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Cherchez les femmes? - Page 2

post #31 of 99
I think that women as they pass through the various stages of life, loose their interest in skiing becasue of other things that seem more important. By the time they raise a family, few see skiing as one of their prime choices for recreational activities. I think this is true now and has been for quite some time.

Frankly, I would like to see more women ski, but it is their life, and they have the right to choose to do with their free time as they wish. If skiing is not a viable choice....then I guess we will have to accept that.
post #32 of 99
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grue:


Bwaha! I knew I recognized those nicks! I'm jetta_fiend over on the vortex, haha,

hey, FlyHigh, you're local, and a vw driver, and and skiier, unthinkable! You in any of the local clubs?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL...small world. Not in any local clubs yet, but now that the holiday madness is over and I have some time, I'll have to look into it.
post #33 of 99
Thread Starter 
Wink,

I'm afraid you have avoided the issue by saying, "It's in the nature of the beast." If I might respectfully inquire, how do you know this?

Snow sports offer experiences that make people bigger. They give us a chance to say, "If I can do this, I can do anything."

They give us a chance to find our ZONE. I'm sure everyone on this forum knows what I am talking about when I say ZONE. If you don't, I refer you to FLOW, a book by an author with an impossible name. Zone and flow are when you are in your highest moment, hitting on all 8 cylinders, reaching, stretching, exceeding.

Now this makes me feel real bad, Wink, to hear you tell me, by implication, that women do not want to experience zone and flow.

I beg to differ. Women aren't skiing and boarding because they don't know what they're missing, which is finding their zone, their flow, their power. (A shaman in a 10-gallon hat told me this.) A person can find his/her zone on a mat in a martial arts class or by competing in marathons, but snow sports give regular people a shot at this type of development.

There's something really special about finding, expanding, and creating a zone a 35 MPH on a steep hill. But that's just one end of the spectrum. Anyone can find their zone in snow sports: even the first turns of a beginner can take place in a larger state of mind than the person arrived with. "If I can do this, I can do anything."

I truly believe that there are as many women as men who would want this benefit, because it is so useful in other areas of life, from rearing healthy children to succeeding at work to skillfully handling a car in snow.

You could call this an insider's view...
post #34 of 99
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nolobolono:
There's something really special about finding, expanding, and creating a zone a 35 MPH on a steep hill. But that's just one end of the spectrum. Anyone can find their zone in snow sports: even the first turns of a beginner can take place in a larger state of mind than the person arrived with. "If I can do this, I can do anything."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Truly, there is something very liberating about skiing. Sometimes when I'm up there on top of the mountain on a blue bird day I feel as if I could touch the sky. Then with a turn I am off racing down it's snow covered slopes conquering the elements, making them work to my advantage. My lungs fill with cool clean air, my heart pounds and all the time I feel very alive.

Once I reach the bottom the cycle starts over again and I am once again propelled to the top of the world...........
post #35 of 99
Lots of women on this board actually. LM, SkiMinker, Snack, LisaKaz (wassup with her disappearing anyway after Intl Affairs got closed?), you nolo, bethany, rossigirl, skibunnyk2, and that's just off the top of my head. Plus as riverc0il pointed out, probably lots more with gender-neutral names and non-identifying profiles.

Forgive me for being non-PC, but why do we need yet another "Why aren't there enough {insert your favorite 'special' class of potential 'victim' needing special treatment) here?" type of divisive question? Is skiing yet another area that needs "quotas"?

I don't know about you, but I see plenty of women here. I see plenty of women on the mountain, I hear plenty of women talking about skiing at work. I've had rippin' great women ski instructors.

What's the problem?

(and "women don't post online" - Yipes that's wrong. Studies have shown women use the internet for community a whole lot.)

Not showing my antlers, just amazed at why we need liberal PC victimology here.
post #36 of 99
Thread Starter 
Victimology?

That's a sure fire way to shut her up!

