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Carving Steeps - Page 3

post #61 of 67
I couldn't get the instructional video to play. I have high speed but it acts like not fast enough. Too bad, it looks great. Here is an image of round speed control turns on a steep groomed slope by an old ski instructor. I can't carve edge to edge on steeps. I unweight and direct the skis into the turn and engage the edges as soon as possible and carve what's left the best I can. All mountain skiing requires a wide repertoire of skills and the ability to blend them as needed to get the best effect. Maybe pure carving on steeps isn't a reasonable goal.
post #62 of 67
That's not too steep though...

And this

"You really can't skid sideways or redirect effectively in chopped up crud or powder"

You haven't watched too many ski flicks lately, haven't you?

Gordy Peifer did what he called something like "deceleration slide" on some old TGR movie (Further?), on some old Rossi xxx:s (85mm middle). That was pretty impressive back then (1999?).

Since then the releasing from the edges and letting it "slide" every now and then have been one of the big trends in freeskiing --> think Spatulas, Pontoons, EHP's, Lotus 138's etc. Even on some "normal" ~100mm skis it's pretty funny (and easy if the snow is good) to let it go completely sideways at times. I remember how good my old totally decambered Pocket Rockets were in the trees --> since the tips didn't hook up at all I could "smear" all the turns pretty effortlessy, they were like "mini-Spatulas". Sure letting the skis carve the end of the turn (in the steeps) is elegant (and very Plake-Hattrup-Scmidt like) but I've heard the news is that skiing got much easier since the Stump-era...

Skidding is good if you know how to do it properly. Besides IMHO it's one of the coolest feeling in skiing to do those said "slides" at speed on steeps...moving forward but sideways on the top of the snowpack, totally floating.
post #63 of 67
Originally Posted by Jiehkevarri View Post
That's not too steep though...
Agreed. The terrain in the photo above isn't close to what I am thinking about when I am talking about steep.

Originally Posted by Jiehkevarri View Post
Skidding is good if you know how to do it properly. Besides IMHO it's one of the coolest feeling in skiing to do those said "slides" at speed on steeps...moving forward but sideways on the top of the snowpack, totally floating.
Schmeer turns!!!! Exactly what I was takling about about 5-6 posts ago...
post #64 of 67
Nice turns Martino.

My understanding of PSIA was that all the skills were equal and were blended depending on the situation. SO what are the lower end skills.
Lower end skills to me would be simply less refined and more gross in movement department. Psia "identifies" four skills with balance being the large all encompassing skill, with the other three being rotary, edging and pressure. They would rarely if ever be equal in application. They are a recognition of how the body moves (in three planes) and how we use those movements to ski.

The question was can you carve on steeps. The answer is clearly yes. Do expert skiers use turns other than a pure carve sure. However, when I am confident and skiiing well then I am using the same movements that I use when I am carving a turn.
If you were using the same movements, or as psia would say blending, then you would still be carving. You have changed something besides just your intent when you change your ski snow interaction. If you skid or brush a turn you are blending in more steering than you would if you were carving. You have backed off on one thing and increased another, however slightly it might be.

When I am scared or lazy I resort to scrubbing speed by skidding
In certain situations I call that being smart. Besides, saying you can carve on some steeps is different than saying that you can carve all steeps. IMHO anything you can groom can be carved if there is the room and the skier can handle the speed. My own definition of steeps doesn't include groomers, even those winch groomed. To each their own.
post #65 of 67
That is also very soft snow!
post #66 of 67
Originally Posted by onyxjl View Post
and as a follow up question...

What mechanism do you use to tighten a turn radius or add speed control when you have reached the limitations of what your skill, terrain, conditions, or equipment can accomplish with a carved turn?
To go fast:
My Preferred technique, for carving smaller turns at slower speeds than the skis were really designed for is to use less of the ski:
1) Use only one ski; it is easier to bend one ski than to bend two skis.
2) Use only a part of one ski at a time. Put all your weight on the tips and carve a turn using only the tip, ignoring the tail. Then finish the turn using only the tail as it goes through the same apex the tips went through. This is my preferered method to carry as much speed as possible while still making the tiny turns I am sometimes forced to make with my SGs.

To go slow:
Side slip. You must have done some of this as a beginner. Your skis are 90 degrees to the fall line and you control how much you slip down the hill by changing the angle your ski bases make with the snow. You can add some side slip to any part of the turn, or if it's very steep and you don't know what is down there just around that bolder that's blocking your view, you can side slip straight down. This technique (adding side slip to the turn) is very useful if you are on a run you have never been on before and don't know what is coming up. You should always pre-run a course before you take it full blast. What I like to do when exploring a new steep run is start to carve my turn out of the fall line and once my skis have deviated a little bit from the fall line, stand nice and tall to get a good view while introducing a bit of side slip. Playing with the amount of deviation from the fall line, the angle of the bases, and fore-aft balance adjusts my position on the run. When I get too close to one edge, I carve a turn back the other way, and begin to side slip again after I have carved through the fall line and my tips are pointing down and towards the other way. Interestingly, I suppose I could side slip the entire time, but I prefer to carve across the fall line.

Another technique that is useful in limited space when you must go slow and the pitch is fairly steep, but still shallow enough to have deep snow on it is the bicycle turn. The motion and rhythm of the feet is like that of pedaling a bicycle. As you push down with your uphill foot a pivot point moves along the downhill edge of that ski from the tip to the tail as the ski does sort of a cross between a carve and a windshield wiper turn with the end of the windshield moving. You end up facing the other way ready to push the other "pedal" down. Perhaps some instructor can better explain the bicycle turn. Imho, it is a lot less taxing that doing hop turns.
post #67 of 67
Thread Starter 
I found myself on Monday skiing those rocky chutes under the Paradise chair at Powder Mountain, and I got to try a lot of the stuff mentioned in this thread.

What I found, for me, was the most critical piece in making sure the turns flowed well was not rushing the turn through the fall line. To make my best turns I was using the same movements I used to carve on the groomers to initiate the turn and ski to the fall line. When I attempted to add a lot of redirection in this point of the turn, the resistance in the heavier snow put me off-balance for the rest of the turn and playing catch up, which only made the balance problem worse at the end of the turn.

To finish these turns, I found myself using a combination of steering and drifting to tighten the radius and often avoid rocks. What I found while doing this was that the more steering I applied to my skis, the stronger counter-rotation I had to apply at the waist to prepare for the next turn. If I did not apply this counter rotation, I would wind up over rotated in the direction of the turn at the end of the arc.

On some of the steeper groomed slopes at Snowbasin I found I could use virtually any combination of steer, carve, sideslip, etc, to vary the speed and turn shape. Redirecting the skis at the top of the turn was much less upsetting. Off-piste, however, I found this to not be as true.
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