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Marker 12.0 Bindings

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have the Marker 12.0 twin piston titanium bindings on K2 Apache Recon skiis.When I get some air(only a couple of feet,being 50 years old)my bindings release on landing.I had the bindings adjusted to din of 7.I can't keep doing full yard sales,even though the chairlifts seem to approve.Should I toss the bindings and get new ones?I've only skied them 15 times,but I blew out my knee last year and I don't need that again.
post #2 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted07 View Post
I have the Marker 12.0 twin piston titanium bindings on K2 Apache Recon skiis.When I get some air(only a couple of feet,being 50 years old)my bindings release on landing.I had the bindings adjusted to din of 7.I can't keep doing full yard sales,even though the chairlifts seem to approve.Should I toss the bindings and get new ones?I've only skied them 15 times,but I blew out my knee last year and I don't need that again.
markers suck period get rid of them. but turn the din up to 11 and you should have no problems with them.

since this is epic I cant even call you a t...................
post #3 of 24
Shane McConkey and Glen Plake seem to be able to stay in their Marker bindings alright, and they've been known to get some air every now and then.

It's possible that there may be a problem specific to your bindings, how they were mounted, and/or how they were adjusted; consider having them checked-out by a good ski binding technician.

Also, and not knowing anything at all about how you ski and jump, your bindings may be performing exactly the way they are supposed to perform. So if the bindings check-out okay, consider getting your jumping checked by a good ski instructor or coach.
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
but turn the din up to 11 and you should have no problems with them.
I doubt it. Years and years ago when I was a poor shop rat and Markers were the only binders I could get a deal on I had MRRs with the toes cranked all the way up to 15 and I'd still occasionally "marker out".

ted07 - Marker toes are famous for pre-releasing. Some people don't have a problem with it, but a lot do. I don't know a whole lot about the physics and mechanics behind thier horrible retention characteristics, but I do know that when I used to ski Markers I had them cranked to 15 and wished I could have cranked them higher. Now I'm 15 lbs heavier and ski on Salomons set at 11.5 - that's a big difference. You don't have to worry about your knees too much as Markers tend to pre-release way before any strain is put on your knees, but you do have to worry about the rest of your body tumbling downhill after said pre-release.
post #5 of 24
what shane and glenn ski or any of marker pros ski is not what is on the selves.

Markers toe pre releases when the ski bends alot. this is realy common on fat kinda of soft skis.

what shane and plake are on is probably even close to a din of 12 binding and is turned up really high.

Glenn Plake told me his was set at 17 on his marker race bindings. even a respectable nice guy like Glenn is driven by money and he rides (use to since he is with elan now)markers only for that reason.
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
I doubt it.
for me yeah 11 aint working (yes i got skis with marker binding attached ) but for this guy 11 could work. This guy doesnt sound like he skis like me.
post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rick View Post
Shane McConkey and Glen Plake seem to be able to stay in their Marker bindings alright, and they've been known to get some air every now and then.
Unfortunately the bindings they use are modified to lock out upward release and are unavailable to the general public. And I doubt Plake will be skiing Markers in the future.
post #8 of 24
Marker, like all binding manufacturers, makes special bindings for their pros that differ from the ones in the ski shop and on recreational skis; do you know of any binding company that doesn't?. And when Plake or any of the pros change from one sponsor to another, it usually has more to do with contracts and retainers than concerns about product performance.
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rick View Post
Marker, like all binding manufacturers, makes special bindings for their pros that differ from the ones in the ski shop and on recreational skis; do you know of any binding company that doesn't?
True, every company makes race stock bindings that have much heavier springs - but Marker is the only company I know of that drastically modifies the retention mechanism on thier race stock binders.