Nice demo, Mark.
post #37 of 99
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nolobolono:
Victimology?

That's a sure fire way to shut her up!

Nice demo, Mark.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. I'm defending the fact that women are equals and don't need to be treated as some kind of "special class."

Plenty of kick-*ss women in this forum and on the slopes. More power (and posts) to them.

I just reject the concept of women needing special treatment. Hey, wasn't that what feminism was all about back in the day?
post #38 of 99
nolobolono

36 posts about SFA. I think the wet collar on your one piece is starting to constrict the blood flow.

Oz

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 29, 2001 09:25 PM: Message edited 1 time, by man from oz ]</font>
post #39 of 99
As it happens, women with who I've skied in my bachelor days were usually far more accomplished at skiing than I. As it happens, tonight is the second anniversary of my marriage to a women who "likes" skiing. We don't ski together very often, but it's nice when we do. I have learned that insisting she "push the envelope" results in swear words and a very cold night. She has confessed that she has absolutely no interest in pursuing skiing to the same envelope edge as I [and I'm a fairly conservative skier]. Does this represent the general trend? I don't know, and I'm not sure that asking the question will lead to any useful insights. Freedom for women does not mean that they must use their freedom to be more like men, but that is [I'm truly sorry] beside the point. If there are barriers to women skiing, then it may be useful to identify them, remove them,and allow that much more freedom. However, inasmuch as there probably are no barriers to women posting on this site, and several do, the point of the intitial inquiry might be to collect the identities of who on this sight are women. So the question to nolo: What are the real questions we - or you - are seeking to answer in this thread?
post #40 of 99
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to check the attitudes out there, to see if I could get some wisdom about the low representation of women in the sport.

I think it's interesting that women go to health clubs and work out in far greater numbers than men, but they don't play sports in near the numbers men do. Why is that?

Here's what I found out on this thread: The women and some of the early male respondents seemed interested in discussing the topic--more interested in discussing it than many topics posted on this board, yet the topic ticked off some of the guys. Why is that?

I'm a curious person. I ask questions. Sometimes these questions make people uncomfortable or even angry. They complain that I have wasted their time on these stupid questions. The penultimate step is to hurl an insult in my direction. The ultimate step is to satirize the question.
post #41 of 99
nolo,

I've read this thing a few times and have come to the conclusion that this thread should be gonged.

Ya know nolo, I don't think anybody cares if you burn your bra -- so go right ahead. While you're at it, it's time to turn in your pin. You've taught way too many wedge turns and bad karma is catching up with you.
post #42 of 99
Well, for four decades, my wife Ann and I have skied everything together, or seperate, doesn't matter.

..Ott



<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 30, 2001 06:45 AM: Message edited 2 times, by Ott Gangl ]</font>
post #43 of 99
Thread Starter 
Mark,

You doth protest too much. But thanks for writing the thesis for us. Your post actually gets its arms pretty solidly around the symptoms.

Cause? Co-dependency. The woman enables the man to be Joe Skier by picking up the slack at home. She won't want to compete with you if she thinks your ego can't take it. Ever wonder why women who excel at sports are labeled as lesbians?

When I was in 6th grade I hit a homer during a pickup game at recess: one of the boys sneered, "No one will ever marry you!" I was as amazed then as I am now by this attitude.

Now: I thought you had instructed me not to talk about this any more. Let it be a dead moose. What the heck do I care? I am in the 16%. Let them wash clothes!

SCSA,

Weren't you the one sneering?

Ott,

Powder-8s this year? You two would be category killers.
post #44 of 99
Yeah, we do a lot of that precision playing, it's fun. Ann can keep a steady rythm through all kinds of varying terrain and I don't even look where I am going, I just time my pole plant exactly to hers and make sure I miss the tail of her skis by at least four inches. :

...Ott
post #45 of 99
Ott,

That looks like the bottom of Chair 11 at Vail. Am I right?
post #46 of 99
By Mark Mark,

"...Although I do like to work on technique, and often will choose an easier trail so that I can work on skills rather than do "survival skiing...",

That folks, is good advice. You get better on Green runs, not Black runs.
post #47 of 99
No, SCSA, that was in Taos on a hill wherever the photographer was located. Still on straight skis.

