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base grind:needed or not for small change? - Page 2

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesgig View Post
since there is currently no snow within a few hours of here, I will get the base grind (and due to the fact that the guy at the shop said he would do it for free since my family just spend over $2500 at his shop).

Should I ask him to put on the .5 bevel or should I do it?

The reason that I am going with .5/3 over 1/3 is that I have had 1/3 for the past 3 seasons and my local mountain has become almost automatic (only 600ft vert) so I would like something that will make me pay attention a little more and make it a little more difficult.
The reason to do a .5 is that if you dislike it you can then go to a l.7 or 1 degree witout doing another grind. this will allow you to experiment some.

If you go with a 1 base bevelyou can't go back to a .5 without regrindning.

Try a .5 and report what you find. SVST makes a .7 degree base beveler if you are interested.
post #32 of 49
I got my SGs returned back to their original 0.5 base bevel last year. It took a while to get used to them again, but the payback in precision was worth it. I think I will go for a 0.5 with the SCs (they came with a 1/3 tune) when it comes time for a base grind. Until then I can live with the slop. The most noticeable benefit of the 0.5 base is you don't need as big a tipping angle before the skis start to carve. As A-man says, if you don't like the 0.5 base, it's easy to change it to 0.7 degrees without needing another base grind.
post #33 of 49
jamesgig - I don't think you've stated what kind of skis you have in this thread. What are we talking about here? What manufacturer, model, and length?

Also, what's your experience/skill level? What other skis have you owned/ridden over the past 10 years?

I'm just trying to get a feel if 0.5 degrees will be a fun challenge for you on 600' vertical hill or if it's suicide.
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
The reason to do a .5 is that if you dislike it you can then go to a l.7 or 1 degree witout doing another grind. this will allow you to experiment some.

If you go with a 1 base bevelyou can't go back to a .5 without regrindning.

Try a .5 and report what you find. SVST makes a .7 degree base beveler if you are interested.
That's a really good point.
post #35 of 49
Thread Starter 
I just bought some 05-06 Head iSupershapes 165cm.

This is(will be) my 4th season skiing and all of my instructors say that I am better than almost all of the people who ski at my local mountain and my lower body movement is just about perfect. So I would say that I am a very competent skier based on the terrain I have available.

Being able to change it is a good point.
post #36 of 49
With that info jamesgig I'm totally with Atomicman to start slow at 1.0 degree and take it from there. The Supershapes have an extremely deep sidecut (in fact I think it's still the deepest sidecut available on any retail ski). This ski is going to be very sensitive to the base bevel change. Couple that with your relative lack of skiing experience and I would compare going straight to a 0.5 degree bevel to jumping off a plane without a parachute.

If you do choose to go beyond a 1.0 degree base bevel you should definitely do 0.7 degrees before attempting 0.5 degrees.

BTW - make sure that you go with a 3 degree side bevel when you get them reset to a true 1.0 degree base bevel. That's your best choice for edge hold in the East (I even prefer it in the West).
post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
With that info jamesgig I'm totally with Atomicman to start slow at 1.0 degree and take it from there. The Supershapes have an extremely deep sidecut (in fact I think it's still the deepest sidecut available on any retail ski). This ski is going to be very sensitive to the base bevel change. Couple that with your relative lack of skiing experience and I would compare going straight to a 0.5 degree bevel to jumping off a plane without a parachute.

If you do choose to go beyond a 1.0 degree base bevel you should definitely do 0.7 degrees before attempting 0.5 degrees.

BTW - make sure that you go with a 3 degree side bevel when you get them reset to a true 1.0 degree base bevel. That's your best choice for edge hold in the East (I even prefer it in the West).
Noodler, I think you got confused.:

He must start with a .5 not a 1 degree and then if unsatisfactory increase the bevel progressively to a .7 & then a 1 degree if the .5 & .7 prove to be unsatisfactory for him. If he starts with a 1 and finds it too slippery (although a true 1 degree is almost always fine except for high level slalom racing) he cannot decrease the amount of base bevel back to a .5 or .7 without a grind. .

Also, the chioce of base bevel although somewhat dictated (in racing anyway) by the steepness of the hill, is more dictated by the type of snow yhe will be skiing on.

