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PMTS near Boston?

post #1 of 256
Thread Starter 
Noob first posting.

Just bought a pair of 165 RX6's - thanks to the group! - and both of the Koolaid Books Expert One and Two and I want to go the PMTS route.

Me - 48
200 lbs
5' 8"
Intermediate


Thanks.
post #2 of 256
So, why are you posting here?
post #3 of 256
Maybe because this is a forum about ski technique and instruction? Welcome to Epicski, Ed! I have no idea where you get PMTS. I think their website is Realskiers.com.
post #4 of 256
post #5 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
So, why are you posting here?

Is this inclusive? Is this polite? Moderators should have the higher standard of behavior.
There have been several mostly civil discussions of PMTS. Let's keep the airwaves clear of bad vibes this year.
post #6 of 256

lcs....if you want polite,check out tgr

you will lol. its moderated by some guy named JONG
post #7 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCS View Post

Is this inclusive? Is this polite? Moderators should have the higher standard of behavior.
There have been several mostly civil discussions of PMTS. Let's keep the airwaves clear of bad vibes this year.
No it's not and it was a reply out of frustration from some behind the scenes happenings. It shouldn't be here and please accept my apologies. I don't want to be compared and included with those who instigate.
post #8 of 256
Thread Starter 
Thanks to some of the posters for their greetings and for pointing me in the right direction for my quest.
post #9 of 256
Welcome to EpicSki, Edseas2. I'm not aware of any pmts-affiliated ski schools in New England. In fact, their website lists only two small affiliated schools anywhere--one in Wisconsin and one in Colorado. I think their site also lists a few instructors trained in pmts, and the resorts where you can find them--don't know if any are in your area. If you really want an "official" pmts lesson, you may need to inquire about one of the camps they put together somewhere. Otherwise just tell the supervisor at any local ski school exactly what you're interested in, and (despite the pmts people's protestations to the contrary), you should find a good instructor who can deliver. You've read the books. You know what you want. If you don't get it, go back and get your money back!

If you listen to the pmts people, they'll try to convince you that what they offer is unique and superior to what you'll find elsewhere. I promise you that you can find good and knowledgeable instructors everywhere who are well-versed in the same concepts, and who can guide your skiing anywhere you want it to go, to whatever extent you are prepared to take it.

You can also find incompetent instructors everywhere, so be picky! Ask for a certified instructor, and tell the desk you will ask for your money back if you don't get what you pay for. If you like, ask if they have someone on the staff who is particularly familiar with pmts. Don't be surprised if you draw a blank on that, but don't be disappointed either. When you find a good instructor, explain your understanding of pmts, why you like it, and exactly what you hope to accomplish, and believe me--the instructor will understand and be able to take it from there.

Despite marketing-motivated claims to the contrary, it's really all about skiing, and great skiing is universal. All great pros make it a lifetime professional pursuit to learn all they can about the sport, from every possible source. They all look at the same great skiers and world-class competitors and derive their technical foundation from diligent analysis of what the world's best are doing. The very, very best pros do this without prejudice, with an open mind, and without the restriction of dogmatic attachment to any particular set of beliefs. They are flexible, thorough, and grounded on a solid understanding of skiing movements and techniques, and they are able to tie effective techniques to any outcome you desire. And they may be affiliated with pmts, or any national or international instructor association. Or not. (Unfortunately, there are also incompetent instructors affiliated with all instructor associations.)

So--the key to getting a great lesson, besides finding a great instructor, is to be clear on what you want. Is it really pmts, a particular technique, or a particular progression, or is it skiing? What I mean by that is that you should be clear on what it is you love about skiing--what are your goals, both short and long-term? What is it about pmts that turns you on? Is it really pmts itself, or is it some outcome, some new capability you want to master, some sensation or thrill you seek, that you believe pmts will deliver? Is it "parallel"? (And if so, what is it, really, about "parallel" that intrigues and entices you?) Carved turns? "Control"? Win a NASTAR medal? Master powder skiing, steeps, ice, or bumps? Impress your friends, and strangers from the chairlift? The thrill of speed? Once you know what you want to accomplish, tell your instructor, and you'll be amazed what you can accomplish. The best instructors, regardless of their affiliation, will create a dogma-free learning experience tailored just for you.

Whether you believe that the techniques you'd learn in a pmts lesson are unique or not (you know where I stand, but you need not take my word--or anyone else's--on that), I submit that no technique stands alone as an end in itself. Is it really the technique that you're looking for, or is it something that you believe that technique might do for you that truly inspires you? Technique should serve your interests--not the other way around--don't you think? So what interests you? And if you say "good technique," you are not alone. But I'll repeat--there is no such thing as "good technique" in itself, no such thing as "good technique" until you tie it to an outcome. When you do, all great instructors can teach it!

