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why do snowboarders sit in middle of trails? - Page 2

post #31 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
What would you like us to do about it?
Tell the boarders to stop clogging up the exit areas of the lifts, why is this difficult? Tell them to snap-in in a single file line going downhill or create an area for them. This is not rocket science! If they are in the way now, I ski over thier boards
post #32 of 158

Why can't we all just get along?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
Tell the boarders to stop clogging up the exit areas of the lifts, why is this difficult? Tell them to snap-in in a single file line going downhill or create an area for them. This is not rocket science! If they are in the way now, I ski over thier boards
Well, you're right - it's not difficult. But that does not make it the right solution to the problem. If you're going to do this you need to tell everyone (not just boarders) to not clog up the exit areas. Boarders do not have exclusivity on obliviousness and inexperience. Try telling skiers to line up when they stop after getting off a lift. It's just not going to happen and if it did both sports would be less fun. Michael has a better idea.

Tolerance and common courtesy work both ways. Skiing over peoples gear or spraying them with snow is not safe and begging to get your ticket pulled.
post #33 of 158
It's the same reason that when you go to a party at somebody's house there's always a large group of people coagulated around doorways, whether it's the doorway to the kitchen, living room, bathroom, backyard. People always seem to glom onto the doorways.

As for it just being boarders? Hmmm. I've encountered a fair amount of 2-plankers who just stop right after they get off the lift of decide that taking a breather in the middle of a run is a great idea. So I don't think it's just relegated to boarders.



(as for the answer I have no idea why people tend to gather in doorways or why they like to gather at the openings to runs/at the run-off of chairlifts)
post #34 of 158
There are more important things in life and on the mountain to worry about.
post #35 of 158
Just another obstacle to be avoided. And you better hope the person you spray isn't meaner than you.
post #36 of 158
We are just trying to annoy you. (and it's working!)
post #37 of 158
I tend to unbuckle my boots before I get on the lift, and then need to rebuckle them at the top of the lift. It always seemed reasonable to me that the best place to do this was at the very edge of the offload area somewhere. It's really not a difficult concept if you have cultivated a mindset of being courteous to other people. Such courtesy is the norm around here in my experience.

Exceptions to the norm do occur in otherwise perfectly nice people who, for whatever reason, can be clueless about the needs of others. A good friend of mine who is just now learning to ski is a case in point. I doubt anyone would run into him, though -- he puts his ski poles under his armpit, so when he bends over to buckle his boots, guess where they point? Not bright, or polite. "Uh, pal, might want to move over here before you put some poor dude's eye out...":

Of course, he skis with his poles in the same position...
post #38 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevescho View Post
Yeah dude, I have.

Re quest #1: Can you ski around? No. On trails leaving the lift, or at the crest of the decent, there are so many snoboarders sitting down that you literally have to stop and wait for one of them to move; and you have to do this about three times. This is not just one resort or a busy day. All the time, everywhere out west. I can't comment about the NE.

Re quest #2: Tone of voice? Irrelevant. I don't ask anymore. I'm just wondering why snowboarders lack the common sense (without asking) to move over to the side? Why is that?

As far as patrollers being aggressive; I wish it were so in the west but its not. Never seen a patroller do anything about it out here.
I've haven't had this experience at Whistler or Lake Louise or Sun Peaks. WHere out West do you mean?
And why not just push them out of the way, then go UFC on them if they mouth off?
post #39 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
What would you like us to do about it?
post #40 of 158
Just to add the the sum of the comments made.

Yes Boarder please just move away from the lift a little further to buckle up.

This comes from someone who snowboards as well as skis. So please no lame excuses, there are none. It's just plain rude and ignorant to plop down any ole place, without a care about anyone else using the hill.

It is not that hard to simply move 10 feet further and not block the whole area to everyone else.

So when I "slip" through between you and your stupid buddy and ding your board with the rear of my skis or put my pole basket into your rear binding to push off. No thats no me being dense thats me clueing you into how stupid and ignorant you are for ploping down right in the way.

regarding the rest of the hill. There are idiots everywhere. I simply just go faster than most of them so their stupidty exposure to me is limited.

