New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Movement Analysis Request

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
This sequence of photos was taken about a week ago at Jackson Hole. The skier is Pedro. He's from Brazil and is in his early 20's.

Pedro only skis about 8-10 days a year, but he's very athletic and absolutely loves skiing. His background is surfing, which will probably be quite evident in the photos.

He loves the feeling of carving turns (in his mind, it's very similar to cuts on a surfboard) and wants to learn as much as possible. He and I both are looking for suggestions on drills and movements that will help improve his skiing.

We've talked a little bit about his arm/shoulder movements, but I don't want to try to force him to concentrate too much on this to the detriment of his obvious feel for his feet on the snow. He has a tendency to get too far back at the transition into each turn. But, if you look closely at the pressure on his skis through the turn, I think he's doing an amazing job of catching back up with his skis.

He's doing some park n' ride in these turns, but that doesn't carry over into his "free" skiing. He also seems to be doing a little of what I would understand to be "waisteering". Most of this is just instinctive, however, because he probably only has a total of about 60 days of skiing in his life.

So, what would you suggest to help this young skier improve his turns. We're both open to any and all thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

This is a photo sequence, all the way through two complete turns:






























post #2 of 28
At least he has the right skis...

Without seeing more transition photos I would suggest trying not to drop that inside hand and to keep the outside one lower. The goal here being to get rid of blocking movements that could keep him from angulating properly by keeping a strong inside half. This will help him continue to dial in more tipping and edge angles to tighten up the turn. A few of those try to touch the outside boot, drag the outside pole, etc... type things.

The second thing would be to work on moving more forward in addition to laterally in the transition. Get pressure working along the length of the edge and not across it by dropping in too early.

Really though, this is some good skiing. He is clearly getting the skis engaged and tipped early which is great to see. Put him in a NASTAR course and see what happens.
post #3 of 28
I'm sitting here in Central NY listening to pouring rain outside-those pictures of corduroy groomers make me want smash something:::
post #4 of 28
Hey Bob,

One thing interesting is what appears to be the "upside down" position in the "high C" part of the turn. This implies early edge edge engagement in the new turn - a very positive thing.

Second, probably related to dropping the inside hand is that there might be more inclination as opposed to angulation in his skiing.

Third, as you well know I have no credentials for MA and do not generally participate in the process but since you know me well I figure you know me enough to ignore what I say.

Finally, is that Grand?
post #5 of 28
two simple drills that I'm sure you know would have him rocking more than he already is:

1: Changing what is going on with his hands is actually essential. Use the touch the boots drill. Touch both boots at flat. Then uphill hand up and downhill hand lowto touch boot. back to touch both boots at flat.

2. Put poles in one hand. Hold uphill hand and high then pass them from uphill hand to downhill hand behind back at start of turn.

While he is showing good angles he is essentially banking. That's why he holds that opposite hanmd so high. Very surf like.
post #6 of 28
If only all my students skied like this guy!

While you've mentioned you don't want to "focus" on the arm/shoulder thing, it does appear as if his upper body is tipped to the inside, and he would improve if this were worked on.

Here's a pole drill that I think would work for Pedro:

Have him put his hands in is normal position in front of his body, and then rest the ski poles on the back of his hands instead of gripping them. Have him ski (the run in the pictures would be ideal) and attempt to continue to balance the poles on the back of the hand as he makes turns.

This will force him to maintain a more "level" upper body relative to the slope as well as quiet down the hands and arm movements.

FWIW,

Mike
post #7 of 28
I'd like to see the torso more upright throughout the turn. Best drill I know for that is to hold the pole grips in reverse manner (thumbs extending along the length of the poles like holding a golf club) and extend the arms out straight to the side so there are straight lines from the shoulder to the snow. Then make turns keeping both pole baskets in contact with the snow. A couple runs of that followed by a run with the poles held normally. Repeat as needed to get the feelings for how to hold the torso more upright.

