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Steamboat sold - Page 2

post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tam View Post
I can guarantee you that lifts and season passes are our #1 money-maker (hint: I work in finance for Steamboat)

And breckview, I like your idea for a vail-type unit pass.

And jhcooley, excellent post, I couldn't agree with you more.
Maybe that's why they couldn't make a profit, because many of the front range resorts practically give their passes away and they're all making money?

Makes you think many people feel like I do. Tam, first let me welcome you to Epic Ski. It's good to have someone from Steamboat online with us whi has inside knowledge and information about the Resort. You can be a tremendous help here and hope you make time to do so.

I first went to Steamboat in 1981. My Sister in Law lived in Kremmling at the time and we skied there every time we visited, which was quite often. It was like a second home to us. My kids practically grew up skiing there, 3 and 4 when they first skied there. My Son grew up loving the place and went to CMC there in Steamboat for two years. We've seen the changes in the past 25 years. More so than others who have only been there a few times. One thing has always remained for us as a family. Steamboat is still a second home and a favorite. But, what used to be four trips a year to Steamboat is now just a thought and memories as I have said, they priced themselves out of my market. As much as I still love the place, I can't justify spending $4000 plus a year to ski there when we can ski the Vail Resorts and Copper for one third that. I'm just one of many that I've taked to who feel this way. I'm a tourist. You take all the front range skiers and give them to ski the Boat as reasonably as say Breckenridge or Copper and they might not do the extra drive ever weekend but they certainly will a whole lot more often then they do now. Better Pass deals will increase the skier visit numbers at Steamboat. Give them an extra $20 a day in their pocket by a cheaper pass or lift ticket and they'll spend it in town or at the resort, maybe one of those $15 hamburgs or something. Cheaper passes will help, not hurt.
post #32 of 48
could make things interesting for vacationers splitting between Winter Park and Steamboat - only about 1½ hr drive between WP and Steamboat, and same between Copper and WP.
post #33 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
Maybe that's why they couldn't make a profit, because many of the front range resorts practically give their passes away and they're all making money?
Just to clarify one thing, because alot of people assume since ASC has financial woes, that means all of their ski areas are suffering... Steamboat is actually a fairly profitable ski area... yes it's doesn't make the profit that Vail does, but I doubt that would even be possible simply due to location of the mountain. This is an article that was leaked to the media back in Sept:

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_4370763
post #34 of 48
First, the deal has not actually closed yet

Second, we will be so happy when ASC is gone (not till end of season as I hear it)

And third, it's been pointed out already , but it seem that lots of you missed it: ASC sold off most of the realestate at the base that used to be part of the resort.
post #35 of 48
it's too bad the sale to the muellers didn't go through a few years ago. they've done some great things to cb's mtn in the past two years. hopefully intrawest can spruce the place up, steamboat is one of my favorite ski areas/towns in colorado.
post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
We note that RCR, which operates Fernie, Kimberly and Lake Louise, among others (all in Canada), appears to be functioning reasonably well using almost exclusively full price lift tickets and destination packages. Discount tickets for RCR resorts are not available at 7-11, Safeway, or anywhere else that I've been able to find. Season passes are also expensive, and the only discounts on day passes are through a card that must be purchased to the tune of $70. Like Steamboat, Fernie has a number of nice independent restaurants and bars right at the base (though not nearly as many as Steamboat), and we're sure they pay for the privilege of being there. The day lodge, on the other hand, is small for a resort the size of Fernie, and, amazingly, has only one napkin dispenser for the entire cafeteria. There is no subsidized bus service to town. At least ASC helped pay for the buses! Anyway, the message is, "Pay full price for the lift ticket, and you can ski, but don't expect anything else."

Intrawest, on the other hand (at least in Colorado), goes to great lengths to make it easy and pleasant to spend money. Make no mistake, they're at least as dedicated to separating you from your cash as ASC or RCR - they just seem to be a bit more subtle and indirect about it. They also provide buses and napkins and discount tickets! Their guest service is usually pretty decent (although it has its low points).