Hey, if Markers work for you that's great. Marker is still in business after all these years so they must work for a lot of people. All I know is that I'm terrified of "big air" and I still manage to blow out of them even when they're cranked to ridiculous levels.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
True, every company makes race stock bindings that have much heavier springs - but Marker is the only company I know of that drastically modifies the retention mechanism on thier race stock binders.
AFAIK, Marker makes a special racing binding with a full metal baseplate, teeth in the toe wings, and heavier retention springs, but none of that seems likely to drastically modify the retention mechanism more than any other binding maker's race modifications.

But maybe there's more to it. If you know something goes on at Marker beyond those modifications, it would be very nice to see exactly what that is with a link or some other source we could all see.

Quote:
Hey, if Markers work for you that's great. Marker is still in business after all these years so they must work for a lot of people. All I know is that I'm terrified of "big air" and I still manage to blow out of them even when they're cranked to ridiculous levels.
Thanks, my Markers work fine, just as my Rossis and Tyrolias do, or they wouldn't be on any of my skis any longer. As you point out, if the competition was much superior, Marker bindings wouldn't be around. And if your experience has been different, and it sounds as if it has, then by all means, stick with what works for you.

But if someone (not you, but someone else) is going to lay out blanket statements such as "markers suck period get rid of them", it really should be supported with more than just personal anecdotes, just as a claim that "Marker is the only company I know of that drastically modifies the retention mechanism on thier race stock binders" should be.
post #11 of 24

Never a problem with Marker

You know, after reading the psots here it occurred to me that I've been skiing for over 40 very active years (from Mt. Tom, Mass., to Crystal MTN Wa., from Mad River, VT to Aspen Highlands Colorado and now in the Sierra's) and many of them have been on Marker with nary a problem and very few releases that were unexpected in what must be ten of thousands of runs. Of course, I've skied others like Look and the old Geze's and Tyrolia and Salomon. The best of the bunch in my experience (which has must be in the ballpark of considerable by now) has been Marker. No matter what ski or whatever surface I'm on. Best quality. Best retention and most reliable and consistent release. From skiing Head 360's, and Spauldings, Elan's, Olan's, Hexcels, etc. to my K2's, Stockli's and Dobermans today and whether it's been on fat and short or long and skinny, with radical sidecuts or with no sidecut whatsoever (remember the old Kestle Ice's?), Markers have been fine in my book. Never popped off on a soft ski (and I really love the new piston integrated bindings). Considering the number of races and competitions won on Marker I think they do alright there too. I've seen no instances where the DIN's have been jacked up on Markers more than any other binding manufacturer with elite athletes over the years but who knows maybe they do now. I'll keep an eye open at masters competitions. In my book Markers are A-ok. You guys must work for Salomon!
post #12 of 24
360's...Spaldings...Hexcels?!...Hexcels!!!? Wow. Just, wow...
Quote:
You guys must work for Salomon!
Hey pal, there's no need to get all insulting...
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
markers suck period get rid of them. but turn the din up to 11 and you should have no problems with them.

since this is epic I cant even call you a t...................
Easier said than done. 3 MFGs K2, Volkl, and Nordica REQUIRE markers on like half their skis... He has K2 recons which are motion system ski... Not exactly as simple as just getting rid of them.

I used integrated markers for years without serious issue. They never came off when hitting the bumps hard or making a run through the terrain park. Just my $.02. I did end up raising the DIN on my marker toe pieces by 1 level...

To the OP, are the problems with just one ski or both? Which part of the binding is releasing toe or heel? Is your forward pressure set right? You said you were recovering form injury last season... Usually release is preferred when you want to avoid injury. Where as retention is preferred in expert level terrain where losing a ski might be as bad as it not releasing.
post #14 of 24

My apology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Rick View Post
360's...Spaldings...Hexcels?!...Hexcels!!!? Wow. Just, wow..[size=1].[size=2]Hey pal, there's no need to get all insulting...
Sorry, the moment got the better of me and there I am throwing nasty accusations around. My apologies.

