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Helmets? Second guessing - Page 2

post #31 of 91
I have been wearing a helmet for over 10 years. I have hit any number items including ice, snow making pipes, trail signs, trees. The big plus I find is that they come in handle braking tree limbs here in the East.

Have you ever seen someone fall while walking around outside the base lodge. I wear mine when ever I'm outside at a ski area. Even walking through the parking lot.
post #32 of 91
After hundreds of whacks on the noggin with the "safety bar", I bought a helmet. I am now one happy man. Best yet I haven't had to push anyone off the chair for 3 years!!! O.K. I got the helmet 4 years ago but it took a year of AA to get over the "idiot push" addiction.

I agree with Oboe. LEGISLATE - NOW!!! Buy American, that includes legal services.

I have an amendment to Oboe's legislation: If anyone is so dumb as to actually take increased "super risks" just because they are wearing a helmet they must wear a special helmet that makes them feel more confident but provides no additional protection. We could call it the "Darwin Awards Helmet".

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

post #33 of 91
Originally posted by Maddog1959:
After hundreds of whacks on the noggin with the "safety bar", I bought a helmet.

but it took a year of AA to get over the "idiot push" addiction.

Let's see now, 100's of wacks in the head and you still didn't learn to sit back when you got on the chair? Pavlov had more behavior modification success with lab rats.
post #34 of 91
Originally posted by Max Capacity:
Have you ever seen someone fall while walking around outside the base lodge. I wear mine when ever I'm outside at a ski area. Even walking through the parking lot.
Yeah, but do you wear it in the car on the way to the ski area??

I've been thinking about getting a helmet for a while, and finally pulled the trigger on a Leedom last night. Thanks to this thread for giving me the final kick in the pants. I've been skiing faster and harder in recent years. Luckily, I have not had a major crash in years, but I can see where a helmet would definitely save my bacon, and perhaps preserve a good day of skiing, next time I spill.

Many years ago, I did a major face plant which resulted in a bloody nose and headache. Worst part was that it ruined my day, I had to stop skiing before lunch! At the very least, if the helmet can help me avoid things like that, it will be worth it. If it prevents some injuries, even better!

post #35 of 91
I'd like to weigh in with some some thoughts and questions on this on this topic. As far as a law is concerned. NOPE! Not needed.
There was an article in TPS about 5 years ago about rates of injury, who was most at risk, what helmets were designed for etc.The numbers presented, when worked into an equasion, seemed to work out to something like .00002% chance that I could expect a head injury requiring a hospital visit on any given day I went skiing. I suspect that if I need a helmet to ski, I need a helmet to drive even more.
For John Mason and Inspector Gadget. I gave up racing and started teaching because of 4 neck injuries. My physical therapist had said "Boy the ligaments in your neck are REALLY LOOSE and will be of no use for holding up your head the rest of your life. The extra weight of a helmet would have made injuries 2-4 worse ,and would increase the risk of another injury. Whenever I fall the first thing I'm concerned with is my neck.
The Mayo Clinic report is of particular interest as my father died as a result of Parkinsons 5 months ago. I know dad never had a head injury except for the one that killed him. ( Should all parkinsons patients wear a helmet because of their increased probability of falling? )
Note that the study was only of 196 cases. Thats a pretty small sample with SO many other possable influences.
The stress of worrying about this may be more detrimental to one's health then the small amount of protection provided by the helmet. Of course if wearing the helmet reduces worry, that may improve health.
I'd like to see studies done comparing risk based on human hours spent engaged in the activity. Again I think driving is riskier then skiing. The last time I saw a comparison of sports vs injury, football was 1st and skiing was #12.
Sorry for the long response. This topic hits home for several reasons.

[ April 01, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: KAZOOSKI ]
post #36 of 91

I saw the statement below at www.thecni.org/reviews/11-1-p27-levy.htm and found it extremely interesting that both motorcycle and bicycle helmets are lab tested only at about 14 mph. However, it seems to me that bicyclists and especially motorcyclists go much faster than 14 mph and seem to survive crashes while wearing helmets.

If this is true, some folks who wear ski helmets may be likely to survive crashes at speeds much higher than 14 mph.

What do you think? Do you have any anecdotal evidence from personal experiences with crashing on a bicycle/motorcycle/skis/snowboard at speeds greater than 14 mph while wearing a helmet and surviving or know anyone who has?