I suspect that the changes at Steamboat may be positive for many of the guests, but it might not include discount tickets and passes, except for the usual destination packages. Further, we hope that Intrawest manages to have a better relationship with the town than ASC had, but I'm sure it won't be painless.
There are the midweek buy 1/get 1 at 50% discount coupons for RCR resorts available in the Student Union Ticket Pack (and I presume the Entertainment Guide book). I don't know that I'd use RCR as a good model since they shut down 2 small hills (Wintergreen and Fortress) in the last few years to consolidate around their bigger resorts and up until the current record-breaking snow year looked to be having financial difficulties.

Interesting to note that Panorama (another Intrawest resort) is currently offering the SnowMax card in conjunction with Kicking Horse ($119 for four days at either resort). Other than that, most of the action at Panorama seems to be weekend, midweek, or week long ski & lodging packages using the condo base at the resort, and Intrawest has also been rapidly building up the real estate base there. Panorama is probably a good comparison resort since they are also about an hour and a half farther back from Sunshine and Louise. Of course that whole dynamic will change if and when Jumbo resort gets off the ground.
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorm57 View Post
Ouch ... watch out for your wallet. This does not typically bode well for the skier, as Intrawest loves to build up the "comfort amenities" ancillary to the skiing, and in the process drive up the price of everything related to skiing ... lift tickets, food, parking, etc.

Snowshoe, WV is a prime example.
Rocky Mountain Super Pass (Copper and WP) for $349. With that I received a ton of discounts on lift tics for others, and gear. Not exactly hitting me in the wallet. Sure there is the $5 soda on the hill, thats what God made Camelbaks for!

Bring on the Triple Pass!
post #38 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by coskibum View Post
it's too bad the sale to the muellers didn't go through a few years ago. they've done some great things to cb's mtn in the past two years. hopefully intrawest can spruce the place up, steamboat is one of my favorite ski areas/towns in colorado.
The sale price a couple of years ago was 91m, the Intrawest deal is 265m, waiting seems to have been the better idea. A 174m better.
post #39 of 48
As regards the multi card, if you have a current season pass for one Intrawest resort, you generally get a 50% discount on tickets at any other Intrawest resort. The only exceptions are Copper and Winterpark, where you have to buy the Superpass to get both. You also get discounts on lodging if you call a special number. So I would expect there will be some kind of package deal.

I'm not necessarily a fan of Intrawest, for example I think their architecture sucks, kind of like a Disney McVillage. But then I do have a season pass with them, so I can't complain too much.

Even if the real estate at the bottom of the mountain doesn't follow with the resort, there is still a fair amount of unbuilt territory down there. And I have noticed the condos and houses also going up the side of the gondola the last few years. I agree with ssh, it will be very interesting to see which direction they take this in.
post #40 of 48
Hmm, interesting, I am heading there this weekend. I was playing around on the real estate sites and have noticed that the resort is need of a face lift. I would imagine that there could be a major face-lift in the near future. Buy now???
post #41 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
Hmm, interesting, I am heading there this weekend. I was playing around on the real estate sites and have noticed that the resort is need of a face lift. I would imagine that there could be a major face-lift in the near future. Buy now???
Highly depends on whether or not Intrawest acquires the Sheraton properties that are for sale (sheraton/ski time square). Without those properties, there isn't much they could do to in terms of a facelift to the base-area... steamboat doesn't really own any of the land in the base-area (included gondola square), it's all pods of different ownership. So I'd keep an eye on that sale first.
post #42 of 48
tam, does Steamboat own the parking lots over by the tennis courts and the safe driving course? There's really not many places to develope around the base area. The town itself really doesn't want any developments over there. What they need to do is put another base area and a lift to serve the mountain over by the ranch and up to the Rendevous Saddle, Sunshine area. It would really open up the access and spread out the traffic and parking. Having more than two ways to access the mountain from the base area would spur developement and interest.
post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
tam, does Steamboat own the parking lots over by the tennis courts and the safe driving course?...
Interesting point. The parking lots is where most of the Winter Park base expansion is taking place.
post #44 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post
tam, does Steamboat own the parking lots over by the tennis courts and the safe driving course? There's really not many places to develope around the base area. The town itself really doesn't want any developments over there. What they need to do is put another base area and a lift to serve the mountain over by the ranch and up to the Rendevous Saddle, Sunshine area. It would really open up the access and spread out the traffic and parking. Having more than two ways to access the mountain from the base area would spur developement and interest.
The meadows parking lot itself will remain undeveloped, I don't think ski corp. owns the lot, but I'm pretty sure there is some type of easement/agreement that keeps the lot itself as a parking lot... however all the land around the lot is being developed currently by Whitney Ward... they already started regrading all that land where the winter driving school is held. In the near future there will be a 'gondola' of sorts that goes from the new devopment (Wildhorse Meadows as it's been dubbed) to what is currently Lot 1 (which will also be developed in the near future as One Steamboat Place). I saw the conceptual drawings and it is ridiculous how different that whole area will look.
post #45 of 48
...and the Hard Rock Hotel has been scheduled to go up in the Chapel lot at Copper (even if the Hard Rock sale changes this, expect to see a high-end hotel on that land). Interesting...
post #46 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tam View Post
(hint: I work in finance for Steamboat)
Good point. We should talk about that aspect - what's going to happen to the staff. Here's my predictions.