I'd address the lack of diagonal movement (looks like he moves laterally but not sufficiently forward at the same time in transitions) by skating on the flat and feeling the relationship of the hips to the foot doing the pushing. Then try skating down a very gradual slope and start turning while seeking the same feelings.
post #8 of 28
Bob you never cease to amaze me with your observation of not only skiing but also of people. I would agree with you not to force anything and take away his obvious awareness for his feet. That is too rare to compromise.

In my opinion working with people like Pedro who are aware of their feet, the best approach is to work on helping them maintain their stance while slowing down in the last part of the turn. If they achieve this everything else (poles, angulation etc) falls into place because they ski through their feet.

The idea here is to get him to continuously move without parking and riding. You have a lot of realestate to work with so I would do things like go from a stopped position pointed straight down hill. Let go and establish a good athletic stance and then roll the feet into and arc and try to go uphill as far as he can. When he is slowing down the idea is to try to move forward with your hips up the hill. Since this is not a complete turn its far easier to accomplish moving forward than in complete turns.

Another exercise is be on easy terrain and start from a slight traverse in a good athletic stance and roll both skis down hill to start a turn. Cut the turn off shortly after initiation. Gradually ramp up the slope a bit. When he can do this from a forward position try to combine this exercise with the first exercise.

Finally end with not going to a complete stop uphill but cut it short and push forward over the top and into another turn. Patience is the key to making it all happen. What you are doing is working on being forward in different phases of the turn transition. A person who has a very good awareness of their feet will benefit greatly as this is all body awareness and positioning through the feet.
post #9 of 28

I would rather be surfin...

Great skiing and great photos! Ths cameraman should be as proud as Pedro .

Insted of raising his outside arm in the 3 first photos he should be lowering it. He needs to create some tention between outside ski boot and outside arm fist. Lowering his arm would increse angulation and improve edge hold. Also he could skip the pole plant just for the heck of it. Now there is a little bit of reaching involved. Basicly the first part of the turn is great. Good tipping of skis and good hip movement. Both shafts work well together and in the second last photo his stance and posture could not be better. But then in the last frame he should be lowering the outside arm insted of raising it. Here is an example:
http://ski.topeverything.com/default...nt&ID=334FC3D1

People talk about shoulders level but I would like to underline that the head should be leveled or actually upright (ears or eyes leveled). Also keep looking ahead down the slope and not directly in the direction you are turning. Look that way too but ahead of time and dont turn your hed that much. I dont know if there is a problem with keeping the skis in a carve all the way through the turn but if that is a problem (hard to tell from photos because snow is probably soft and therefore spraying) that could be something to work on.

Great skiing.

Tom

EDIT, note that my quick and compressed ma was made before reading other posts for not being biassed by other peoples opinions.
post #10 of 28
Photo 4, knee looks like it has too much flex with respect to the rest of the joints (hips,ankles) putting him a bit back. He can get away with it because he's athletic but his stance could be more efficient.

Photo 1, hips are way inside and shoulders are tilted inside. The excessive knee flex may be enabling this.

You could work on getting the stance a bit taller by opening knee up and then getting the alignment better. Hands more level. Not so much lead with the inside hand and the outside shoulder dropping back and up. More of an even "C" flex shape throughout the whole body instead of just the hips.
post #11 of 28
Nice skiing. I might have him try lifting his inside hip starting about where he is in the second from last photo. This should help him get the most angulation from the hips before he tips his spine laterally to the outside, and it should also help him engage the core muscles that help with stability and lateral spine flexing to help him finish off his angulation, and stack more over his outside ski. Making and keeping him long from the inside shoulder to the outside foot.

So inside hip lifts up early in the turn and moves slowly up and forward as the turn progresses. Then have him really work this even earlier in the turn and see what it does for him.
post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the great comments so far. There's nothing that's been posted so far that I would disagree with and I love some of the drill suggestions.

