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aluminium oxide stone

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I have some new skis (HEAD Monster iM 72's), which I am going to be using in about a month or so.
I don't intend on doing anything to them at the beginning as they have the factory tune, but from what I have been reading, they may need a sharpen up after 3 days or so of skiing. I will be skiing in Europe on groomers and off piste so there is likely to be the usual mix of ice and a bit more powdery stuff.

At the moment I only have an aluminium oxide stone and sharpening tool for this purpose. I won't be using the more course file as this is only for serious edge removal, which I'm sure the skis won't need for a while.

So,
1/ Would you recommend sharpening after 3 days or just leave it as is for the whole week's skiing and then just tune up when I get back?
2/ Is an aluminium oxide stone enough? Bear in mind I'm not a racer or expert tuner. I juts want the skis to be sharp enough to carve and for recreational use. I can use this stone to polish the side and base and deburr any nick's ion the base edge but would a diamond be better?
3/ WHat are the factory edge angles of the HEAD Monster iM 72 so I can set my bevel tool accordingly?

Thanks.
post #2 of 15

Here, look at this...

...and if you have any further questions, please ask:

http://www.rmmskiracing.org/articles...ning-Part2.pdf
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Right, well...
I have a tool similar to that SKS one already and I already have an aluminium oxide stone.
So, I'm happy using that to deburr the base and side, then take off the hanging burr.
However, I need something to do the side edge sharpening. I noted it was side edge ONLY for sharpening

So what would you recommend? I'm presuming some sort of diamond here as the alu-oxide stone won't do the job.

Shopping list:
Say a 400 diamond stone? I know the moonflex ones are popular.
ceramic/natural stone or will the alu-oxide suffice for polishing as well? (Don't want to spend too much)
post #4 of 15
Hi Gordon,
IMO a lot of things will 'get the job done' as will the aluminum oxide stone up to a point. The point will best be found by the individual with time, trial and error, experience and preferences. I can keep edges sharp and functioning just fine with the aluminum oxide stone (180 grit), but my preference is to use a series of diamonds and getting a finer polish with a little finer stones. I don't feel a need for anything over a 400 grit for my preferences, others think 600 grit and some 1000 or 1500 is where it's at.

The amount of sharpening needed for your trip will also be relative to conditions and if cost is your priority, try the alum oxide for a while and if it isn't enough go for the finer diamonds the next time.....or get a finer grit diamond only as 'insurance' as I believe you'll end up wanting it someday anyway.

I use and recommend the aluminum oxide stone as a good, low cost rec tuner stone. i cannot compare it's durability to other stones, but I use it all of the time as a 'beater' or 'utility' stone for initial de-burring and case hardened edges and sometimes light de-tuning. I feel this helps to extend the life of my diamonds and can be easily replaced.
HTH
post #5 of 15

Okay...

...tell me what your tool is that's kind of like the SKS tool and we'll take it from there...but basically, if it'll accept any kind of stone or file, all you need for sharpening is an 8" mill bastard file...
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...tell me what your tool is that's kind of like the SKS tool and we'll take it from there...but basically, if it'll accept any kind of stone or file, all you need for sharpening is an 8" mill bastard file...
http://www.tools4boards.com/product....cat=191&page=1

Fits most files and stones. As mentioned, I'm only doing this recreationally and as a touch up to my edges say every few days on the slopes. SO the least I can get away with the better. I just assumed that diamonds were better for sharpening...
post #7 of 15

Diamond stones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonFreeman View Post
http://www.tools4boards.com/product....cat=191&page=1

Fits most files and stones. As mentioned, I'm only doing this recreationally and as a touch up to my edges say every few days on the slopes. SO the least I can get away with the better. I just assumed that diamonds were better for sharpening...
...are really for polishing edges, not sharpening them. You do have a multi-tool that will accept stones, files, whatever, so, per what I say in my article, get an 8 inch mill bastard file for sharpening. You already have an aluminum oxide stone; that's fine for deburring (just using the stone, you don't need to put it in the multi-tool). The aluminum oxide stone will also work for polishing, but you might want to get a medium or fine diamond stone for that...
post #8 of 15
Good points. The tool comes with a short Swiss bastard (ambiguous and controversial or what : ) file and can be used if more cutting is needed than maintenance sharpening and followed by the alum oxide stone for finer cutting and polishing.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Good information - thanks all!
I think it is probably safest, and for only the 6 days that I am skiing in a row before coming home and then going out again a few weeks later, is to just touch up and deburr with the alu-oxide stone. This must be the stone one of my instructors used on my skis on the slope side when he was teaching me carving a while ago !

Any serious sharpening work with the bastard file (only to the side edge, yes?!) I'll leave til I get home and can lob the skis on my workbench.
Any objections? :

Out of interest, I doubt a file will fit in my multi-tool (only the tools Alpinord mentioned), so don't you need something else to measure the edge angle?
post #10 of 15
For side edges, it'll accept any file diagonally or short carving files and stones along the length in the clamp and works well for rec tuning for angles from 0° to 6° (and sidewall cutting with panzer, set @ 6°). For base bevels, the short, included file (or similar) is your only option and works OK, but not great and takes a little babysitting and getting used to it's shortcomings.
HTH
post #11 of 15
To clarify the previous statement: the Xact accepts files and stones up to 100 mm along it's length for side edge work, along with longer sizes diagonally.
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post
...are really for polishing edges, not sharpening them. You do have a multi-tool that will accept stones, files, whatever, so, per what I say in my article, get an 8 inch mill bastard file for sharpening. You already have an aluminum oxide stone; that's fine for deburring (just using the stone, you don't need to put it in the multi-tool). The aluminum oxide stone will also work for polishing, but you might want to get a medium or fine diamond stone for that...
Out of interest, when you say "just using the stone, you don't need to put it in the multi-tool". Isn't there a danger of detuning the edge if you get it slightly off angle. I don't mean 45 degrees to the edge here like you'd do a proper detune of say the tips and tails, but just slightly out and you're not doing it parallel with the edge anymore when deburring?

Secondly, what's the point of polishing anyway? Just to make the edge glide through the snow better? For example, why don't people just sharpen with a bastard file and leave it at that
post #13 of 15
Polishing removes microsopic striations that are left by using a file on the suface and hardens the edge (think about sharpening a knife with successive finer stones). Of course, once you're done polishing there will still be a "micro-burr" at the edge that you could remove freehand with a gummi stone if you were so inclined

Besides, once you set the angle with the file, you don't need to use it again - polishing your edges will make them sharp again.

You should experiment and find a process that works for you. Some people can't tell the difference if there are micro-burrs on the edge. If you're one of those people, why waste the time?

Clay
post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
And is there any danger of this:
Quote:
Out of interest, when you say "just using the stone, you don't need to put it in the multi-tool". Isn't there a danger of detuning the edge if you get it slightly off angle. I don't mean 45 degrees to the edge here like you'd do a proper detune of say the tips and tails, but just slightly out and you're not doing it parallel with the edge anymore when deburring?
Thanks.
post #15 of 15
I'd say most people wouldn't notice any difference with this approach if it's once in a awhile and not SOP. Using a guide keeps things in check in between, but judicious hand stoning is very common. IMO it also helps to increase your sensitivity and skill over time.
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