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ac4,karma,recon,or bandit b3

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
hey folks,
I've been dong some research on this website for some time now and finally decided to post a thread of my own. Im looking for a good all mtn ski and after some research ive narrowed it down to the ac4 ac3 karma recon or bandit b3.
I'm 6'1 and about 205-208 lbs. I'm from New Jersey but ski mainly in New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. I do however take about 2 trips out west each year so im looking for a one ski quiver that can handle it all. Im a level 6-7 skiier and mainly ski the grooms and off piste when i can. I like to ski fast and aggressive but dont mind taking it easy sometimes.
Im heading out to breckenridge next week and i would like to get some input on the skis. I am thinking the 170 ac4's, do you think they would be too small for me or should ig o with the 177's? ive also heard that they are somewhat hard to manage and i was wondering what everyone thought about that. any input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
matt
post #2 of 22

At your size....

I would look 177. Others feel free to chime in here but I'm just over 6' and between 180/185lbs and ski a very similar ski in the nordica top fuel in a 178 and volkl vertio in 177. At your size I don't think it would be too much to handle or bend, and would give you extra stability when you're charging. Not to call you out but are you an improving level 6-7, or are you more content to cruise at your level? The only reason I ask is that the AC4 is an advanced level ski and could really take you for a ride if you're not on top of your "game" on the slopes - I've seen friends on gear that was too much for them to handle and the results usually aren't pretty. It sounds like this is not the case but it should be a consideration. If your sold on getting the AC4 it'll be a great ski for what you're looking for.
post #3 of 22
I almost bought a pair of AC4's from a guy in Paramus, they are last years & in perfect shape...$550. Lemme know if you want his name.
post #4 of 22
AC4 or Top Fuel seem to be a lot of ski for a 6/7. Step it down a notch to a Modified. Even that is a lot of ski. If Nordica then 170 - maybe.
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
that would be great. what size are they? you can email the info at mtjensen@loyola.edu thanks again
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
thanks for all the input so far. I do realize it may be a bit much of a ski but i wasjust wondering how much too much. that is why i was thinking maybe the 170. I am an improving 6/7 who will be taking lessons out west this year and will probably ski about 20 days. being that im in college i dont have the money to buy a new set often so i dont want to get a ski that my ability outgrows
post #7 of 22

Am I wrong to think...

that an improving level 6/7 skier taking lessens out west and will get 20+ days in this year could greatly benefit from a ski like the AC4? I don't want to say the AC4 has unlimited (no pun intended) potential, but I don't think snowsurfer will hit it the way he might some of the softer skis in the noridca line as he improves over the next few years. He's young, presumably pretty athletic and I think could improve quickly on a ski like AC4. With that said, I'm no instructor and I could be way off on that one...:

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsurfer1043 View Post
thanks for all the input so far. I do realize it may be a bit much of a ski but i wasjust wondering how much too much. that is why i was thinking maybe the 170. I am an improving 6/7 who will be taking lessons out west this year and will probably ski about 20 days. being that im in college i dont have the money to buy a new set often so i dont want to get a ski that my ability outgrows
post #8 of 22
These are all very different skis. The Recon will be the most forgiving, followed by the Bandit. Both are very smooth and damp. AC3/AC4 would likely be too much ski for you at this point. The AC4 will be carvier than the others mentioned and maybe better on groomers, but gives up something in the crud. Also check out the Legend 8000 from Dynastar, the Nordica skis (second from the top-end models, either the Eliminator or Nitrous). If you want something carvier, the Atomic M:11 or Elan Magfire 10 would be good choices as well. The Fischer AMC76 is a great choice for a level 7. Demo if you can. Good luck!
post #9 of 22
There is really only one way to decide...test them out. Have you looked into the Mantra? The 06/07 have are a bit stiffer which will work on the east coast conditions - but they float on the west coast waves as well.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
i hadnt even really considered the mantra's untill now. after doing a little reseach they look like they might be a match given its a little more forgiving then the ac4. do you think it will still be ok on the groomed back east given its 94mm waist? thanks again for all the help
post #11 of 22