One of the concepts I was struggling with was how much to try to modify his banking/tilting habit. I know it's coming from his surfing and he's got those surfing habits far more ingrained than his skiing movements. We had just started working on that before he and his family left Jackson and he probably won't be skiing again until next Christmas.

So, how do you all handle a situation where someone has a movement habit that's coming from a different sport but that set of movements is holding back the person's development as a skier? I was concerned about trying to make TOO radical a change in how he balances on skis. I mean, let's face it, those are DARNED good turns for someone with no more experience than he has.

On the other hand, Pedro is young, he's athletic, he's totally open to trying new things - maybe I just need to insist that when he's skiing it requires different movements than when he's surfing. Maybe it wouldn't be as hard for him to switch gears as my mind is telling me it might be.

I've invited Pedro to come on here and ask questions in person, so we'll see if he joins in.

Anyway, thanks again. I'll reply more directly to several of your individual comments when I have a bit more time.
post #13 of 28
Bob, I spent a lot more years surfing then skiing. It's nice to see a Surfer taking to two planks over a snowboard.
leaning to the inside as you said is a carry over from surfing. On a positive note he isn't leaning back. It is common for someone who surfs to try turn from the backseat. With a surfboard you weight to the tail to execute a turn.
post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
[snip]

One of the concepts I was struggling with was how much to try to modify his banking/tilting habit. I know it's coming from his surfing and he's got those surfing habits far more ingrained than his skiing movements. [snip]
If he's skiing that well at only 8-10 days/year, it's likely becuase of the surfing, not in spite of it. Plus I could put up photos of Maier and other technical gods in close to the same banked positions. Why mess with success?

The getting back also looks derived from surfing, I'd just try to get him slightly more forward only at the start of the next turn (which he's doing well anyway).

What does he want to do skiing-wise that he is currently technically limited from doing?
post #15 of 28
IMO, he could best benefit by being shown what hip angulation really feels like.

I'm sure you know the drill: have him stand above you, with skis across the fall line. Have hime grab your pole, and pull. Ask him to face you, and especially get his hips square to you with shoulders level. Then ask him to do it wrong, square to the skis. Let him feel the difference in strength and stability. End drill by doing it right.

Then ask him to put that into his turns as the pressure builds. Tell him that he'll be more towards the sides of the trails than downhill.

You can tweak the alignment of the pelvis/feet/shoulders after he "gets it going" in the turn. Tell him to use the hands out-front and level as feedback for his alignment -- a strong/active core helps to give him that feedback.
post #16 of 28
Bob,

I'll throw my $0.02 in to the mix. As others have said, Pedro appears to have strong edging skills and strong balancing skills. I like frames #2 and #7. Less so for frames 4,5 and 8. The two areas where I see room for improvement are managing pressure and stance. (BTW, see if you can find a copy of PSIA's Visual cues for movement analysis. There's a frame in there under Pressure control, that I think looks very similar to frame #8). I also think that these two things are related to each other. These things have already been picked up on by the other posters here. Flexing the ankles more, less flex in the knees, etc. I like the suggestion of bringing the hip up, or as I think I would phrase it, not letting it get so far inside the turn. I think it's causing pedro to get too much on his inside foot. See frames 1 and 6 for reference. In both of those frames, you can see that there is a (very) slight divergence between the inside and outside ski. I'm thinking that this is due to the fact that there isn't sufficient pressure on the outside ski and it's lagging behind as the inside ski hooks up under lots of pressure and high edge angle.

The other thing that's very obvious, and again folks have picked up on is the lack of upper body discipline, esp with the hands. So if it were me, I think I'd talk about such things, and I've got a very simple "drill" that could possibly tie these two things together. It's the "shift into 3rd gear" move with the hand at the pole plant. This is one I normally use with beginning bump skiers to get the hands in a better position and to move the upper body forward. If you've never heard of it or seen it, it's really quite simple, at the pole touch instead of just flicking the wrist as we normally do, you push the hand/pole forward just like you are shifting a manual transmission car into 3rd gear. I think what I would use as mental cues would be to talk about having the upper body "follow" the hand. It is simply movement with the hand to get the mind to think about moving the body forward into the turn. As I'm writing this I might just even have him think about having the whole body follow the hand (as it "goes over the top"), starting from flexing the ankles forward and moving upwards. I think I would also talk about using this same move to keep the hip a little higher, by promoting a (slight) bit more verticality in the legs to keep the hip from getting too far inside. To tie this same move into taming the "wild" outside hand, I'd have him start thinking about the next pole touch as soon as the skis cross the fall line. Start looking ahead and getting ready for the "gear change" very early.

