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20 to Life .... life is unfair!

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was doing an environmental inspection in a prison the other day. Basketball courts and weight rooms. No kidding..... two guys in a GED course and the rest playing BB or pumping up.

So ...... I asked why? ...... "the prisoners demand it or they act up" said my escort!!!!!

Would the "powers that be" cater to me if I demanded a hill with decent cover and a pair of SL's?

I just have to figure out what crime I'm gonna do and where ...... then demand my equal rights under the Constitution!

Any ACLU types gonna do a pro bono on this one??? :
post #2 of 24
They might be crims but they are still people and entitled to a certain standard of living.

Also I imagine that bored prisoners are troublesome prisoners as well. Probably useful for control.

They also have something they can take away if a prisoner is naughty, and I imagine access to those things is like gold if you were in the can.
post #3 of 24
Yeah, you don't want prisoners to start thinking they have nothing to lose. A riot probably starts looking pretty good.

At least this way, they do have something to lose.
post #4 of 24
But then, many cops rue the fact that these guys get out of prison and they are really muscle bound. Hard to take down and arrest when they mess up again, which they almost always do.

In Portland, OR. there's jail called Inverness. I've worked there at nights in the past with a buddy of mine, doing the floors... wax etc. They've got it all! I mentioned this to my mom's boyfriend who is a Multnomah County Sherrif (ret.) his resopnse was, "Yep, when I retire I want to live at Inverness!" Many prisoners never had it so good as in prison. # a day, a bed, warm room, color TV and weight rooms to build the body not the mind. And this is punishment? If you do a crime I thought you lost your "rights"! But we have to remember... it's not their fault. It's their parents' fault, or their hard life as a kid, never their fault. They aren't bad people; they just made a bad choice! Don't hurt their self-esteem! :
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
In reality I am dead sent against these pump iron programs for prisoners. I have spent lots of time in jails .... No, not as an inmate, but as an asst. coach/lifeguard and later as a "counselor".

What you end up with is a 230 pound "dude with a tude" who is going to get out in six months and use that muscle to enhance their "career" ...... as well as posing a threat to the officers and staff.

When I was in that job I had to keep my weight in the 190 range just to be "competitive"..... read not an easy target.

You have to walk a mile in a guard/officers shoes before you realize what a miserable life they have. If you can imagine going to work every day looking forward to being cursed at, spit upon pushed and prodded. I feel little or no sympathy for the cons .... odd .... out of the hundreds that I worked with, only two admitted guilt. I went into that system a very liberal person and came out very changed.

BTW this topic was intended to inject a bit of humor ..... not be a rant.... :
post #6 of 24
As this relates to SKIING, if that were taken away from you, the other stuff would never make up for it.
post #7 of 24
Ok, we might as well get into a discussion of the whole imprisonment/jail reform issue.

I don't think having a gym in a prison means you get 230lb guys with attitude. If it is a hardcore prison then they are going to usually come out harder then when they went in, probably have a terrible attitude anyway, and most probably are and always will be multiple offenders.

Whether there is a gym in the prison is irrelevant, there are more ways than going to a gym to make yourself strong.

Like I said in an earlier post, you have to take into account how the particular jail controls 400-500(?)criminals. Do you think deprivation is going to achieve that or would that just possibly exacerbate the tensions that would run rampant in a jail anyway?

And regarding depriving them of rights - deprivation of freedom would seem a pretty good one to me. TV? Who gives a stuff about having a TV if you are locked in a concrete hell-hole 24 hours a day for 20 years with 400 other crims? It wouldn't give me much solace. They are hardly comforts when measured in the context of the environment they are in.

I don't care what creature comforts they have as long as they don't have access to me, my house, my friends and family.
post #8 of 24
But we have to remember... it's not their fault. It's their parents' fault, or their hard life as a kid, never their fault. They aren't bad people; they just made a bad choice! Don't hurt their self-esteem!

hey Dog, did you and I have the same Human Ethics professor? That sounds exactly like my regular sarcastic but heartfelt view on the Country Clubs we know as prison... and that's the description of a Blue Collar prison. Can you imagine how nice a life Kenny Lay will have when he finally gets convicted of some White Collar crime and sent to Ultimate Country Club State Reformatory-Correctional Institute-Golf Rehabilitation Complex?

double-GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrr!
: :
post #9 of 24
But why did they ever stop making license plates? I think the inmate should be made to farm, if they want exercise, keeping the available impliments to a minimum of course. Then they wouldn't cost the taxpayer more to house for a year than an Ivy League education.

xxL
post #10 of 24
Country Club!