Ac 4

I am 5-7" , 150 lbs, 54 yrs old, long time eastern skier and get out about 40 days a year. I ski on Dynastar Omeglass 63 and Fischer Rc4 slalom skis in 157, 165. I got tired of sking around the crud here in upstate NY consisting of piles of granular snow over ice, bare ice and piles of slush down lower on the hill, the last couple years with these skis. I just started sking AC4s in 163 with Nordica speed machine boots and love the set up. This is a very easy turning ski, good in all types cud, short turn or long turn, and is a faster ski than either of my slalom skis. The AC4's also handle ice very well, and are much easier on my legs, they let me carve through crud and or ride over it. The worse the conditions and more variable the skiing gets the more fun this skis is to ride because it pretty much excels in everything. I do not understand why this ski, in the correct length, would be "too much" for any intermediate. I would also dare say that most people that ski a pair for a day will want to buy them. Moguls and bumps are fun with these skis as well, a bit surprising for a fat ski.
post #12 of 22

Hey Seeker, I have a question.....

>I ski on Dynastar Omeglass 63 and Fischer Rc4 slalom skis in 157, 165. I got tired of sking around the crud here in upstate NY consisting of piles of granular snow over ice, bare ice and piles of slush down lower on the hill.

I've been trying to find an east coast skier that switched from a narrow slalom ski to the AC4. I ski older P9's, 200cm with a 63 mm waist (much like your Dynastars) and like you, I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair of 170 AC4's. My question is, was it a rough transition from the narrow 63mm waist to the midfat 82 mm waist of the AC4 ?? Is the AC4 really as " slalom fast" edge to edge as they say ?

Since you ski upstate NY (as do I) I assume that you are familier with Hunter Mountain (?) Can those AC4's really handle the hardpack and ice that you get at Hunter, and are they stable at speed when your ripping down Clairs, The Cliff and Wayout ?

Thanks !
post #13 of 22
i don't have too much to offer in the way of advice but i would suggest maybe not getting the mantra. as it seems is always the case, you will never have everyone agree on what is best for a one-ski quiver. you are always giving something up. the mantra is awesome in pow. i demoed it back to back with the ac4 a couple times last year. i found that the mantra was more fun/performed a little bit better in pow. if i still lived out west, i would definitely pick it up and be happy with it as my single pair of skis. its good enough on the groomers. but the ac4 is noticeably better on groomers/hard stuff. i was really impressed actually. and it actually does pretty well in deep stuff too, although i found myself working a little harder with it than with the mantra.

so, i'd say the ac4 is the more versatile ski, but the mantra is more fun in powder.
post #14 of 22
Give a good look at Dawgcatching's advice. The man knows his stuff and won't steer you wrong. Over the years i have seen a lot of these suggestions and more times then not the people post a recomendation on the skis they own. Buying too much ski at this stage could hold you back in your progress.
post #15 of 22
Just as a different view to consider, remember that there is a big difference between sliding down the mountain with a given pair of skis under your boots and actually using those skis properly and getting your moneys worth out of them. Someone who describes himself as a level 6 is wasting money skiing on a Karma or an AC4 even though he could slide downhill with those skis under his boots. If you can show me a Level 6 who skis the Karma or AC4 in a way that actually makes good use of the skis then I would be surprised really surprised. Also the Mantra is the wrong ski for a Level 6 skier its even more demanding and high performance than the AC4 or Karma. A Level 6 skier should be on something that helps him develop his skiing not just something that makes him look like a tough guy when he carries them around.
post #16 of 22
If you are a young level 7 skier, and plan on taking lessons, then an AC3/AC4 or B2/B3 would be fine.

My suggestion would be for you to buy a ski for what you ski 80% of the time. In other words, don't buy a ski for the West if you ski the East 80% of the time.

Yes, out west there is often more powder skiing available, but still a lot of groomers. I see a lot of B2 and AC3s out here for that reason. They do well in both conditions.