Alpine World Cup racers, mogul competitors, big mountain free-skiers--they all apply the full gamut of techniques, even within a single run, depending on their intent and the outcome they seek at any given moment. My advice, which you are surely free to ignore, is to avoid dogmatic attachment to any specific technique, and instead to develop the broad spectrum of skills that will take you anywhere you want to go, and that will let you apply any technique, any time, as you like or as you need.

Best regards,
Bob
post #10 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
No it's not and it was a reply out of frustration from some behind the scenes happenings. It shouldn't be here and please accept my apologies. I don't want to be compared and included with those who instigate.
, .
post #11 of 256
Thread Starter 
Basically, I tried traditional lessons when I was beginning to ski (about 40 years ago) and never progressed beyond intermediate level although I did take a lot of lessons over the years.

I feel that for me, its time that I tried something new hence my interest in PMTS.

Based on many years of experience in the martial arts, I learned that I do much better with a consistent, explainable, system (in my case I ended up studying Ving Tsun) that doesn't deviate much from one instructor to the other and prepares me, in advance, for knowing what will follow in the next lesson(s).

Thanks for your advice.
post #12 of 256
edseas2, I have the same question as Lars.

Why are you wasting your time here? You know what you want and you've been given the link to the PMTS site,,, why not go there to get the info you need to pursue your chosen path? There you'll certainly be given more knowledgeable directive on how to proceed down the road you believe to be your best choice.
post #13 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
edseas2, I have the same question as Lars.

Why are you wasting your time here? You know what you want and you've been given the link to the PMTS site,,, why not go there to get the info you need to pursue your chosen path? There you'll certainly be given more knowledgeable directive on how to proceed down the road you believe to be your best choice.

Is there something wrong with discussing PMTS here? There are enough Epic members that practice PMTS to answer any PMTS specific questions.
post #14 of 256
Thread Starter 

Pmts?

I honestly had no idea that you guys were so exclusive. I'm certainly not trying to ruffle feathers and I was (I thought) respectfully replying to an instructor's post about why I chose to follow PMTS.

In my world, when a fellow martial artist from another style pays us a visit (with respect) at our studio, we are always extremely polite (similar to some members here) and are happy to discuss techniques, theories, training methods with him/her.

Should skiing be any different?
post #15 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by edseas2 View Post
I honestly had no idea that you guys were so exclusive. I'm certainly not trying to ruffle feathers and I was (I thought) respectfully replying to an instructor's post about why I chose to follow PMTS.
Well Epic isn't supposed to be exclusive. Its supposed to be system agnostic, but as you have seen that's not always the case.
post #16 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Is there something wrong with discussing PMTS here? There are enough Epic members that practice PMTS to answer any PMTS specific questions.
There is nothing wrong with discussing it here. But I do find it curious that you and the other supporters of your favorite system insist on discussing it here when the master himself has made it clear that the proper place to discuss his system is on his site. At the same time any discussions on his site of other teaching methods or questioning of the master are quickly deleted and anyone posting anything he, or you, disagree with are banned. Hardly seems fair to me, maybe you can explain that.

In that context I think Rick has asked a fair question that deserves a fair answer. What say you?
post #17 of 256
Thread Starter 
Read the first and second line of my post where I wrote that I was responding to an instructor's question - say I.
post #18 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
Well Epic isn't supposed to be exclusive. Its supposed to be system agnostic, but as you have seen that's not always the case.
The master's site is certainly exclusive though, isn't it.
post #19 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by edseas2 View Post
Read the first and second line of my post where I wrote that I was responding to an instructor's question - say I.
edseas2,

My question was directed to Max not you. Sorry for the confusion.
post #20 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA View Post
There is nothing wrong with discussing it here. But I do find it curious that you and the other supporters of your favorite system insist on discussing it here when the master himself has made it clear that the proper place to discuss his system is on his site. At the same time any discussions on his site of other teaching methods or questioning of the master are quickly deleted and anyone posting anything he, or you, disagree with are banned. Hardly seems fair to me, maybe you can explain that.

In that context I think Rick has asked a fair question that deserves a fair answer. What say you?
Fair? What do you mean fair? Epic is a collection of avid skiers that practice many different forms of skiing, and its supported by its members. We discuss everything and anything here. Harald's site is Harald's alone. He does what he wants with it. He has made it clear that he wants to keep it tightly focused on PMTS to avoid confusion for his students. I don't have any problem with that. I have no idea why you think I can ban someone on Harald's site but you are certainly wrong about that.

A new skier joins Epic and rather than receiving him with open arms we have members that are chasing him away. What's the point of that?
post #21 of 256
Maybe you would like to answer Rick's question than. If all you want to do is discuss the masters teachings and ridicule anyone who disagrees with him why don't you do it on his forum?
post #22 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by edseas2 View Post
I honestly had no idea that you guys were so exclusive. I'm certainly not trying to ruffle feathers and I was (I thought) respectfully replying to an instructor's post about why I chose to follow PMTS.