As to the carry over muscle memory from other sports, the best strategy is to try and highlight the good things they bring to the table and make them aware of the difference in what we need to do and what they are doing in the less than good things. Most athletes have a pretty good awareness of their bodies and if you give them feedback at just the right moment, they can be very good at sensing the feedback and making the needed change. They should already have a good sense of feeling "A" as opposed to feeling "B". FWIW, the very best student I ever had was a pro surfer. We went from never having skis on to parallel skiing on easy blue runs in just over an hour. The second best student I ever had was a "retired" ballerina. I think she was 30. Very similar results.


Good luck,
L
post #17 of 28
Based on the 2.5 turns,

Add 8 strips of duct tape under his big toe right ski edge. He's tilting more on that side to find the same edge stability he has on his left foot - but, can't find it.

Compare photos 2-3 and 6-7. Ah! Utilize a Pole Touch. Left and right. A slight reach down the hill. Halfway between the bellies of two consecutive turns. Nice.

Talk about surfing. He clearly understands upper/lower body separation - watching surfers 'cut back' is an amazingly athletic move - certainly not a position - active movements in opposite directions. Show him your upper body rhythm. He'll get it.
post #18 of 28
Well, I am going to suggest that you need a "why?" before you change anything. In those conditions on that hill with those skis, why angulate more? What would it really buy you? More purchase on the snow? I don't think so. A more "correct" look? Maybe, but I'm not sure that "correct" is important in this case.

I like it.

Encourage him to think about balancing along the inside edge of the downhill ski primarily. Like slicing with a knife. Unlike a surfboard, you want to align your balance there, and not on the inside of your stance (the inside edge of the board). You might even play with some one-legged or feel good/feel bad turns (the later are all outside ski/all inside ski drills) so that he can see how they feel to him.

I wouldn't want to mess with it very much, frankly. Let his skiing develop naturally by guiding him to understand the results that you want him to find at the snow rather than body position that you'd like him to model.
post #19 of 28
Yeah, that cord is pretty annoying! I agree about the outside hand being too high and I don't think it's unimportant. A couple of ideas - you might ask him to bring that hand/arm down and in a bit and imagine it's connected to the articulating outside knee. I think there's a balance/mechanical realationship there. Also, for me high hands feel like weight being suspended off the snow - something in the rib cage and spine, I think. The opposite of what you want. Relax the arms down and allow the centered weight to drop through the body onto the skis. It's a bit hard to tell from the photos but it looks like he gets into a nice carve early and stays in it through the middle portion of the turn but gives up and washes his skis at the end in both turns. He appears to be dumping speed. That might well be a surfing habit. You could ask him to make sure he keeps the skis steering, follows through completely in a carve and inspects the tracks to prove what's happening. Tracks can tell a lot.

Send us a little snow? Just a little, please?
post #20 of 28
Is the point of further schooling him to make him look pretty, or to let him ski more terrain?

If the latter, he's obviously doing just fine on the groomers and has a great feel for his balance. Put him in the chop on each side and start teaching him how to ski that. If his technique really is wrong, he'll feel it and adjust.
post #21 of 28
good post ssh!

Does he surf regular or goofy? I would guess regular...
post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
Pedro only skis about 8-10 days a year, but he's very athletic and absolutely loves skiing. His background is surfing, which will probably be quite evident in the photos.