...Ott
post #48 of 99
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nolobolono:
Mark,
Now: I thought you had instructed me not to talk about this any more.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I said no such thing. Why do you so easily consider yourself "instructed"? Maybe a bit of "projection" going on here? I don't buy into the "women are so easily influenced by men" subtext of your posts.

I did challenge you to defend your proposition - and that's exactly what you invite by posting a potentially controversial issue on a public forum.

Now before you misquote me again, "controversial" in the paragraph above does NOT mean I think it's controversial that women should be skiing. Of course they should! If they so choose. What's controversial is making a gender-feminism-influenced statement that not enough women are skiing, because of something wrong with the sport or with "Joe Skier's" attitude.

I also said nothing about "co-dependency" - those are your words and I disagree with you. The whole pop-psychobabble about "co-dependency" of the past decade or so has gone way too far IMHO. Once again, YOU not I are labeling women with something that brands them as "victims" of "codependency". Stop the Insanity!

Hey, some of the most avid female skiers I know are self-defined slobs. Maybe to your point about "picking up the slack at home", you can't be an avid every-weekend, several ski-weeks, skier and pay a lot of attention to the home front regardless of your gender.

I've got an upstairs neighbor who religiously moves furniture and vacuums the entire house every weekend, both Sat. and Sun. If either Lisa or I were like that, we'd have a much neater apartment - but we wouldn't have the time to go skiing, to travel, to enjoy our other individual and shared interests.

I know some guys who are real homebodies and into their house, their projects, garden, interiors. That's cool too, but their value system precludes a "get away every weekend" sport. These guys aren't skiers. It's not a gender thing!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>She won't want to compete with you if she thinks your ego can't take it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh please! Leave that male-bashing nonsense back in the 70's where it belongs. You've got a ridiculously and offensively narrow stereotype about men if you believe that, and you weaken your thesis by resorting to male-bashing. I can't think of one active poster on this board who has ever been threatened by outstanding female skiers. While I can think of plenty of times where male skiers, myself among many, have talked about being instructed or inspired by excellent female skiers. The facts dispute your rhetoric.

Yeah, there was one teenage kid a year ago who didn't believe there could be any good "girl" new schoolers, but he got flamed for it. By other guys. And he hasn't posted here for ages.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ever wonder why women who excel at sports are labeled as lesbians? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another "Straw Woman" - this doesn't happen much at all nowadays. You're stuck in the 70's and 80's again, nolo. With the equal opportunities that Title IX brought for the past many years, men are used to women being excellent athletes. Men have daughters, girlfriends, wives who are athletic and have been so for as long as they've known them. Boys have grown up with moms who had them in the Baby Jogger since 2 weeks old. I know women who describe the perfect relationship as "hot sex and then go for a long run" with the guy. Face it - most men are quite used to women being serious amateur, elite, and professional athletes by now.

Not to mention the very many well-known elite female athletes who are quite obviously straight: Picabo, Anna, Gabi, many others.

Anyhow, in the 21st century, why are you saying "labeled as lesbians" as if it is casting an aspersion on someone? Not very PC on your part.

Now if your proposition is really that we need to get more people of all types trying our sport, for the thrills, self-esteem, flow states, wonders, that come with it - then I'm totally with you. But if you're looking for some quota system (there are only 40% women skiers and there must be 51%) then I'm sorry, I just don't think skiing is inherently gender-biased.