"A popular criticism of ski helmets is that they do not provide protection in collisions over 12 to 14 mph. This figure is often cited as a reason not to wear or endorse helmets. This figure comes from a laboratory test in which a helmet is secured to a metal test headform and dropped from a height to achieve a specified impact velocity onto a solid steel anvil.11 The reported impact speeds are misleading if interpreted literally, and helmets are felt to provide effective protection against brain injury at speeds beyond the test velocity. For example, motorcycle helmets are tested at flat anvil impacts of 13.4 mph, yet there is overwhelming clinical evidence that they provide substantial protection against brain injury at much higher speeds.15-17 Similarly, impact velocities specified for bicycle helmets range from 10 to 14 mph, yet again clinical experience clearly indicates significant protection in collisions at higher speeds. Thompson and Patterson found that bicycle helmets reduce the risk of head injury by 85%, brain injury by 88%, and severe brain injury by 75%, and that they are just as effective in collisions involving motor vehicles.18 Finally, the helmeted skiers and boarders in our series who made full recoveries despite major mechanisms, provide direct clinical evidence that ski helmets can afford protection in collisions exceeding 12 to 14 mph. Helmets may not prevent every injury, but in all the cases we have seen to date, they have mitigated potentially fatal or disabling head injuries into fully recoverable injuries."
post #37 of 91
For years, cars were operated by drivers haveing no seatbelts, and most of them survived. Nevertheless, the seatbelt has been responsible for saving lives, as have other devices such as the air bag and automobile construction. The above post is probably one of the most sensible posted on this forum regarding helmets and head injuries.

As a one-time hold out, I now where a helmet. It's a Giro Fusion - very light, vents adjustable with a single lever with further optional venting, removable ear covers, and very highly rated for impact compared to others. It does a great job of holding goggles in place, blocks wind and rain, and, in all candor, is very comfortable. Let's face it - the thing is a HAT, and it just happens to be a hat with a lot of neat features.

Skiing is far less dangerous than football and WAAAAY less dangerous than driving or arising from the hopper in a crouched position following evacuation when there's a surpise door edge on which to bang one's head. On the other hand, it's more dangerous than walking around in most circumstances.

I am so accustomed to wearing my Giro Fusion that on the very rare occasion when I forget to bring it, I feel naked without it. Under other circumstances, naked is good - here, it's not so good. I don't care what others choose to do and I choose not to harangue them about it. For me, though, it's what I like to do.
post #38 of 91
P.S. Seatbelts keep drivers in place and aid in their retaining control of their vehicles, a feature which affects others. When ski helmets can be shown to do the same, I may reconsider my no harangue policy.
post #39 of 91
a helmet saved my life in a motorcycle accident i was riding on the back maybe 30-35 miles an hour -a car with a 72 yr old lady comes out in front and WHAM! i don't remember anything after that i woke up in the ambulance. concussion, multple scars, ripped my favorite jeans, legs, ass, arms. saw the full face helmet afterwards- totally smashed.i was in the hospital for a week and had to walk with crutches for about amonth had a fractured pelvis.
thinking this over, maybe i will get a helmet for skiing....
post #40 of 91
I predict we'll have a helmet law before long. It's perfect "feel-good" legislation.
post #41 of 91
It worked for the motorcycle helmets, but there was no opposing organized well funded lobby, as there may be in the case of the ski areas.

The ski areas lobby versus the insurance lobby - you place your bets. . . unless the ski areas actually LIKE the idea. In that case, nolo's prediction may establish her standing as an oracle. It won't be enacted on a "feel good" basis, though. It will be the usual blend of business interests and lobbying power.
post #42 of 91
Why do racers wear helmets? From JRs to World Cuppers.
post #43 of 91
You guys who don't like helmets can say whatever you want to support your beliefs.

Don't wear them.

We have already beat this horse many times.

A helmet will help deflect your head from a tree, pipe, rock, or whatever else. Nothing will save you from a head on collision.

I'll take my chance wearing a helmet and set a good example for kids and teenagers at the same time.

KAZOOSKI, wouldn't a helmet help stabalize your neck in a fall as opposed to your neck snapping back, forward, or to the sides? A helmet will reduce the distance your noggin is going to travel to slam on the ice. Right?
post #44 of 91
you fall and hit your head.
maybe someone takes you out.
maybe it has nothing to do with anything you've done but the unforeseen happens and you hit your head, hard or not so hard. your head has made contact with an object.

do you want the helmet or not?

this remains the silliest "argument" still going in snowsports.
post #45 of 91
I almost always wear mine, I own 3 of them. I grew up as a racer and I know what a gate to the head feels like. At my resort there are too many people on the hill at a time. Most can not ski in control. Skier/Rider to skier/rider accidents are very common. I was struck by an out of control person 5 times this year while giving children’s lessons. Skiing is a risky sport. There are no arguments around that. My helmet has turned many possible rides on the sled into just a little headache.
post #46 of 91
Helmets, well, I've been wearin' 'em about 9 years now. I wear one all the time, well almost. I didn't wear it Saturday afternoon for the first time.