He loves the feeling of carving turns (in his mind, it's very similar to cuts on a surfboard) and wants to learn as much as possible. He and I both are looking for suggestions on drills and movements that will help improve his skiing.
Skiing is much easier than surfing. That's all!

Btw. My friend who snowboarded about 10 years and then changed back to skis looks pretty similar! There must be something about the sideways stance vs. forward. I agree with Spatters: moguls, crud, pow, tight trees, short old school SL turns --> I've teached these to my ex-snowboarding friends to get rid of park'n'ride and get more separate leg movement and/or more upper body/lower body separation. What I've noticed ex-boarders get carving groomers pretty easily but get'em into to the tight trees, moguls or steeps, they're in trouble...

That hip angulation thing BigE mentioned is pretty easy to demonstrate but IMHO not that easy to get into the student's skiing.

(And no, I don't have any formal instructor education...)
post #23 of 28
interesting observation
post #24 of 28
Jan 10, 2007

To all responders:

My deepest thanks to all of you, since you could have been doing a MA on all my deeply ingrained bad habits.

I've been skiing for 20+ years and for the the last 15+ years have averaged 30+ days a season, so you can understand the "deep jealousy and hostility" I have towards this young upstart. Man, with at least 10 times the skiing days over him, I wish I could ski like him and demonstrate his "angulation".

May I venture to say that the Erik Schlopy drill might help this skier with his dropping of the inside hand? Also, I am guessing now, in picture 3, if he could decrease the lead of the uphill ski, maybe his COM would not be back. I'm saying this because these are the same mistakes (in addition to banking, tipping, leading with the head, DROPPING the INSIDE hand, etc) I make and what my Instructor has told me how to correct (also holding the poles out to the sides with both baskets touching the snow ref: K Brownson).

Again, many thanks, and I will spend sometime reading, thinking, analyzing and discussing with my Instructor your comments.

Bash on, regardless.

CharlieP
post #25 of 28
Thread Starter 
I'm finally getting around to thanking everyone for their participation. This has been a great learning experience for me as well as Pedro.

Here are some specific replies to your comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxjl View Post
At least he has the right skis...

... Put him in a NASTAR course and see what happens.
Yeah. I couldn't get him to get *off* those SuperShapes, even when it snowed. Smart young man.

I did put him in a NASTAR course and he's pretty darn fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Si View Post

One thing interesting is what appears to be the "upside down" position in the "high C" part of the turn. This implies early edge edge engagement in the new turn - a very positive thing.

Finally, is that Grand?
Yes. He gets into a very early edge engagement when carving turns on the groomers. We're working a little on translating that skill over into bumps and crud.

Yes, it is Grand, and yes, it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volklskier1 View Post

2. Put poles in one hand. Hold uphill hand and high then pass them from uphill hand to downhill hand behind back at start of turn.

While he is showing good angles he is essentially banking. That's why he holds that opposite hanmd so high. Very surf like.
Yeah. We know that the hands are one key to getting him into a "better" position. I like that drill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckimson View Post
If only all my students skied like this guy!

... Here's a pole drill that I think would work for Pedro:

Have him put his hands in is normal position in front of his body, and then rest the ski poles on the back of his hands instead of gripping them. Have him ski (the run in the pictures would be ideal) and attempt to continue to balance the poles on the back of the hand as he makes turns.

This will force him to maintain a more "level" upper body relative to the slope as well as quiet down the hands and arm movements.
I've never heard that one, so thanks for the tip. It sounds tough. I'm going to try it myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

I'd address the lack of diagonal movement (looks like he moves laterally but not sufficiently forward at the same time in transitions) by skating on the flat and feeling the relationship of the hips to the foot doing the pushing. Then try skating down a very gradual slope and start turning while seeking the same feelings.
Very good observation. We've talked a little bit about moving more aggressively into the turn, but didn't really key on it. I like that suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

In my opinion working with people like Pedro who are aware of their feet, the best approach is to work on helping them maintain their stance while slowing down in the last part of the turn. If they achieve this everything else (poles, angulation etc) falls into place because they ski through their feet.