Cheers,
Mark

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 30, 2001 12:22 PM: Message edited 1 time, by MarkXS ]</font>
post #49 of 99
Thread Starter 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> As AC has pointed out in the past, this isn't "EpicGenderWars.com" so perhaps this would be better carried on at wordier, "weightier" places <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe.
post #50 of 99
The other day, I followed this young woman at Vail. She had great turns and it was great to ski behind her, watching her feet.

I'd love to hang with a great female skier -- from a learning standpoint. Because, where I sometimes get by with pure athleticism, a women doesn't. Her technique gets her thru. And I'm all about technique.

I'll probably end up turning with some gals once I'm in the Vail Valley more.
post #51 of 99
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Sometimes these questions make people uncomfortable or even angry. They complain that I have wasted their time on these stupid questions. The penultimate step is to hurl an insult in my direction. The ultimate step is to satirize the question. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nolo,

Ok, since you consider satire is the "ultimate step" in somehow attacking you, I won't do it. However, I seriously will suggest you don't ever go into any sort of public role, (politics, teaching, lecturing, etc.) though, if you think satire is the ultimate weapon. And especially if you think my rather mild parody was anywhere near what you'd find in a variety of venues both in RL or on the web. I don't know what your background is, but you seem a bit over-sensitive about people not answering your questions with what you'd like to hear.

Seriously, don't be so thin-skinned and take everything as an attack.

Hey, I could take your total mistatement of my point about "victimology" as an attack against me - but I won't. And I could take umbrage at your totally false accusation that I'm trying to "shut her up" (whoever the alleged "her" victim is in your statement) but I'll let that pass too. That mischaracterization of me was the closest to anything that could be construed as "hurl an insult" though.

Geez, we don't need people lighting off "pomposity bombs" here. BTW, your questions a) didn't make me uncomfortable, b) didn't make me angry, c)didn't make me complain that you wasted anyone's time, d) didn't make me call them "stupid questions". In fact reading the thread again I don't think anyone's reactions could correctly be defined as such - but it makes a nice straw man to rail against, doesn't it?

So I'll answer your original questions, even though I believe you are proceeding from false assumptions.

1) "Whats up with that" (re: few women on this forum). I still think your premise is false. I also forgot LindaA, Kima, Tellychick, and a bunch more in my earlier list of women regularly on this forum.

Now if you want to know if there is an exact 50-50 (or 51-49 to reflect population %) split, I think that's just making an issue out of something that isn't a problem. This forum has always been inviting to women, without being a "womens' forum". It just isn't necessarily inviting to people trying to set up "straw men" for their arguements. Whether those "straw men" are about gender balance or wedge turns.

2) Yes my wife skis. I encouraged her, I explicitly did NOT teach her, and I was married to her for about 9 years before she decided to seriously try it. My S.O. being a skier was never a requirement. My S.O. accepting that I was a skier was a requirement (ask my ex-wife; on second thought no, still probably a sore spot with her!) When I was single (either time), actually none of the women I dated were skiers.

It was very nice that Lisa and I tried each other's favorite sports. Neither one of us made taking up those sports an issue or requirement. "I've got a road race" or "I'm out for a long run" was always ok with me to hear from her; "I'm going skiing for the weekend" was always ok for her to hear from me.

3) Do we ski together? Not all that much, and again that isn't a "requirement for the relationship." I do like to share a warmup run or two, and meet up for lunch, and at the end of the day. We're at slightly different levels, but I'm only a level or so past where she is now. And as I've mentioned before elsewhere, her fitness level is so much higher than mine that her natural (and trained) athleticism comes very close to compensating for my slightly higher skill level.

But I think stylistically we have different preferences. Although I do like to work on technique, and often will choose an easier trail so that I can work on skills rather than do "survival skiing", I also like to "see what I can do" within reason. So I will challenge myself on a black diamond sometimes (yeah, boring to all the "real" Epic Skiiers out here but I'm just an upper-intermediate/low-advanced at best). If I feel I can do it safely at the limits of my skills. That doesn't mean that I have to do it "pretty" with perfect technique. While my wife tends only want to do trails she can do elegantly and skillfully.