The AC3 is a llittle softer than the AC4, as well as the different sidecut. Don't rule it out. Still a very good ski; more of an "all conditions" ski than the AC4. I have a pair that I beat the hell out of, and they take it.

The B2 is a great ski. Very popular around here. People even take them into the BC. The B3 also. Both are a little lighter than the AC3/AC4, but designed more or less to do the same things.

But get a ski that you will enjoy most of the time. You will get to know it, get better on it, and when you do travel with it, you will still make it work and have a ton of fun on them. You could always rent something bigger on vacation. Demo rentals are part of the fun on a ski vacation anyway.
post #17 of 22
A ski instructor once told me You spend $800 for some skis and only know how to get $200 worth of performance out of them why not learn to get the whole $800.00 out of those skis.
post #18 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsurfer1043 View Post
hey folks,
I'm 6'1 and about 205-208 lbs. I'm from New Jersey but ski mainly in New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. I do however take about 2 trips out west each year so im looking for a one ski quiver that can handle it all. Im a level 6-7 skiier and mainly ski the grooms and off piste when i can. I like to ski fast and aggressive but dont mind taking it easy sometimes. Im heading out to breckenridge next week and i would like to get some input on the skis. I am thinking the 170 ac4's.
I've been in the hunt for skis myself. I'm an East Coast skier skiing the same areas as you. I also go out West nearly every year. I too was looking at the AC4 in 170, as well as the AC3, the Supersport Allstar and the Afterburner. I'm a bit smaller than you at 5'11 and 185, But I'm an advanced aggressive all mountain skier, skiing mainly single and double diamonds, and all of the bowl skiing that I can get when I'm out west.

My question to you is, what are you skiing now and what size ? That should help the pro's on this forum advise you.

Also, If _I_ was going out west next week, I'd hold off on buying skis and I'd demo as many pairs as I could while I was out there. Many ski shops will credit you back one or two days rental fee towards your purchase if you talk to them about it in advance. To me, this is a best case scenario.

Good Luck,
Wounded Warrior.
post #19 of 22
Thread Starter 
Right now i have the rossi b2's in 174. skied them about 25 times last year and liked them a lot. Looking for something a bit wider to take out west.
went to ski barn yesterday and the salesman suggested the karma in either 177 or 185 or the b3 in 176 since I liked the b2's. I think your suggestion of demoing them when i get out there is going to be the way to go.
post #20 of 22
Try to call ahead to set it up. Christi's was one of the shops that would do it (last time I was up there) and if memory serves me, they _might_ be the owner of the ski shop at Breckenridge. You might want to try to hook up with a shop at the mountain so that you can changes skis and sizes a few times during the day. JMHO.

Enjoy yourself. (I'm very jealous ......)

Wounded Warrior
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramshackle View Post
Just as a different view to consider, remember that there is a big difference between sliding down the mountain with a given pair of skis under your boots and actually using those skis properly and getting your moneys worth out of them. Someone who describes himself as a level 6 is wasting money skiing on a Karma or an AC4 even though he could slide downhill with those skis under his boots. If you can show me a Level 6 who skis the Karma or AC4 in a way that actually makes good use of the skis then I would be surprised really surprised. Also the Mantra is the wrong ski for a Level 6 skier its even more demanding and high performance than the AC4 or Karma. A Level 6 skier should be on something that helps him develop his skiing not just something that makes him look like a tough guy when he carries them around.
I will add here size too. Someone who has a ski/model that is too big or even too small for them is short changing themselves in performance too.
post #22 of 22

Yes on the ice for the AC4

I have found the AC4 good in / on everything including ice, slush, crud etc. I usualy skis slalom skis, the AC4 is not as fast edge to edge nor does it dig in as well as a sharp slalom ski on hard ice but on days when the top half of the mountain is icy and the lower half soft or even slushy this ski shines. As I said before it is also easy on my legs even with many short turns thrown in on a run. The AC4 is a much faster ski than my other skis,I find it very stable at speed, my one issue is that it encourages me to skis faster than I should but you gotta do what you gotta do.
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