The idea here is to get him to continuously move without parking and riding. You have a lot of realestate to work with so I would do things like go from a stopped position pointed straight down hill. Let go and establish a good athletic stance and then roll the feet into and arc and try to go uphill as far as he can. When he is slowing down the idea is to try to move forward with your hips up the hill. Since this is not a complete turn its far easier to accomplish moving forward than in complete turns.

Another exercise is be on easy terrain and start from a slight traverse in a good athletic stance and roll both skis down hill to start a turn. Cut the turn off shortly after initiation. Gradually ramp up the slope a bit. When he can do this from a forward position try to combine this exercise with the first exercise.

Finally end with not going to a complete stop uphill but cut it short and push forward over the top and into another turn. Patience is the key to making it all happen. What you are doing is working on being forward in different phases of the turn transition. A person who has a very good awareness of their feet will benefit greatly as this is all body awareness and positioning through the feet.
Another really good progression, Pierre. He actually likes trying to carve uphill, so adding the hips forward and roll move will be something he would enjoy and learn from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

People talk about shoulders level but I would like to underline that the head should be leveled or actually upright (ears or eyes leveled). Also keep looking ahead down the slope and not directly in the direction you are turning. Look that way too but ahead of time and dont turn your hed that much...
Good observation. We sat down with these photos and walked through his body position. We talked about how a lot of his positions probably come from the surfing.

The thing is, he's a very quick study and he wants to improve all facets of his skiing. He's starting to understand that while much of that upper body movement is desired (and maybe even necessary - I don't know) in surfing, it's causing him some problems in skiing. All these comments will help underscore that for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RicB View Post
...
So inside hip lifts up early in the turn and moves slowly up and forward as the turn progresses. Then have him really work this even earlier in the turn and see what it does for him.
Oooh. I like that! I would think that would also help with the forward projection into the next turn, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post
What does he want to do skiing-wise that he is currently technically limited from doing?
Great question, CTK.

He loves to ski steep, junky bumps and that's a place where his banking and upper body movements make things start to fall apart to some degree. He wants to improve that. Also, like all of us, he just wants to improve in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigE View Post
IMO, he could best benefit by being shown what hip angulation really feels like.
You're right. He already knows what it feels like to ride the skis' edges. Adding a really strong hip to the equation would probably just amplify those sensations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie View Post
The other thing that's very obvious, and again folks have picked up on is the lack of upper body discipline, esp with the hands. So if it were me, I think I'd talk about such things, and I've got a very simple "drill" that could possibly tie these two things together. It's the "shift into 3rd gear" move with the hand at the pole plant. This is one I normally use with beginning bump skiers to get the hands in a better position and to move the upper body forward. If you've never heard of it or seen it, it's really quite simple, at the pole touch instead of just flicking the wrist as we normally do, you push the hand/pole forward just like you are shifting a manual transmission car into 3rd gear.
I really like this one too, Lonnie. I've already been playing around with it myself the last few days. It's a great, easy-to-understand-and-communicate drill.

This is also very good for Pedro because pole plants are something he needs to work on anyway. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whygimf View Post
Based on the 2.5 turns,

Add 8 strips of duct tape under his big toe right ski edge. He's tilting more on that side to find the same edge stability he has on his left foot - but, can't find it.

Compare photos 2-3 and 6-7. Ah! Utilize a Pole Touch. Left and right. A slight reach down the hill. Halfway between the bellies of two consecutive turns. Nice.

Talk about surfing. He clearly understands upper/lower body separation - watching surfers 'cut back' is an amazingly athletic move - certainly not a position - active movements in opposite directions. Show him your upper body rhythm. He'll get it.
That's interesting. I know there's a difference between his left turns and his right turns in these condtions, but it seems to go away when he's not "carving". We'll try the duct tape idea when he comes out again next winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post
Well, I am going to suggest that you need a "why?" before you change anything. In those conditions on that hill with those skis, why angulate more? What would it really buy you? More purchase on the snow? I don't think so. A more "correct" look? Maybe, but I'm not sure that "correct" is important in this case.

