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I wonder what would happen if....

post #1 of 23
12/23/06 at 4:20pm
Thread Starter 
.... Ski racing had an event like the IROC.

The top 20 racers all got to race, using exactly the same set ups, i.e.- boots, skis, wax jobs, suits, etc....

Would the same types of results occur, or would things be shaken up like a pecan tree in a wind storm?


Just musing...... (and amusing myself...)
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post #2 of 23
12/23/06 at 4:30pm
I just googled IROC to see what you were talking about.

What a great idea!

Amused me too.
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post #3 of 23
12/23/06 at 4:39pm
The boots part could be tough. Someone would get an automatic advantage.

I want to see teh Super-DUPER Combined. They race Super-G and Slalom but have to do it on the same pair of skis.
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post #4 of 23
12/28/06 at 8:12am
I think WC racing is more like F1. Different sponsors on different equipment, but governed by very strict rules and regulations.

While I understand the idea of a pure race of skills, I also think that WC skiing is about showcasing equipment and it's technological progress.

IROC cars are sooo far back technologically compared to F1 or even DTM or BTCC it’s almost embarrassing.
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post #5 of 23
1/17/07 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
The top 20 racers all got to race
Jan 17, 2007

Dear SnoPro:

Excuse me for digressing slightly from your original thread, how about the "Top 20 racers of all time at their prime competeing ___" (fill in the blank with an event or events)?:


CharlieP
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post #6 of 23
1/17/07 at 1:14pm
Let's see, Bode has raced on K2, Fischer, Rossignol, Atomic and Head. Same basic results on every brand.

I think we can use him as a reference point as to how others would do...it's the athlete, not the gear.
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post #7 of 23
1/17/07 at 4:34pm
Thread Starter 
OK, CharlieP- I'll bite!

Who would those top 20 racers be? My list might be something like this...

Killy, Schranz, Thoeni, Gros, Stenmark, Mahre, Ghiradelli, Zurbriggen, Accola, Zwilling, Russi, Tomba, Maier, Eberharter, Nierlich, Aamodt, Kjus, Klammer, Miller, Raich
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post #8 of 23
1/17/07 at 8:43pm
The course .... half speed and half technical?

ooooops ... now the skis ain't simple .. :

now if we can control for temprature of the air and snow .. :

one wax tech ... that's easy ..

Poles? What the hell, if the Austrians can come, so can the Poles!
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post #9 of 23
1/17/07 at 8:47pm
No, no, no! Not so fast with those suits. In an IROC series car, each unit has the same frontal area and subsequent drag.

Big racers have a large frontal area but greater mass. A complex formula would have to be developed to equalize the drag/mass problems. Duct taping a large cardboard square to the ....
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post #10 of 23
1/17/07 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
OK, CharlieP- I'll bite!

Who would those top 20 racers be? My list might be something like this...

Killy, Schranz, Thoeni, Gros, Stenmark, Mahre, Ghiradelli, Zurbriggen, Accola, Zwilling, Russi, Tomba, Maier, Eberharter, Nierlich, Aamodt, Kjus, Klammer, Miller, Raich
Those 20 would be the tour regulars. Yes and to make it all exciting they would run a Pro Dual format. Of course to keep interest in the series on Fridays before the races there would be time trials for locals to earn a spot in the qualifying round of the calcutta. Then a couple walk-ons named Andre Arnold and Bernard Knauss would run away with the whole thing

- Fossil
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post #11 of 23
1/18/07 at 2:36am
Jan 18, 2007

Dear Vail SnoPro:

Well what can I say about your list? Reasonable people might quibble over a couple of your suggestions, but your list, IMHO, is almost perfect.

Toni Sailer, Austrian Olympian in the 50s, would be on many people's list as well as mine.

How about Toni Matt as an alternate/runner up/honorable mention/CONGENIAL? His legendary 'line' (probably an earlier Bode prototype) down the Headwall of Tuckerman(max 50 degree vert), in the fog, cut the previous record set by the likes of Dick Durrance and other legendary Dartmouth racers in half . And we think a 2 second lead in a WC event as incredible!!! However, he was before his time and we will never know how good he probably really was.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

CharlieP

PS: any votes for 'King of the Hill' in: SL, GS and Downhill separately and overall (excluding Super G, since for some of the racers, it wasn't an event)?

PPS: Interesting concept this dual course in Downhill. The course got to be WIDE:
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post #12 of 23
1/18/07 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post
Big racers have a large frontal area but greater mass. A complex formula would have to be developed to equalize the drag/mass problems. Duct taping a large cardboard square to the ....
Very true. And we also need to add lead weights as ballast for the lighter guys.
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post #13 of 23
1/18/07 at 5:23pm
or how about FIS lets theeach company compete to build the best technological products within specifications but only allows then to build and use one design of SL , GS , SGS, and DH ski for their racers. Boots can be personalized as they are a bio-mechanical variable to each racer. It has always amazed me that the best are given the best to remain the best while upcoming talent is forced to compete on dated or inferior equipment but still expected to win or excel against better funded , equipped and experienced athlete's in this sport. perhaps changing the focus to athlete, away from technology, would allow cost saving to companies not needing to RD for individuals and build cheaper boards that would be a great equalizer in the competitions. In other words anyone can be the EXACT ski the best use...its a thought and like to hear others.:
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post #14 of 23
1/18/07 at 6:00pm
I remember a few of the early IROC races with the Camaro's and all the chatter ..... white car is the fastest ... blue car is a dog .... as equal as they could get them, there were still "issues".
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post #15 of 23
1/18/07 at 10:32pm
What won't work is not everyone is the same size. You can't expect Michael Walchofer to wear Max Blardone's boots and ski suit and vice versa.
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post #16 of 23
1/18/07 at 11:12pm
Thread Starter 
Dual DH? We had a few of those back in the early 80's... I'll never forget what it was like to be going 60+mpg, and see a guy next to you going just as fast... but it just never caught on! We (the racers) didn't care for it very much. There were a few pretty bad crashes (ie - Nestor Burgner(sp) at Slide Mtn, circa 1983?) which didn't help the event either.
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post #17 of 23
1/19/07 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
Dual DH? We had a few of those back in the early 80's... I'll never forget what it was like to be going 60+mpg, and see a guy next to you going just as fast... but it just never caught on! We (the racers) didn't care for it very much. There were a few pretty bad crashes (ie - Nestor Burgner(sp) at Slide Mtn, circa 1983?) which didn't help the event either.
Sept 19, 2007