Yeah Hexcels. I beleive I was skiing the 542's which was a nice slalom type ski and Markers... .

ted07, (as tromano posted which was on the mark) are you releasing from the toe or the heel?
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 

Marker

The first landing that I blew out of my bindings-I landed great.Downhill slope,tails hitting first.As soon as the middle of the skiis hit I came right out.Second time I kicked up my tails on the jump,hit tips first.Downhill slope.When the middle of the skiis hit-right out.I was skiing my spatulas today with Marker bindings and I've never had a problem with them releasing on me.I'll try cranking them up.Thanks.
post #16 of 24
If the release problem continues after you crank them up 2 or 3 points, have them electronically tested by a reputable shop. All brands of bindings have periodic isolated failures (unless you're atomic, in which case every race412 fails after 20-30 days) which can cause both prerelease and nonrelease issues.
post #17 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takecontrol618 View Post
If the release problem continues after you crank them up 2 or 3 points, have them electronically tested by a reputable shop. All brands of bindings have periodic isolated failures (unless you're atomic, in which case every race412 fails after 20-30 days) which can cause both prerelease and nonrelease issues.
does neox412 '07 model fail after 20-30 days? :
post #18 of 24
I've been skiing markers for years and haven't had a problem that wasn't related to my own poor technique. Never had a binding just release on its own. The last time I had a ski fly off was last year when my friend and I collided. I don't remember exactly what happened but he ended up losing both skis and laying on top of the water pipe for the snow makers. I lost one ski but managed to stay on the hill. I'm guessing the bindings did what they were supposed to do.
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takecontrol618 View Post
If the release problem continues after you crank them up 2 or 3 points, have them electronically tested by a reputable shop.
This is exactly backwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Rick
Marker, like all binding manufacturers, makes special bindings for their pros that differ from the ones in the ski shop and on recreational skis; do you know of any binding company that doesn't?
You should probably use the SEARCH button instead of beating this dead horse, but I'll just go ahead and state the obvious for n+1th time.

Look/Rossignol: 18
Salomon: 20
Marker: 30
Marker: Only manufacturer that does not indemnify any of their competition bindings.

Marker, the Spinal Tap of binding manufacturers.
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
This is exactly backwards.

You should probably use the SEARCH button instead of beating this dead horse, but I'll just go ahead and state the obvious for n+1th time.

Look/Rossignol: 18
Salomon: 20
Marker: 30
Marker: Only manufacturer that does not indemnify any of their competition bindings.

Marker, the Spinal Tap of binding manufacturers.
what happen when you have a binding that releases and you dont want it to for your pros? crank the din up to 30 and make a unreleasable binding.

to the original poster(or anyone else for the matter) I suggest to get rid of the recons and get something that hasnt been hostagize buy marker. or rig up you own plate ala highway star.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
...
Markers toe pre releases when the ski bends alot. this is realy common on fat kinda of soft skis....
from what I've read and researched, the pre-release seems to be mitigated with bindings mounted with a plate between the bindings and the ski. Probably explains why my Markers that are plate mounted have never pre-released (and I'm a pretty big guy c. 250 lbs). And, I ski bumps quite a bit, and have even been known to get a little air when skiing them.
post #22 of 24
Tyrolia has a speed skiing binding that is a 45 DIN. So there.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
Tyrolia has a speed skiing binding that is a 45 DIN. So there.
Tyrolia. 1980's chic.
post #24 of 24
No one else has mentioned it, so I will. Make sure your Marker bindings have the correct forward pressure. Especially on system skis, forward pressure is far more likely the cause of pre-release than low DIN settings. The knee jerk response of simply cranking up the binding DIN is dangerous advise. Forward pressure is responsible for keeping the boot in contact with the toe. When the forward pressure has fallen out of adjustment and the ski cambers (as it does when you take off on a jump or crest a mogul, or rebound out of a hard carve), the boot cannot be held in place because the binding does not maintain pressure from the heel to the toe. There is a ridiculous amount of anti-Marker sentiment passes around based on relatively little fact. While he is a very good skier, Bushwacker's advise is particularly suspect above.
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