I like it.

Encourage him to think about balancing along the inside edge of the downhill ski primarily. Like slicing with a knife. Unlike a surfboard, you want to align your balance there, and not on the inside of your stance (the inside edge of the board). You might even play with some one-legged or feel good/feel bad turns (the later are all outside ski/all inside ski drills) so that he can see how they feel to him.

I wouldn't want to mess with it very much, frankly. Let his skiing develop naturally by guiding him to understand the results that you want him to find at the snow rather than body position that you'd like him to model.
You're right about the "why". I think more than anything he wants to become a better and better skier, whatever that means. He truly gets a great deal of joy out of skiing - probably as much as anybody I've ever skied with.

We definitely talked about the inside-ski dominance. When he's carving, that's a very noticeable trait of his skiing. It's hard for me to relate to, of course, because I'm the exact opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midfielder View Post
Yeah, that cord is pretty annoying! I agree about the outside hand being too high and I don't think it's unimportant.
I agree, too. That'll be our main focus next winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spatters View Post
Is the point of further schooling him to make him look pretty, or to let him ski more terrain?

If the latter, he's obviously doing just fine on the groomers and has a great feel for his balance. Put him in the chop on each side and start teaching him how to ski that. If his technique really is wrong, he'll feel it and adjust.
He doesn't seem to care at all about looking pretty. More terrain is what he wants.

He actually does VERY well in good powder and even fairly nasty crud. Big bumps is where the problems manifest themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post
good post ssh!

Does he surf regular or goofy? I would guess regular...
I don't know. Pedro, if you're out there, how about it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiehkevarri View Post
Skiing is much easier than surfing. That's all!

What I've noticed ex-boarders get carving groomers pretty easily but get'em into to the tight trees, moguls or steeps, they're in trouble...
Co-wreck-to-mundo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP View Post
Jan 10, 2007

To all responders:

My deepest thanks to all of you, since you could have been doing a MA on all my deeply ingrained bad habits.
My sentiments exactly, CharlieP.

I think this thread was an outstanding example of the kind of generous, helping-hand expertise we have available here. It's so cool that a young skier from Brazil can get this kind of assistance from pros all around the world.
post #26 of 28
I think surfing's harder because you can't lift-n-tip... (ducking...)
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Oooh. I like that! I would think that would also help with the forward projection into the next turn, no?
Yes it does. It is really just building a strong inside half through hip angulation and counter. Reversing this movement at transition contributes to a very effective release and flow into the next with strong balanced alignment to the outside ski all the while progressively building a strong inside half lead and nice angles at the hips in the developing turn.
post #28 of 28
Bob,

Wonderfull camera work. Pedro's arms and hands are a symptom of not balancing between the skis (very evident in the first frame). He is compensating by overflexing on the outside ski (frames 2 and 3) where he should be starting to soften the angles and allow the ski to continue it's path rather than press down into it, stopping (slowing) it's forward movement so he can regain balance over it.

A drill that would force him to balance between his skis is 1000 steps with the focus of the task being to make clean tracks on each ski as he steps.
Start on wide easy blue terrain stepping from the fall line to across the hill (actually stepping up as he goes to a traverse). From there, stepping out of the turn towards the falling and continuing stepping towards the traverse. From there, stepping (spending equal time on each ski) contimousally as he describes a long turn shape. Take time to inspect the tracks for clean lines and make corrections where the tracks are smeary or there are no stepping, but turns.

this will force him to remain balanced between the 2 skis and also move diagionally out of one turn to the next and move diagionally into the turn once started (progressivly).
He should have fun doing this drill and also be challanged. From there, take it to steeper terrain and start the process over. The application to his skiing will be obivous to him (same movements, but gliding instead of stepping).

Have fun!

RW
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching