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Liner cuff spoiler adjustments

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
I received some new Lange liners for my Pinnafarrina's.

These liners were from some WC 120's and have a stock spoiler made up of two "v" shaped spoiler on the outsides and two single spines inbetween.

I tried skiing in them in this stock form at Kicking Horse a few weeks back and I felt like I was skiing on my toes, my legs were almost dead after one run and it was next to impossible to ski with them. I re-installed my OEM liners after that first run and noticed a HUGE differance.

My question is how do you know how much to reduce these spoilers by?

Is there a standard that you go by? IE grind them down until you feel equal weight on your heels and balls of feet?

I feel very equal in my OEM liners, with SOLE insoles that I have added a small amount under the heels (to snug up this area and reduce heel lifting).

I have reduced the spines by 1/2 at this point but still feel slightly pressured more to my toes.

My lesson today was about getting myself more forward and my instructor felt I was still too much rearward most of the time. so...

I am thinking that leaving some spoiler in place is a good thing as this will put me a little more forward from the get go.

Comments ?
post #2 of 8
Get rid of the spoiler totally...grind it off. Sounds like your being in the rear seat is caused by being shimmed too far forward. As a result, your hips get lower and get positioned further back to balance your upper body over your lower body. I would try to mimic the positioning you have in the "old" liner and then work forward from there. Now a'days, we're all trying to stand more "upright" to get over the center of the skis. Lastly, if you feel you need a spoiler in the back of the liner, try your local ski shop...they'll have millions lying around.
post #3 of 8
Thread Starter 
I guess then the question is why do spoilers exisit? what is their purpose?

I do understand what you are saying Cantman about if you CM is moved forward too much (by spoiler) then to balance yourself so you don't topple forward, then you have to move your hips back, which I agree is completly counterproductive.

if ones boots have a non adjustable forward lean what other choices does one have to prop themselves slightly more forward as the default postion?
post #4 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marmot mb View Post
I guess then the question is why do spoilers exisit? what is their purpose?

I do understand what you are saying Cantman about if you CM is moved forward too much (by spoiler) then to balance yourself so you don't topple forward, then you have to move your hips back, which I agree is completly counterproductive.

if ones boots have a non adjustable forward lean what other choices does one have to prop themselves slightly more forward as the default postion?
To answer the last question....spoilers! Usually, any higher performance ski boot will come from the manufacturer with a spoiler (In a plastic bag that is quickly lost by the people placing the boots on display trees) and can be placed behind the top of the liner to increase forward lean.
post #5 of 8
Marmot,

Do a search (or two or three or ten...) on forward lean, fore/aft alignment, skiing in the backseat, back seat skiers, ramp angle, delta, stiff boots...etc. This topic has been covered a lot.

To answer your question about why spoilers exist: Some people need them! Sounds like maybe you don't, but we're all different. For example, I have removed the spoilers and have a riser plate under the toe of my boot, however I know others that ski a boot with the same fore/aft orientation as mine and they have the spoilers in and a riser under the heel of the boot. It is not a question of are spoilers good or bad, it is what works for you and your alignment.

Here are some animations I did a while back in the best bump technique thread showing some effects of different forward lean angles.
post #6 of 8
Thread Starter 
Who would have thought a 1/8 of an inch could make such a differance.

Just completed my lesson with a Level III. I have lessoned with him before so he was familiar with my skiing. being back was always a item of discussion before

I told him that I had put in new liners, the first outing with them I was on my toes, and that I had removed 1/2 or the spoiler material and wanted his input on my stance now.

He was very happy with my stance and said only to watch not getting back at the end of turn, otherwise he feels the new liners with some spoiler has helped alot.

from my side, I am really happy, I feel more balanced, better pressuring of the whole ski, better edge control and able to stand upright a bit more. Plus the new liners are much more snug than previous.

Guess I should have spent 1/2 hour grinding away half the spoiler a few weeks ago.
post #7 of 8
Marmotmb:
Assume since you ski Kicking Horse you live in Calgary. Stop in if you would like some help. But in general I agree with what everyone one has said and there is a ton of information on this website.

As for what the spoilers are for, Killy covered it in a book from the '60s. I quote approximately. "The stiff high backs are to catch me when I lose my balance". Manufacturers have used them as a marketing tool and state they help skiers get forward. Well maybe some, but not too damn many.

Lou
post #8 of 8
Thread Starter 
Race510. I am from Oiler country but I do have a few projects going on in Calgary so I may take you up on the offer when I go to inspect those jobs in the near future.

I feel sorry for alot of people who just put on boots as they come from the dealer and never really play with them. The few changes I have made have made a huge differance. I was amazed at the differance of this last change.
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