Anybody seen Oz?
post #11 of 24
I really love this subject of discussion, I really do. I also really wonder why it is in "General SKI Discussion" on this "Epic SKI" site. It's perhaps testimony that this site and this format just invites discussion. Should it be in a new "General Discussion" forum on this site? Should AC build a whole other site to be a general discussion site? Maybe with advertizers to foot the bill? It's not that the discussion, or the subject of the dicussion, are bad at all. I just wonder if it's being posted in an appropriate place and what it does to this as a ski site.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 14, 2002 11:53 AM: Message edited 1 time, by oboe ]</font>
post #12 of 24
Ok Lets bring this back to skiing.Well as close as we can bring this topic back to skiing. I know that many of the Utah resorts use "honor Prisioners" for doing on mountain improvment in the summer.The prisoners are doing work like thinning out trees,cutting down brush ect...Pretty much just nasty grunt labor. Wnen needed They also help fight forest fires.I guess they earn a littel money.IMHO Have them do some sort of work is a hell of a lot Better then Having them sitting around in a prision thinking up more ways to Rip people off.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Oboe: It was my intent to point out that if one of the Bears were convicted of a crime we should be able to SKI as our form of recreation while confined. If you can make provisions for basketball and soccer in prison.

To deprive me of it would ammount to deprivation of my rights and as Slatz said in West Side Story ......"I'm depraved on account a I'm deprived.
post #14 of 24
oh, yuk yuk, yuki [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #15 of 24
Here in British Columbia, the government that was voted out of power last spring took a lot of flack for funding a ski program for minimum security prisoners. It was supposed to help the prisoners "find themselves" or some BS like that so they wouldn't reoffend when they got out. I don't think something like that would fly in the States though....
post #16 of 24
And they all gave up skiing and became snowboarders when they got out of jail!!!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 15, 2002 04:05 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Riccardo ]</font>
post #17 of 24
Quote from Yuki

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I feel little or no sympathy for the cons .... odd .... out of the hundreds that I worked with, only two admitted guilt. I went into that system a very liberal person and came out very changed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe this says more about the court system than the people in the jails?

Oboe

Who cares if the discussion moves away from skiing on occasion? The site attracts skiers and skiers sometimes have points of view on topics other than skiing. Think of this as conversation that you might have on a chair lift, I mean just cause you are on a ski field doesn't mean you talk skiing 100% of the time.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 15, 2002 02:22 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Riccardo ]</font>
post #18 of 24
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Riccardo:
Think of this as conversation that you might have on a chair lift<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good analogy Riccardo. Chairlift convo's are like little gems of info and interaction often with strangers than can be the beginnings of friendships and legend.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
Bill Johnson (see other thread), got his start skiing as a part of a California youth offenders program.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 15, 2002 04:15 AM: Message edited 1 time, by yuki ]</font>
post #20 of 24
Riccardo, your point is well made and well taken. This is my own opinion, though, that chats which are not skiing related are fine, but some of them really would be better pesented in another part of the site - otherwise, the forum titles lose their utility. I know I've been a steady drummer on this subject. The discussion on this particular thread really is interesting to me, and it would be tempting to say, "Well, THIS is ok, because I like it" and then want to move some other chat to the next room because it is perhaps "banal" in my own view [perhaps not in the view of others]. I'm trying to be fair about the concept regardless of my own preferences for one subject of conversation over another. We have a number of forums here, each with a name. We have "Gear", we have "Gear Reviews", and there is "Off season Sports", and "Randm Humor", etc. Why not a forum for general non-skiing conversation? I think some "straying" in a conversation from the label on the forum is not going to make the world end. However, when a post starts off from the get-go being about a subject that has nothing to do with the title of the forum, or nothing to do with skiing, it detracts from that forum and from this site. I started a thread on this subject to encourage ALL Bears to express their thoughts about it, and I think you have expressed yours very clearly and succintly, even if they are not the same as mine.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 15, 2002 05:47 AM: Message edited 1 time, by oboe ]</font>
post #21 of 24
I can see your point of view and you have a very valid argument. I don't disagree that if there was an "other" forum that this thread would have been better there.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 15, 2002 06:10 AM: Message edited 1 time, by Riccardo ]</font>
post #22 of 24
Can we please get back on topic here!

The farming idea is a good one, or how about proper community service? Get them to tidy up the streets, get the graffiti off the walls, get them doing menial tasks that others won't do.
As for letting them near ski areas, are the areas not busy enough with paying guests, never mind riding the lift with someone who has his ankles shackled together. (unless they are SCSA, in which case this is to be expected.)

S
post #23 of 24
if a prisoner pumps iron or not, that is not going to change whether or not they become repeat offenders.

even if they take away weights in jail, the guy is just going to pump up when he gets out any way, so when he hits the streets he won't be physically imposing, but he will bulk up again eventually. guys could just do push ups and exercise in their cells any ways...
post #24 of 24
Well, if I ever get caught, I'll keep this premise in mind. Skiing is my religion, and I must talk to the sky frequently!

It's not the crime,
It's not the thought.
It's not the deed,
it's if you get caught

Tower of Power

Some of the neatest offender training programs are the ones that train these folks to work with animals. Suceess with critters will not come from abusing them, and the trainees learn to take care of another being.

Valuable lessons that are good at changing a person's outlook. Benevolent training, NO HANDOUTS!

The analogy of the chairlift conversation to this forum is an amusing one. I like it...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ March 16, 2002 10:39 AM: Message edited 1 time, by SnoKarver ]</font>
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