Agree there are alot of dumb a$$ skiers as well but I don't find them bunging up the lift exits as much as snowboarders.
post #41 of 158
I was talking to a massage therapist at a party last night, and she had this reason for "why do snowboarders sit in the middle of trails?" -

"Because they know the value of icing an injury so they decide to do it right on the hill."
post #42 of 158
I'm a skiier, but i snowboard on occasion and when i strap in I either just stand on a flat area or do it as i start to ride down. there really is no reason to sit down. Its not difficult to strap in while standing. Also, some of my friends just strap in on the lift and are ready to go at the top. And there is no excuse for stopping in the middle of the run. Unless you're so out of shape you can't go top to bottom.
post #43 of 158
while boarding i've always strapped in on the way up, i like to make the lift to run transition as soon short as possible. if i didn't strap in on the way up i always get out of the way. I rarely stop when getting off a lift while skiing, I point them to where I want to go and skate that direction. i've always been able to find a path through the maze.


as far as them being in the way, the only thing that really bothers me is when they sit on the downhill side of a rollover. it makes it difficult to ski when you're wondering if someone is hiding on the other side of the hill from you.

i saw a boarder almost get creamed by a fellow boarder who was jumping over a rollover that the first one was sitting under... he calmly said "i should move" and slid down another 10 yards and sat back down. i laughed.
post #44 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckb614 View Post
I'm a skiier, but i snowboard on occasion and when i strap in I either just stand on a flat area or do it as i start to ride down. there really is no reason to sit down. Its not difficult to strap in while standing. Also, some of my friends just strap in on the lift and are ready to go at the top. And there is no excuse for stopping in the middle of the run. Unless you're so out of shape you can't go top to bottom.
Congratulations on being in such great shape that you can bend over and strap in from a standing position and ride top to bottom without stopping. Could you do Whistler (5000 vert) or Zermatt (8000 vert) without stopping? Not everyone is as physically fit as you are. When I started riding my back was so bad it took me 10 minutes to strap in and I was exhausted before I even stood up. Now I can strap in standing up and ride top to bottom on many slopes, but I'll often choose to stop and enjoy the view, plan a route, or help someone. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
post #45 of 158
The answer to all your problems:
http://www.alta.com
post #46 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by therusty View Post
Could you do Whistler (5000 vert) or Zermatt (8000 vert) without stopping?
On saturday I ran the longest run of my life, 16.4 miles in 1 hour 58 minutes.
...and enjoying the view is for squares
post #47 of 158
I'm young, athletic, and possess cat-like balance. I can easily strap-in while standing, but I often sit anyways. Why? Because I can...I don't, however, do it in the way of others.

As others have said, it all comes down to experience. 99% of riders with more than 20 days under their belt will not sit down within 3 feet of the ramp; the same goes for skiers.

Instead of whining about these folks, why don't we all extend some courtesy to the sports as a whole and educate them?
post #48 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post
The answer to all your problems:
http://www.alta.com
This is definitely the best, and only fool proof response.

This is a subject that used to continually piss me off, but I've gotten passed it for the simple reason that it'll never change. In fact, in the smaller Mid-Atlantic areas that I ski, it's only getting worse. We have 3 local resorts, one of which I won't even go near on the weekend for this simple reason.

Oh...and I don't buy the "uneducated" excuse for the simple fact that if you visit 2 out of the 3 local resorts I ski, you'll find entire classes of boarders sitting across a trail with the instructor sitting right in the middle of the trail. So I guess the answer to the original question is easy in some cases. It's because it's part of their formal training.
post #49 of 158
A couple of years ago we spoke to some of the younger boarders at the resort,to see what could be done to alleviate the problem of boarders,(I know some skiers do it too,but at our hill it's mostly boarders) sitting down in the unloading areas.We came up with the idea of having the groomers push up a few small mounds of snow at the the top of each lift,that could then be formed into a bench/seat.The boarders even offered to do the shovel work,as they best know what suits their needs. Most of the boarders now head to these benches to buckle up before heading downhill.They even point them out boarders who sit in the unloading area to buckle up. There are some folks who think that these benches are for the purpose of resting and working on their tans.We point out that they are primarily for people who need to buckle up before heading out,as a means of keeping the unloading area clear.Once that is explained to them,they happily (for the most part) give up their seats.We don't let people,boarders included,monopolize these benches.Once you are buckled in,it's time to give up your space to some one else.
We have found that by including younger skiers and boarders in some of the decision making process,they become more considerate of those they share the slopes with.

No idea what to do about sitting on the downhill side of rollers yet.Took one of the worst offenders off the hill with a severe scalp laceration earlier this year.He's a local,and we had spoken to he and his buddies often about the danger of sitting where people can't see them.After assurrances the there were no problems,etc. it finally happened,Buddy is sitting on the downhill side of a roller,pretty well completely hidden from view.One of his regular riding pals hits the roller,catches good air and clips his friends head with his board,resulting in a severe scalping and concussion for one and a busted collarbone for the other.Interestingly enough,the rest of their posse now are very visible on the hill.

Let's all try and get along a little and be thankful that we are actually out on the slopes.Some of our brother and sister Bears are still golfing from the sounds of it.
post #50 of 158
Interesting, Coach. I ski the same hills and never had a problem or really even noticed where people stopped. Maybe because I don't ski very fast and I turn a lot, so "going around" is kinda what I'm doing anyway. I also have a bike messenger's ability to find a line and I sqeeze through tight spots without thinking about it.