Intrawest Colorado (somewhat renamed) will be the controlling party here. It was formed shortly after Intrawest bought Winter Park and consolidates a lot of back of the house stuff for other entities such as the Breeze/Max retail shops, Lake Las Vegas, Squaw, Three Peaks/Raven golf, Starbucks, etc. So let's look at the different operations..

Finance.. hate to say, but you'll probably lose your job tam. In fact, your head will be one of the first on the chopping block. Ain't nuthin' Intrawest likes to do more than fire accountants. The only vestiges of accounting left at Copper and Winter Park is revenue accounting. You'll be offered a job in Golden at the Shared Services office. If you choose not to take it, once you find out you're losing your job, you'll be offered a bonus for sticking around until the transition is done. Usually those are negotiable - ask for more.

Next up, sales and marketing. There will be an odd consolidation here. About half the staff will probably get frustrated and leave on their own. The rest will get to keep their jobs. Destination sales will be the hardest hit - those operations are run out of Vancouver. Front range sales will also take a beating.

IT.. this one should be interesting. With the current head of IT for Intrawest Colorado being fairly politically driven, there's going to be some headbutting with your current IT director. I could see her firing him and then keeping the rest of the staff. If you have help desk operations, I'd expect them to lose their jobs or get promoted. For the most part, life won't change for the techs. A bunch of your current software will be completely scrapped and you'll get to learn all new systems - RTP, SAP, Kronos, Micros.

Human resources will lose some folks too. I'd expect front-line HR to remain unaffected and some of the managers to stick around too. But anyone like a benefits, payroll, or recruiting supervisor should be a little worried. I would expect those jobs will be slowly eliminated over time as people leave rather through outright firing.

Lodging - again, an oddball. Without knowing how your lodging works it's hard to say what will happen. If you have a cen res style call center, it'll probably stick around. If you have a separate call center, then it'll probably go away. Frontline lodging and property management staff won't change.

(As far as the guest-facing aspects, I think a lot of comments in this thread were dead on. Some development will be done, some kind of ticket deal will occur, etc. About the only thing I have to add to that is the current ITWCO directors are very focused on front-range traffic and they're going to apply that mentality to Steamboat as well.)

Look on the bright side, you'll probably a have a shiny, new Starbucks soon.
post #47 of 48
They already got a Starbucks and Quiznos down in the plaza.

Maybe they will can Billy Kidd and get rid of that ugly Bronze Statue of him in Gondola Square.

And the Cowboy hat.

Merry Christmas Vinn. I'll be in Frisco in 2 weeks, make some turns?
post #48 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn View Post
Finance.. hate to say, but you'll probably lose your job tam. In fact, your head will be one of the first on the chopping block. Ain't nuthin' Intrawest likes to do more than fire accountants. The only vestiges of accounting left at Copper and Winter Park is revenue accounting.
I'm not an accountant, I'm the internal revenue audit manager... so actually my job is pretty safe, maybe restructured slightly to be more of a cash room manager type thing. (Edit: In case you don't know, our internal audit dept is basically revenue accounting.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn View Post
IT.. this one should be interesting.... A bunch of your current software will be completely scrapped and you'll get to learn all new systems - RTP, SAP, Kronos, Micros.
Already use Kronos and Micros... RTP would be much better than our salespoint software (Sirius, and F&B just had Digital Dining installed at some outlets... pieces of crap).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinn View Post
Look on the bright side, you'll probably a have a shiny, new Starbucks soon.
We already have three.
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