I also like to ski fast (within control, and "fast" is relative to my skills of course). That's actually something which a female ski instructor encouraged me to do.

No, I don't think any of these differences between my wife and I are gender differences. I think it's people differences.

Now by extension, and by other replies, your 'Observation #1' also implies "there are few women skiing" (compared to some implied standard of the "correct" proportion). I think that's not particularly true either, but I'll believe that there are (some amount) fewer women than men skiing. Why?

Some ideas (in no particular priority):

1) Skiiing is a gear-intensive activity. Women in general (no brickbats please) are less of the "gearhead" than men in general. I think this is largely, maybe entirely, due to socialization rather than inherent nature, but nonetheless it's true. Thus a sport which requires the purchase of about $500-1000 USD average equipment, with bewildering ranges of selection, and lots of jargon, maybe is just not attractive to the average women. Compared to the way men are socialized in Western society, to be into "hardware". Now that hardware may be audio equipment, cars, guns, boats, radios, fishing gear, golf clubs, or skis, but typically men are brought up to be into the "stuff", be into talking and reading and arguing about the "stuff". Skiing, and skiing books & magazines, may tend to play to that viewpoint.

Carrying this further, being an active member of a computer-based forum about skiing implies being into yet another set of "gear". Two gateways of traditional socialization (and expense) to overcome.

2. Time constraints. Women are still (again maybe mostly socialization) the primary child care givers, and even in "equal" relationships often the primary "domestic engineer". Perhaps many women self-perceive that they have too many other requirements on their time, while men with typical Western socialization may think that they can drop everything more easily.

3. Financial constraints. I don't think the wage inequality is as much as it is reported to be - at least not in my industry for equal professional levels and levels of personal career development commitment. But I think it's fair to say that the average woman is still making somewhat less than the average man. Skiing is very expensive. Computers are very expensive. Talking on the computer about your skiing becomes even more expensive. More men than women can afford it.

4. Childbearing and Child Care. Women still do 100% of the childbearing! And again, even in the most egalitarian marriages and relationships, there are almost always at least some periods where the woman is doing more of the childrearing than the man involved. Let's ignore nature/nurture here; the reality in today's society puts the mom spending more time with the kid than the dad. Consequently less ski time, less ski-posting time for mothers of young children.

Plus mid-to-late pregnancy and at least early postpartum puts a bit of a damper on ski time.

5. Woman as better consumer. From the same socialization, most women are better consumers, better observers of value than are most men. (Again, not deciding whether it's nature/nurture here.) The ski industry is a crummy value right now, and for a long time: lifts closed due to not enough lifties, $8 crummy hamburgers, overcrowded base lodges, disorganized ski schools, overall poor customer service. Women are trained in this society to distinguish good bargains from bad. In many ways, skiing is a bad bargain from poor companies, even though it's a wonderful sport and activity. Men may be socialized to put up with more garbage in order to get the end result; women may be socialized to reject such a "bad deal" as the typical American ski experience.

Just some ideas. Again, I still don't think there's some special women-specific "problem" that needs to be addressed (other than the good trends of skis, boots, instruction that are correct for women's biomechanics.) In general, skiing and the ski industry needs to make itself more attractive for people in general. Then it probably will be more attractive to women as well as men, and perhaps the numbers will balance out more.
post #52 of 99
Thread Starter 
Mark,

If you want to know, I don't think you are one of those "Joe Skiers." You and LM, Ott and his wife (whose technique is superior to her husband's in that snapshot), Bob Peters and his wife, etc. all are examples of the type of relationship I would advocate for married couples, rather than Mama staying home with the kids and letting hubby pick up a "ski wife." It stands to (my) reason, that a marriage based on common passion is stronger than one where each partner chases after different forms of bliss.