We were at Killington skiing all over. At lunch I put on a baseball hat and forgot it was on. We headed to the lifts when I realized at the top what I had on top. It was warm so I tucked the hat into my coat and skied all afternoon. trees in places I can't tell you about, vertigo, ovation and the canyon. I didn't feel unsafe without the lid.

I started to wear helmets because I scared the xxxx out of myself one rainy afternoon. Fell while wearing full-on rain gear. That stuff is fast. Headed towards to woods on my back, couldn't self arrest. I could branches overhead, tuck and cover...the berm on the side of the trail kept me from going into the woods. I bought a helmet the following week.

I'm a mountain rep for OVO helmets. 3rd season. Lots of vents and the ear flaps are removable.

post #47 of 91
What group would most benefit from mandatory helmet legislation?
post #48 of 91
Cruise lines, amusement parks, etc... You know. Things people will do instead of go on a ski vacation because, as if there isn't already enough of a hassle involved, now they got nannies looking over their shoulder when they GO ON VACATION.
post #49 of 91
New Jersey's first attempt at a helmet law
My helmet is the best hat I've ever worn. It's my choice to wear one and it should stay that way. What's next, helmet police on the slopes? :
Lawyers are the biggest beneficiary’s of government regulations.
post #50 of 91
I definitely think helmet manufacturers would benefit.

Would the skiing public benefit? Wouldn't that be the only justifiable reason for such a law?

Or would it be a dealbreaker and a good reason to do something else, as ShiftyRider says?
post #51 of 91
There's not much need for a helmet on a cruise.
post #52 of 91
Maybe not pass a law but why not include helmets as part of a rental package for folks learning to ski. If you are accustomed to wearing one from the get go, more likely than not you'll continue to wear one. Started with a boeri this year, will only ski with it on after taking out a snowmaking pipe at Okemo at the end of February. If I didn't have the impact with the pipe, a tree was next in line. My wife and I wore them every day on a recent Utah trip. The temps were in the 60's and the helmets were not an issue, except it kept me from getting dome burn.
post #53 of 91
Most resort rental shops already offer helmet rentals FOR AN ADDITIONAL FEE. By all means rent or buy a helmet.

If you are accustomed to wearing one from the get go, more likely than not you'll continue to wear one.
And what does that have to do with anything? The risk of a head injury while recreationally skiing is so infintesimally small that noone recognized that risk until Sonny Bono bought the farm!!! Does anybody understand how government health and safety agencies work? There are databases that list every risk, its likelihood, and the cost of mitigation. Then there's a formula: (1 - likelihood) x mitigation$. Now sort. By the time society mitigated the more likely risks, the money for a ski helmet is long gone, spent on better risk mitigation elsewhere.

Sorry for the rant.
post #54 of 91
First, let me say that I believe it a personal choice and not something that the government or even the resort should have a say so in.

I am aware of the advantages of seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, bicycle helmets, and even ski helmets. I hate all of them, especially bicycle helmets. I'm not saying I don't usually wear them (except for the ski helmet) but I don't like them and resent it whenever someone thinks they know what's best for me and tries to force me to comply.

I don't wear a ski helmet, probably because I just haven't wanted to shell out the money for one yet. That being said, the worst I've ever hurt myself skiing involves a head injury that I bet a helmet would have prevented. I think it was 1993. I had just skiied down from the summit at Mammoth and was traversing an easy run near the bottom, not really paying attention, when I hit some cat-tracks that had been iced over. I spun around and landed on my back and hit my head on the ice-hard. I think I blacked out for about a second. Head hurt a little the rest of the day.
post #55 of 91
That was a ploy, right?
post #56 of 91
Originally posted by nolo:
Should we pass a law?
Originally posted by oboe:
Definitely. Pass a law. In fact, while we're at it, let's pass SEVERAL laws. Really, laws are good.

So, for heaven's sake, PASS A LAW!
Personally, I find it more than a little amusing that we progress from what I interpreted as tongue-in-cheek statements from nolo and oboe to a legislative debate. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I, for one, don't need convincing; but, Ski03's post (April 01, 2004 02:39 PM), is - as noted by oboe -
...probably one of the most sensible posted on this forum regarding helmets and head injuries.
Should everyone wear a helmet? That decision rests with everyone individually. I won't say I don't care what you choose to do; but, next time I bonk my head - which could be momentarily as I forgot to spring forward and now I'm late for skiing - I'll remember why I wear a helmet. Will you remember :

Let's face it - the thing is a HAT, and it just happens to be a hat with a lot of neat features.
Ultimately, which hat you choose is up to you. I've made my choice.

post #57 of 91
Wow! What a unique and interesting thread. :
post #58 of 91
Indeed. I'm glad people waited a full 14 days from the last one to bring this topic up again.
post #59 of 91
I am voting for John Kerry. John skis and snowboards without a helmet. John is cool. : [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #60 of 91
Just shows you what he means by "pro choice".
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