Dear Vail SnoPro:

Interesting that you should have participated in a Dual DH course. When Flying Fossil came up with the Dual Pro format, I thought it was an intriguing idea for the DH. Just shows that "there is nothing new under the sun".

BTW, is Slide Mountain which you mentioned now Mt. Rose in the Tahoe-Reno region? I been there many times and love that mountain. Thinking about it, they do have places on the mountain which would be wide enough to hold a Dual DH, but it would be short and not comply with FIS length regs. An interesting note is that I think that Tamara McKinney raced for that mountiain when she was a youth.

60+ miles an hour? Your the man. Fastest I think I've ever done is 20-30 on a citizen "modified" GS course (closer to 20 than 30, not sure).

BTW, on another thread you mentioned that a racer won the WC Title on consistent results and did not win a race all year. I forgot who it was, but I think that it was either Zurbriggen or Ghiradelli. If I had to bet, I would place it on Zurbriggen. Would you like to clarify it for us Bears?

CharlieP
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post #18 of 23
1/19/07 at 8:26pm
Thread Starter 
CharlieP-

Are you from the future? Your time stamp of Sept 19, 2007 is making me think I have overslept a little bit! lol

The Dual DH's we were running were pro races, not FIS. Pay your money, try to qualify, and hopefuly win a little bit more than you paid!
Yes, the race I referred to was at Slide Mtn, now a part of Mt Rose. They used to be seperate areas. The course ran from right near the top of the lift, and the finish area was very small... a few racers even slid to a stop against the wall of the base lodge...

I used to ski with Steve and McLean McK, but I have no idea if Tamara skied for Slide Mtn/ Mt Rose or not. I never thought to ask her!

The answer to the other thread was Peter Luscher, of Switzerland. That was discussed in the "Who did it... " thread... Though there is a small amount of controversy as to whether he actually did win a race that season. Official results show that he won 2 combineds (though he did not win either event in either combined) and that he had won a SL.

The point of the thread was about consistency, rather than just the wins...

Your comment about speed is interesting! Most recreational skiers have no idea how fast they are going! The average recreational skier, level 7, on a groomed blue/ black trail will ski around 40- 45 mph! And on Blue Ox at Vail, when groomed, I have seen skiers go by me sidewards at better than 60mph! In a full skid, no less! VERY SCARY!!!!

Back in the early 80's, Steve McKinney was running what was essentially "NASTAR" level speed skiing. It was called "Camel Speed Skiing". We had a couple of his events at Kirkwood when I was a supervisor there. Held on 'Elevator Shaft' right along Ch 4, the speeds far exceeded his expectations for the hill. Ultimately, the recreational skiers were only allowed to start about 2/3 up the course, while the pro's were allowed to start at the top. The top speed of the rec skiers was almost 85 mph. The top pro went almost 110, while I was back in the pack at 102.5mph. Got to admit- it was exciting... I have never been that fast since! But during that same time period, my training partner and I would tuck/ straight line Olympic early in the mornings that it was groomed, to get used to really letting it hang out, speed-wise. I would not be suprised if we were getting up near 90mph consistently. Damn were we young and stupid!
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post #19 of 23
1/19/07 at 11:30pm
Thats a great idea. Int he meantime Skiercross is the new hotness! Man that thing blowes WC away, real action and much talent to boot.
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post #20 of 23
1/20/07 at 11:21pm
Thread Starter 
XJ-

No doubt it's exciting! To the participants as well as the spectators. Lots of action too- kind of reminds me of Roller Derby...

But talent? Is this a comparison to those guys and gals racing WC? Give me a break... Sure, a few ex-USST members have shifted over there to make a few bucks (ie- Crist bros.), but I can't recall a single WC winner ever competing in a Skier Cross....

Do you think any of those guys would want Hermann Meier next to them in a tight corner? I don't think so........
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post #21 of 23
1/20/07 at 11:43pm
Daron Rahlves is racing skiercross now.

Not that it appeals to me at all, even with Daron competing.
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post #22 of 23
1/21/07 at 12:47am
Thread Starter 
Is Daron really doing it? I can imagine him mixing it up on skis... I feel sorry for the other guys......


"Who is racing for second...?" lol
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post #23 of 23
1/21/07 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vail snopro View Post
Is Daron really doing it? I can imagine him mixing it up on skis... I feel sorry for the other guys......


"Who is racing for second...?" lol
Google Rahlves and Skiercross and you'll find plenty of information, like:

http://www.lat34.com/skiercross_event

I'd say Daron is doing well, but Casey Puckett is still the man in skiercross. Since Daron has no problem mixing it up on motorcycles or watercraft, this isn't really a stretch.
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