Please don't tell me I am full of it. My experience and my education backs me up. If I may explain the source of my views:

My experience. I heliski, which is a form of skiing that attracts the high end skier, both in skills and credit rating. Every year, who do you suppose I share the whirlybird with? Husbands whose wives are home with the kids. In all the years I have been indulging this passion, I have never met my counterpart: a wife skiing in the Alpha group.

My education. I just finished a Master's degree in Sports Marketing and Management. The last class I took was on the sociology of sport. Check out Sport & Society by Jay Coakley, the textbook in the class, which was written in 2000 and is considered a most authoritative text on HOT TOPICS like racial and gender bias in sports. That's where I learned this "70s Stuff."

Oh, and you might want to pick up "Outsiders in the Clubhouse" by Todd W. Crosset about the LPGA, where the deal about high performing women having to deflect charges of lesbianism is discussed.

Why do you think Brandy Chastain took off her shirt?

Maybe the reason I bring it up is because I know how it is...in ski schools women are pigeonholed as kids instructors...there are very few women compared to men who achieve Level III certification...there are even less who achieve examiner status...there are many men who are head coaches of NCAA women's sports teams but NOT A SINGLE WOMAN who is the head coach of a NCAA men's sports team...

The only reason Title IX is enforced is because a courageous woman or group of women takes a team, a school district, a high school association, or a college athletic program to court. There have been NO CASES where the group whose responsibility it is to oversee Title IX compliance has initiated an action against a program in violation of this law.

Yes. This is some dead moose stinking up the joint.
post #53 of 99
I've got a female friend who heli-skis. More power to her. She just moved to Munich this year - should be having a blast in the Alps. There's another woman I work with who is doing heli-boarding this year.

Scares the c**p out of me - I'm just not good enough to do a bunch of untracked stuff in the backcountry. But am I threatened by it - no. Not unless they insist on dragging me along! Do I want to hear their stories and see the pictures? You bet!

Why don't more women do that kind of skiing? I don't know. As a guy, and a guy who doesn't do that myself, I doubly don't know. But I do know there are no signs at Whistler Heli-Skiing saying "Boys Only".

My point about the 70's isn't to dismiss the real lack of opportunities that used to happen. It's just to say that at a certain point, it's time to move on. If there aren't enough (whatever is "enough") women doing a certain type of snow sport now, it's because they don't WANT to do it. Now maybe a big part of "Want" needs to come from Marketing - thus the excellent ideas in your Marketing thread. We want what we're marketed to want and to believe as attainable (thus that "I really want that X5" problem I'm having right now)

Maybe you, and Picabo, and Kristen Ulmer, and a whole bunch of other women pushing the envelope have to get a lot more visible, so more women will recognize what you're into as desirable and attainable. But I don't believe there are guys truly holding you back still. If there are specific guys around like that, dump them quick!

To quote one of last year's "fun" threads,

"Girls who ski rock".

(don't blame me, I didn't create the title)

Of course in Kristen's case it's closer to "girls who ski rocks" from some of the stuff she hucks off from.

At the same time, we have to accept that different people will make different choices.

Would I rather, in some "political" sense, have my teenage daughter become a kick-ass extreme skier, rather than her choice to become a skilled horsewoman? Yes, I would, both because skiing would be something we share, and because being "horsey" is sometimes considered a stereotypically female activity. But it's her choice. Not like either sport would be saving me any money! What's cool is that she did try skiing, wasn't one bit afraid of it, and due to her strength and endurance from swimming and her balance from riding, took to it quite well. But her real sport is horseback riding, and she's gotten so good at it that she's already working vacations instructing younger kids. So I'm proud of what she has chosen to do, even if it isn't striking blows against the empire.

