination of both EpicSki's growth and changes in the Internet in general. There are a lot more people trying to scam via the 'net than there were in the past, even just a few years ago. Sad, really.
post #6 of 14
PayPal provides NO security. If the seller empties the account into which PayPal places the funds, PayPal has no recourse to retrieve the funds to return to the buyer. BTDT.

That's why it makes sense for EpicSki to be as sure as possible the seller is a person who actually is a member of the community and is more likely to want to remain one.

I think sellers should be at minimum supporters.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post
I think sellers should be at minimum supporters.
This is not the first time this has been brought up. In fact we talked about it from day one. We will look into if the software can handle that, if so...
post #8 of 14
The software can.
post #9 of 14
Is there any sort of liability on the part of EpicSki if a buyer is scammed?

I am a firm believer in buyer beware, too much is done to protect people from there own stupidity. It seems like common sense to not buy (or be very cautious when buying) from someone who is a new member, just like buying from an Ebay seller with 1 previous sale. If an item seems questionable, or the seller seems questionable, it is up to the buyer to research both. Even asking opinions from the people here may be appropriate.

Limiting sellers to supporter status seems excessive. For me, deciding to make a donation and become a supporter was easy. However, as a student, my budget is tight, and justifying the small cost was hard. I made a purchase w/ a vendor on the site, and the discount was the same amount as the cost to become a supporter, so I donated. If I had been looking to sell some gear to fund further skiing, or other essentials, then making a donation would have been counterproductive.

Is there, or could there be, a caveat emptor type sticky at the top of the gear swap forum? Limiting this to supporters only will hurt both the legit sellers and the potential buyers.
post #10 of 14

Now that I actually go look...

Please Read Before Buying or Selling - EpicSki NOT responsible for transactions

For me, this pretty much says it all: Epic has no part, or control, over the sales.

ssh, could you elaborate on what "help" may be available? Maybe a description of the limited help available may make individuals a little more careful. People are used to the supposed protections that Ebay offers, I'm not sure what they expect after reading this.

Philpug, I really like how you worded your post about credibility.
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
ssh, could you elaborate on what "help" may be available? Maybe a description of the limited help available may make individuals a little more careful. People are used to the supposed protections that Ebay offers, I'm not sure what they expect after reading this.
I'm not sure to what you're referring. I'll try to explain it if you can help me see to what you're referring...?
post #12 of 14
Quote:
EpicSki plays no role in the transaction and bears no responsibility for any problems that may arise (however, we would like to know if problems do arise and will help in any way we can).
I think that people might see this and assume a simaler level of protection offered with other sites, such as Ebay & PayPal. I was suggesting that if there were some way to acuratly describe the "help" then people would better know what the are potentially getting themselves into.

I assume that about all that can be done after a sale goes south is the banning of the offending user?
post #13 of 14
We have engaged in e-mail and PM conversations with buyers and sellers in an effort to resolve any issues. We do have the e-mail that was used to register, even when that isn't available to members to e-mail. But, if the seller fails to respond, we would have to go to the ISP (possible if it's serious enough).
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
We have engaged in e-mail and PM conversations with buyers and sellers in an effort to resolve any issues. We do have the e-mail that was used to register, even when that isn't available to members to e-mail. But, if the seller fails to respond, we would have to go to the ISP (possible if it's serious enough).
I would have never assumed that the mods took this much action to help people out. Now I can see where the diffuculty in drawing the line with "posts of substance" and such comes into play.

With all the recent discussion about the role of the mods, big for looking out for the less experianced out there.
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