In my world, when a fellow martial artist from another style pays us a visit (with respect) at our studio, we are always extremely polite (similar to some members here) and are happy to discuss techniques, theories, training methods with him/her.

Should skiing be any different?
No, it shouldn't.

Like every EpicSki discussion of this topic, you've received some thoughtful, polite responses and you've also received some not so much.

The bottom line, however, is that you asked for a line on a PMTS instructor or ski school in the Boston area. Within an hour of your original post, you were given the links for both the provider of the service and the forum where it is exclusively discussed. You've had every opportunity to ask that exact same question at the direct PMTS source and probably receive a much more accurate answer. I'm curious as to why you haven't yet done that, several hours later.

I'm not trying to push you away, I just can't figure out why - if you really want to know the answer to the question - you haven't asked it at the place where you're likely to get the answer.

:
post #23 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by edseas2 View Post
I honestly had no idea that you guys were so exclusive. I'm certainly not trying to ruffle feathers and I was (I thought) respectfully replying to an instructor's post about why I chose to follow PMTS.

In my world, when a fellow martial artist from another style pays us a visit (with respect) at our studio, we are always extremely polite (similar to some members here) and are happy to discuss techniques, theories, training methods with him/her.

Should skiing be any different?
There was no discourtesy intended in my question, ed, please don't read it that way. I'm not trying to shoo you out of here, I'm trying to suggest you go were you can get your best source of info, and that is the site where PMTS lives and breaths, and where the man himself (and his stable of coaches) will answer any question you have.

As dedicated as Max and others are to the program, they won't be able to answer all the questions you will have through your learning journey as well as HH or the other coaches can over on realskiers. That's why they're still students.

If you really want to improve via your chosen path, your time should be divided between reading the books, getting the clarifications you need on HH's site, attending his camps or privates with a qualified PMTS instructor, and practicing your a$$ off on snow. Epicski will be fine for entertainment, but it should not be part of your training program. Trying to make it so would be an unproductive waste of time.

If I were to walk into a martial arts studio looking for information and advice, I would only hope to receive as honest a response as I've just given you here. And notice I've made no attempt to discuss the merits of your decision, just tried to offer you a productive course for pursuing it. That's not being exclusive, it's called being helpful.
post #24 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
...A new skier joins Epic and rather than receiving him with open arms we have members that are chasing him away. What's the point of that?
Well, the initial post references:

1) drinking Harolds Koolaid, and
2) both how-to-be books are in hand

I don't know, but I suspect one of those books might have a link to HH's website & forums. No?

Referring to drinking the koolaid contradicts the claim of being a noob when they already know they're brain washed.

Sounds like troll to me. Despite Lars taking some heat, I suspect his gut call is right on.
post #25 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Peters View Post
I'm not trying to push you away, I just can't figure out why - if you really want to know the answer to the question - you haven't asked it at the place where you're likely to get the answer.
Maybe because Miles already gave him the answer which he already thanked him for. I would have thought that was obvious. Plus he's probably busy reading hundreds of posts over on the PMTS site which Miles just linked for him.
post #26 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA View Post
Maybe you would like to answer Rick's question than. If all you want to do is discuss the masters teachings and ridicule anyone who disagrees with him why don't you do it on his forum?
I'm not sure who this was addressed to. If it was me, can you please point me to the post(s) where I was ridiculing someone.
post #27 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_501 View Post
I'm not sure who this was addressed to. If it was me, can you please point me to the post(s) where I was ridiculing someone.
It was addressed to you Max. The you was plural, meaning those of you who follow Harb’s teachings. I guess you aren’t going to answer the question.
post #28 of 256
Hi, and welcome to the forum.

As posted above, there is a link to the PMTS forum on Realskiers.com (and excellent ski reviews in the member's section), and that forum is probably the best place to get PMTS advice.

There are a lot of different characters here, of all stripes. PMTS, PSIA, CSIA, and various European schools of thought. I only remember a few, 'cause I don't need to worry about it; I'm no instructor. I Myself follow Ghost's Crazy Canuck System of Skiing . Some members have their backs up against PMTS, just because they've been insulted, banned, and otherwise experienced unpleasantness from some PMTS aficionados. They don't like being ridiculed and insulted. Read a bit of the PMTS forum an you may understand. It is an old feud, and I don't see it ending anytime soon.
post #29 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA View Post
It was addressed to you Max. The you was plural, meaning those of you who follow Harb’s teachings. I guess you aren’t going to answer the question.
What question needs an answer? Thought it was all covered by now.
post #30 of 256
I have to agree with the other Rick. Realskiers will guide you to PMTS instruction and answer to your questions. Having been one of the first PMTS instructors on this site, I have seen a lot PMTS flame wars. Nothing comes out of them, except frustration, Realskiers is your best bet. Or you could go to www.harbskisystems.com or www.pmts.org.

Good luck and remember to lighten and tip tp your little toe edge.

Rick H
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