Originally Posted by Weems
I don't think Fastman is included in your Firebug group. He has a powerful concern about keeping it open. I'm just not as concerned or worried as he is.
Nope, I wouldn't consider Fastman a Firebug either. When he wants to use Fire
he tends to yell "Clear the Room of all but ... Him
...!" and whips out the Flamethrower. We know that it's coming, we know why
it's coming and we know where it's directed. His is not a continuously subversive effort with a hidden agenda.
Nope, I'm referring to those insidious individuals who pounce on every opportunity to inject a mean-spirited scoff or 'slight' at anything outside their own doctrine. They work tirelessly to undermine legitimate helpful discussions, investigations and explorations and deftly manipulate every such discussion into their own preferred frame of proselytizing. It is this ceaseless manipulation from all angles that sparks so many Fires and needs corrective attention.
I'd like to see someone authorized to make the necessary judgement calls (right or wrong) to penalize this kind of Bad Behavior before each Fire escalates.
Originally Posted by Nolo
In this thread we seem to have jumped the rails of the opening question and are nosing around the edges of a policy to deal with agents who stifle learning at epicski's technique and instruction forum.
Finding the right words to correctly describe what is happening is the first step to disabling it.
"Agents" "Intent to Stifle" and other such words or phrases enable skeptical participants to better assess 'spin infested' postings and gain support for evictions - both temporary and permanent.
Also, I also think the issue is not so much one of 'Free Speech' as it is one of deliberate Bad Behavior
that is conducted to a self-interested and undermining purpose.
NOPE - Not
gonna play that game with you - and yes, YOU are one of the deliberate Firebugs to which I refer. I'll not worry about convincing the whole forum of this statement by digging thru years of your text then having you explain-away each text-segment with an easily created 'innocence spin'.
As I've stated elsewhere, you have considerable knowledge and are a fine participant on these forums when you don't play these spin games to carefully redirect discussions into your subversive evangelical re-presentation of pmts and the sins of PSIA.
Nope, I've no interest in convincing you
that something is wrong and needs to be done about it - I'm interested in convincing the Powers that Be that something is wrong and something should be done about it. Nothing personal intended Max. I'd probably have a great time skiing with you - but as Nolo states it - this is Teaching and Technical Forum. It's not intended for evangelizing a cult devoted to its own in-your-face brand of Ski Snobbery.
And NO, I will not just put you on 'Ignore' any more than I will ignore Firebugs roving around my neighborhood. The Firebug doesn't get to ask the neighbors to "Look Away if you don't like it."
I would suggest that you yourself learned how to ski
using techniques you happended to find
in a particular place and apply correctly. Had you found other reasonable techniques in other places, that would also have worked for you. And it would still be *you* who was successful, not the technique nor the place you got it from.
The 'War' you perceive isn't really a war, it's more of a continuous and deliberate agitation (sometimes blatent, mostly subversive). The Fires we see are a result of our built-up reaction to this ongoing irritation. The pmts cult seems to acquire most of its disciples by luring them in thru the badmouthing of all other ideas, organizations and techniques not of pmts. That
in particular is why so many of us get fed up with them. It's not their techniques we object to - it's their highly frustrating and intentionally destructive marketing plan that we're so very tired of.
The text clipped & pasted by B_R above shows the problem clearly: A blatent 'Us vs. Them' mantra where the leader of the cult cooingly strokes
his followers (the us's) while bashing and decrying the 'thems'. This powerfully manipulates them thru their egos. Also note the classic (and highly manipulative) "I/We are the downtrodden victims, the proud few martyrs, the only ones who see the truth..."
As you can see, the cult leader relys heavily on emotional and psychological manipulation to gain and retain new followers. Once on board, the enthralled are pulled down the classic path of "Becoming like those we associate with..." and embark on their own Missionary Quest to attract others while indulging themselves in their own specialness as one of the fold. Reminds me of the Moonies back in the 1970's.
Just a bunch of Self-Stroking Masseuses
if you ask me.
I too tire of this endless problem but think we should not let the Firebugs get fully away yet again. Nolo, please start a discussion betwixt the Monitors and see if there isn't some mechanism by which they can more easily identify deliberately agitating behavior and deal with it.
A largely passive Monitor may be fine in most cases but I think we need a few Monitor Lizards ready to pounce on the more subtle and poisonous Snakes before their flammable venom yields its typical result.