Let's just all try to find ways to encourage the marketing of skiing to everyone interested, and the many different ways in which it can be enjoyed. That and ways to make it affordable to the average family. If that starts happening (and for reasons you've pointed out elsewhere it needs some work) then I believe we'll get more skiers of both genders. Frankly I'm a lot more worried about the declining number of skiiers overall than about the 40-60 vs. 51-49 gender ratio. If we don't get more people beginning and staying with our sport, we won't have the hills we need staying open to enjoy it.
post #54 of 99
Thread Starter 
Mark,

Great post. You and I are in complete harmony on this issue. It is nothing that skillful marketing can't fix.

You are definitely not Joe Skier.

SCSA: I am with you too on the K2 women who rip. Thank you for the plug.

I'll be on the T-Nine women's all-terrain, Level 9 (get it?) ski when we get another foot of snow. Nice chassis. Great engine.
post #55 of 99
>>>Ott and his wife (whose technique is superior to her husband's in that snapshot),<<<

nolo, you are right in that. She is the pace setter and I'm the adjuster. With having around hundred pounds on her and 25 cm longer skis, I have to turn faster and more then she does, bringing my skis around more in order not to catch up to her.

This is done on the ski level so to the observer the bodies are in perfect synch, but the gist is that the whole job of synchronization is to the person in the back, just ask the tail guy in the powder-8, if it's not perfect it is because he screwed up...

But as far as technique is concerned, neither Ann nor I have trouble with any of them, except bottomless powder which you get in heli skiing, that we have not enough practice in, or opportunity to do.

But hey, in our old days we still are solid.

..Ott
post #56 of 99
For what it's worth, I'd love to see a female, NBA basketball coach.

The gals play the game the way it ought to be played.
post #57 of 99
I ski often with my wife and although we ski mostly blue groomers, she skies fast and with perfect ski school form; tele, of course. But before my friend Emily opened her restaurant, {Em's in SLC} she was my regular ski partner. We skied everything at Alta, she on tele , me alpine, fast, hard and no stopping {except if someone biffs}. I spent several seasons following her into steeper and knarlier terrain until one year she took me up to the Baldy Chutes; She guided me {beware the cliffs} to Main Chute and had me drop in first, perhaps so if I biffed she could collect any gear. Climbing up after a ski really isn't an option, and although theoretically there's enough powder in it to self arrest, falling isn't really an option either. Anyway,it was "interesting" skiing. afterward we coined the phrase "if you're not afraid you're not alive". I made it down ugly and Emily skied it with her usual grace in spite of the 50 degree pitch.The first time she skied it she was so stoked she hiked up and did it again.. The first time I skied it I went to the lodge and had lunch. So, we got women here that really rip.. there are just too few of them. My daughter's three and she has season passes at Alta and P.C. so we'll see...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ December 30, 2001 04:41 PM: Message edited 2 times, by Rubob ]</font>
post #58 of 99
Thread Starter 
Ott,

You both look like you rip. Didn't mean to demean your form. She just has a more natural-looking stance than you do in that shot.

SCSA,

I love women's basketball. Men's basketball is great, but women's basketball is special.

Rubob, your three year old is lucky to have been born into your family. I'd bet most of us posting on epic were introduced to SNOWPLAY by our family of origin.

Am I right?
post #59 of 99
There are lots of ski families out here in Utah{ditto Vermont, NH, Co, I'm sure..}. Ten years ago hardly any women or girls surfed; female's upper body strength was deemed insufficient for all the paddeling involved. In ten years, girls and women's surfing has exploded and it's been a welcome change to the testosterone heavy surf world. Also, girls look better in speedos..Maybe skiing will see a rebirth as well. The difference between a woman amd a guy ski buddy is that, if you crash on a powder day, the woman will wait for you to get back up.
post #60 of 99
nolo, I didn't feel that way at all when you said that, it's nice that you picked out my move to keep from catching up with her.

Neither Ann nor I have any insecurities about our skiing, we just wish we were stronger, younger, blonder and more blue eyed, but alas.....

...Ott [img]smile.gif[/img]
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