Now, some riders might get belligerent if you offer suggestions, but the instructor should be able to accept advice. Tell him to manage the position of his class differently. If he seems at all hesitant to improve his class handling, go to the ski school director and suggest further training.
post #51 of 158
What strikes me as outrageously stupid is that i have seen groupsof boarders sitting on the landings of jumps, not crashed just sitting. NEWSFLASH: PEOPLE HITTING BIG TABLES WITH STEEP LANDINGS CAN NOT SEE THEIR LANDINGS. YOU WILL GET HIT YOU MORONS. Nothing like coming in for a landing and thinking "oh god i am about to make a gaper-kabob with my ski". And since i am not tanner hall, when I land switch with a lot of speed it takes me a second to get my ballance and such before I can look over my shoulder and start turning or turn around, plenty of oppourtunity to hit some one who i cant see. Please if you want to watch your freinds or sit around and talk please stay away from landings for your own sake.

/rant

now sitting in the take off is a whole other problem but im done now.
post #52 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Now, some riders might get belligerent if you offer suggestions, but the instructor should be able to accept advice. Tell him to manage the position of his class differently. If he seems at all hesitant to improve his class handling, go to the ski school director and suggest further training.
It's not worth the trouble---I just ski elsewhere.
post #53 of 158
Well, you claim this is a problem at two of the three hills and you say you DO ski at two of the three, so I figured that this is a problem at one of the places you ski as well as the one you refuse to visit. If it's too much trouble to talk to the instructor, how is it not too much trouble to whine about it here? Maybe you like to have something to complain about instead of making a small effort towords solving the "problem".
post #54 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
What strikes me as outrageously stupid is that i have seen groupsof boarders sitting on the landings of jumps, not crashed just sitting. NEWSFLASH: PEOPLE HITTING BIG TABLES WITH STEEP LANDINGS CAN NOT SEE THEIR LANDINGS. YOU WILL GET HIT YOU MORONS. Nothing like coming in for a landing and thinking "oh god i am about to make a gaper-kabob with my ski". And since i am not tanner hall, when I land switch with a lot of speed it takes me a second to get my ballance and such before I can look over my shoulder and start turning or turn around, plenty of oppourtunity to hit some one who i cant see. Please if you want to watch your freinds or sit around and talk please stay away from landings for your own sake.

/rant

now sitting in the take off is a whole other problem but im done now.
Yeah, Tanner races downhill switch, but for most skiers I'm told it is still more difficult than "regular." This is actually a good rant and a good point. Sitting in the takeoff -- I assume you're talking park since you mentioned tables -- seems to be a Dad issue, not a boarder or skier issue, at most places though ime.
post #55 of 158
Folks waiting to drop in count the bodies launching and the bodies skiing away. If the number of jumpers is greater than the number of people skiing away, you can assume someone is still in the landing zone. Not rocket science. Where I ski, people know to clear out of the landing zone, no one sits there, even at the dreaded, dangerous Ski Liberty. Of course, you should never assume it's clear.
post #56 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13 View Post
Oh...and I don't buy the "uneducated" excuse for the simple fact that if you visit 2 out of the 3 local resorts I ski, you'll find entire classes of boarders sitting across a trail with the instructor sitting right in the middle of the trail. So I guess the answer to the original question is easy in some cases. It's because it's part of their formal training.
It's not a sin to sit in the middle of a trail. It's not a sin for group of riders to sit across a trail, as long as it's not a big deal to get around. That's what the "don't obstruct" part of Your Responsibility Code means. As an employee of a resort, I get the right to make this interpretation. If you don't like it, you are perfectly exercising your rights by choosing where to take your business.

With respect to classes sitting in the middle of trails, you can count me guilty of this one. I teach at Whitetail. I teach beginners a lot. I'll stop them in the middle of the Northern Lights trail
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
There, I feel so much better now. I'm guilty, guilty, guilty.