For instance, softer packed powder will not be as demanding as say Sun Valley's manmade very dry snow, (which is extremely demanding even with a 1 degree)

Also snow with an very high water content can be very demanding with less base bevel.
post #38 of 49
Head race skis and their carvers have a factory 1* base and 1.5* side edge bevel, for the record.
post #39 of 49
Ack! - I was asleep at the wheel on my last response. A-man is absolutely right. You must start at the most aggressive base bevel (0.5 in this case) and work the other way. I just wasn't thinking early this morning.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJguy View Post
Head race skis and their carvers have a factory 1* base and 1.5* side edge bevel, for the record.
I seriously doubt a 1.5 degree side edge. No one makes a 1.5 side edge beveler that would allow you to maintain that edge angle.

they are either a 1/1 or a 1/2
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
I seriously doubt a 1.5 degree side edge. No one makes a 1.5 side edge beveler that would allow you to maintain that edge angle.

they are either a 1/1 or a 1/2
Well then the tech at Head is a liar. Call them yourself and see: 203-855-8666.

Incidentally I have a SVST WC edge guide that is 1* and I add one of their shims to it to give it the additional .5*....thats how I roll


1/1 are the edges of their cruiser and intermediate level skis.
post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJguy View Post
Well then the tech at Head is a liar. Call them yourself and see: 203-855-8666.

Incidentally I have a SVST WC edge guide that is 1* and I add one of their shims to it to give it the additional .5*....thats how I roll


1/1 are the edges of their cruiser and intermediate level skis.
SVST has never offered a .5 degree shim before. this must be something very recently added.

With that said, I would still use a 2 or 3 degree side edge angle.
post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
SVST has never offered a .5 degree shim before. this must be something very recently added.

With that said, I would still use a 2 or 3 degree side edge angle.
I dont know how recent but they have had it for at least a year, thats when I bought mine to work on my RD GS skis. I thought of going to 3* also, since its what all the Atomic guys run, but the consensus from the boys on the NASTAR forum was to keep it at the stock bevel, so thats what I did for now.
post #44 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJguy View Post
I dont know how recent but they have had it for at least a year, thats when I bought mine to work on my RD GS skis. I thought of going to 3* also, since its what all the Atomic guys run, but the consensus from the boys on the NASTAR forum was to keep it at the stock bevel, so thats what I did for now.

that is true, all Atomics are a recommended 3 degree side edge. you can certainly go to a three (My guess is you'll never go back to a 1.5) but if you did not like it, unlike base bevel you can easily return to a 1.5 side edge bevel without regrinding or anything else, you just redo your side edge.
post #45 of 49
Thread Starter 
I am diffidently starting with a .5/3 and if it turns out to be too demanding, I will tune it back.

how much pressure do I need to apply to the file to set the edges?
post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesgig View Post
I am diffidently starting with a .5/3 and if it turns out to be too demanding, I will tune it back.

how much pressure do I need to apply to the file to set the edges?
Light pressure directly over the edge. do not bend the file. count your number of passes and do each edge evenly (same number of overlapping strokes) pulling the file toward your with the tang pointing away (if your file has a tang.

I start by making 4 overlapping shorter strokes depending on ski length. then i do 3 strokes then I do 2 overlapping. then i do one or 2 non stop the entire ski length. So i end up with 4 to 5 passes total per base edge with a file.

then i do not diamond file my base edge. You should use the finest file you can find to do your base edge in the first place. I only polish the base edge after filing with a very hard TOKO finishing block or a very hard gummi stone.

read the Base edge & side edge paragraphs!

http://www.holmenkol.us/myadmin/data...our%20Skis.pdf
post #47 of 49
The only thing I'd add to A-man's post is to use a marker when working with your edges. Counting passes is good, but I like to "color" my edges for any work to keep track of what I've "touched".

What guide are you planning to use to do the base bevel?
post #48 of 49
Thread Starter 
beast base beveler
post #49 of 49
It is possible to over-bevel with the Beast guide. Be careful of the pressure management on the file when using it. Definitely use the marker to keep track of how much edge you've hit.

Note that if you're not removing any marker in the first few passes with the file STOP. The base grind wasn't aggressive enough and you're skis aren't flat through to the edges. Make sure that when you take them in for the grind that you tell them it's your intention to reset the base bevels and that the grind needs to get all the way down to the outside of the edges.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › base grind:needed or not for small change?