At my resort, our beginner trail is convex. The double fall lines at the edges make it nearly impossible for a first time rider to get off the edges of the trail. If I stop my first time riders on the edge of the trail, the only ways they'll get riding again are: taking their boards off and walking to the middle, crawling back to the middle with their boards on, or if I personally hands on help every one of them to get started again. I try to keep my groups bunched up to take less room, but hey these are first timers. I cut them a little slack. Until we get enough snow made to grade the slope to convex, we have to deal with this. You may not believe this, but we do teach our riders the basic safety rules of your responsibility code and basic courtesies like clearing the lift area. Just because we may be forced to take up space on trails by keeping our groups together, does not mean we are training riders to block trails. There may be a billion better ways to deal with this, but until I see you teaching next to me I'm going to choose to believe that you don't know what we're really doing out there. Just maybe the answers are not as easy as you think they are. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to change if there is a better way. Are you willing to change if there is a better way?
post #57 of 158
Rusty,

Whitetail probably qualifies as one of the more densely populated hills in the country? (I've never been there, but I think this is a reasonable assumption.) Have you EVER seen a whole trail actually truly blocked by boarders so that people weren't able to work around?
post #58 of 158
This happens a lot where I ski - but then it's a boarder haven at Stratton. We call them seals . Is it a big problem for me? No - they have provided several parks and such which tend to segregate traffic a bit. I've never run into a group I couldn't avoid. Then again I don't hang out a lot on green and blue trails where the less experienced riders might be doing it. Plus I don't ski at 40 mph most of the time.

Why do they do it? I think it's a social thing mostly and a reality that once you stop on a board it's not easy to just stand there in one place. I could make a wise remark about it's easier to pass the joint that way but I won't . The only qualm I have is don't block the slope. Again, not a huge problem for the runs I ski.
post #59 of 158
CT,

I wouldn't say Whitetail is one of the most densely populated ski areas in the country, but my tolerance for this is quite high and I've been there when it would be tempting for some to say so. Whitetail is blessed with wide trails, but I have been confronted with totally blocked paths a couple of times. In every case it has been a combination of skiers and riders.

The worst case I've ever experienced was early season at Killington when the only open trail to the bottom (which acted as a funnel) had a 70 yard stretch of trail that only had bumped up soft snow on a 10 foot wide line and ice skating rink ice for the rest of the width of the trail. This was followed by a pitch change after the ice patch. Skiers would go one at time through the bumps then congregate from edge to edge afterwards about 4 people deep. I don't recall seeing a single rider in the pack, but there had to be over a hundred people there. I skied on the ice until I was about 15 yards away from the block and waited for a gap. While I was waiting, I heard ice grate behind me but figured I couldn't get hit because I was so far into the ice. Sure enough, a skier took me out. It had to be my fault because I was not standing all the way to the side of the trail!

Of course that does not always help either. This year I was skiing at Killington on East Fall (a steep trail) during, shall we say, "firm" conditions, standing on the side of the trail talking to another Whitetail instructor. I saw the kid sliding at us from over 100 feet away, but figured he had plenty of time to stop. Alas, he thought self arrest meant turning yourself in to the cops. I was able to escape towards the center of the trail, but my 65ish year old friend was not. She had two sprains and a spiral fracture. I just had one ski ripped off and taken for a 150 yard slide. Every time I told this story, I got asked "Snowboarder?". No, it was a skier. The fact that I was asked the same question over and over speaks volumes about our prejudices. It was simply a teenager who got caught in a situation he was not prepared for and did not know what to do. He did not know how to self arrest. He did not know to look where he was sliding and warn others or take defensive measures (he could have easily slid into the trees).

I also rode at Killington this year. On one semi crowded trail, another rider pushed against my shoulder as he rode by me (I was moving at the time)to avoid hitting me. Unfortunately, the unexpected pressure triggered a muscle spasm that felled me. Did he stop and introduce himself ("Sorry dude")? No. Was it a big deal? No. Was it less of a deal because he was another rider? Yes. Why is that? What he did was wrong and should have been corrected. Fortunately, one of our group knew him and promised to talk to him later.

I hear collision stories at Whitetail all the time. The skiers complain about getting hit by the riders. The riders complain about getting hit by the skiers. I'm left to marvel at the statistical miracle about how only skiers hit riders and vice versa. There is another explanation.
post #60 of 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
Well, you claim this is a problem at two of the three hills and you say you DO ski at two of the three, so I figured that this is a problem at one of the places you ski as well as the one you refuse to visit. If it's too much trouble to talk to the instructor, how is it not too much trouble to whine about it here? Maybe you like to have something to complain about instead of making a small effort towords solving the "problem".
Nope--not whining at all, and if you look to my original post you'll see my message is simple and quite the opposite of complaining about the situation: Ski elsewhere if you don't like the circumstances you encounter on the hill.

BTW--I think if you read therusty's response you'll see why I don't think talking to the instructor would solve anything. If an instructors part of the problem, I doubt he's willing to be part of the solution.

Also--to be fair, I'll concede that at Whitetail it's only an issue on the green runs, which doesn't affect me. But it does affect the folks that are capable skiers, yet like skiing the runs such as SnowPark. Personally I think these folks deserve to have the ability to enjoy their experience without traversing around an entire class and an instructor spanning the trail. But that's just my opinion, and obviously not one shared by at least one Whitetail instructor. Silly me...
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