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Upright stance boots

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Looking for some information. Here's my quest for a boot. I teach on the weekends in a ski school for children. I need all day comfort for that situation but when I ski on my own I'm looking for performance. Left foot meausures 29.5, right foot measures 30.5

I have a somewhat reduced range of ankle flex. The Tecnica Diablo Magnesium I'm currently skiing have me feeling unbalanced due to forward lean. One of the level III's in the school suggested a more upright boot for better balance (I hadn't told him of my perception about forward lean.)

I ski RX-8's in the Midwest and Legend 8000's on vacations.

I (and my bootfitter) are looking for a good fit in a boot with a more upright stance. We'll be starting with a 29.5 shell and making room for the right foot. Selection in my size (29.5) is always somewhat limited especially in the Midwest.

The Hot Rod Top Fuel is not made large enough for me. Speedmachine 14 is currently on the short list because of it's upright stance but I'm just a little leery of it's cushy width. Same can be said of X-Wave 10. Another bootfitter suggested the Doberman Pro models but I don't see this as an option.

I'm thinking about the Atomic M110 but can't find any information on it's relative forward lean and the closest one is a three hour flight away...

Any suggestions from the experts or firsthand experience with more upright boots ?.

I'd try Jeff's thread but he's busier than he** right now and I want to get moving on this..

Thanks !
post #2 of 28
Look for last year's Salomon Pro Model SC- its a medium width all around that's pretty responsive and upright. Another choice if you don't mind stepping "down" in performance (its all relative, I think most people would be fine in softer boots if they checked their ego and gave them a chance) is the Salomon Ellipse. If you've got a narrow foot, however, neither of these may work particularly well.
post #3 of 28
It is impossible to recommend a boot without giving any details on your feet. That said, you should know that Nordica makes a UK10 HR Top Fuel. This would be equivalent to a 29 Mondo. Sole lenght is 335mm. You must know that this boot runs large so you can easily downsize.
Fit-wise, it is a medium volume fit throughout. It does have a higher than average instep. The liner is neither too thin nor too thick so it should be good for your needs. IMO it is one of the boots that should be on your short list. It has a great upright stance. Bonus: a front spoiler which makes the stance even more upright. It blends high performance with comfort.
post #4 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks Sywsyw, I hoped you'd pipe in. I went over to REI at lunch and tried on the Speedmachine 14 and X-Wave 10 in a 29.5, both have a sole measurement of 335

I could tell the Speedmachine would fit with some work, the X-Wave wasn't gonna happen ever.

I'd love to try the HR Top Fuel before I buy but I can't find them anywhere but mail order (internet)...
post #5 of 28
Do you like the stance of the SM's?

IMO the stance could be the most important factor to consider when you're looking for new boots. Yes the correct size is the most important but what happens if i get the correct size but the boot has the wrong stance for me? The boot won't ski well, even if it is the correct size. The skier will be fighting the stance. This is why i would start looking for boots which have an upright stance. Then i would find the correct size for these boots.

I am glad that you know that you need an upright stance. Start your boot quest from here. Make a list of boots with an upright stance, then try on as many as you can to determine the best fitting boot and the correct size.

If the SMs require bootwork i doubt that the HR will work for you. The SM is definitely wider than the medium volume fit of the HR. It has a thicker liner and, as you noted, it will not help you when you want to be more aggressive.
The biggest problem is the FL. The SM has more FL than the HR. This is not good. I would look at boots with a more upright stance.

The Head RS 96 has an upright stance and it would be my second choice for a freeskiing boot. You still haven't given us any details on your foot shape so it is impossible to recommend something. But i can tell you that the Head is narrower than the HR. They don't make a semi-plug shell. The RS uses the full plug's shell with a softer cuff. Head also make the RS 110. this is a production boot. If this boot has the same geometry as the RD/RS boots, i say fantastic. I heard that they have thick liners, though...

I tried on the Diablos and yes, they have a huge amount of forward lean.
post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 
I wear a 14C in street shoes and a rudimentary measurement of the smaller foot is 285mm by about 100mm. Insteps seem average, my bootfitter wasn't concerned about instep height.

The SM14 work needed was a little stretch in length on the right foot. I had significant contact on the front liner on both but the right (larger foot) would need modification. The left would become fine with a little break-in.

I'm going to Steamboat this weekend and I know there's a good sized Head shop (no pun intended) in Steamboat Springs. I'll check those out, I couldn't find a Hot Rod there.

Any other recommendations of "upright" models would be greatly appreciated. I want to get this right this time...
post #7 of 28
You might also want to consider a pair of Garmont Adrenalins or Endorphins (and just use the DIN soles rather than the AT soles). I've got the Adrenalins, and they offer two skiing modes (with different levels of built-in forward lean); the greater-forward-angle mode is still more upright than most of the alpine boots I've skied. The plastic is softer than most race boots but still seems plenty-supportive to me (although it's been a couple of years since I've spent much time in race boots).
post #8 of 28
May i suggest measuring your foot using this chart? I found it accurate. Do not forget to substract 5mm. Let us know what you find.

My foot is 271mm long (according to the chart it is size 10); 99-100mm wide (D width). I found that the HR 3 sizes smaller than my street shoe size is comfortable. I had 1+ finger behind the heel (Shell fit). So do not be worried about trying on boots 2 or 3 sizes smaller than your street size. It will be the correct size.

According to the chart, a 285mm long foot is a US 11 1/2. How did you come up with a size 14 foot? This is why sometimes i ask people to measure their feet using this chart. I can look at their foot length and width in mm's and then i can recommend a size or two to try on.
What would happen if i recommended a boot size based on your size 14 foot? It would not be accurate. The length in mm's will be accurate.
post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
I've worn 14C dress shoes for 25 years. That's where that came from.

I did the pencil foot silhouette and here's what I got

Left - 295mm long by 104 wide

Right - 305mm long by 100 wide
post #10 of 28
So: size 13 C width and size 14 A width. It makes sense. Sorry! You sized your street shoes for the bigger foot.

I recommed you size your smaller foot and make room for your bigger foot. It won't work if you size for your bigger foot because your smaller foot will be swimming in the boot.

I think that a 29 could work well. You were probably trying on the correct size. This is 2 sizes smaller than your smaller foot street shoe size and 3 sizes smaller for the other foot. I would have liked you to try a 28 but it will probably be too small for the bigger foot. I have 1+ finger behind my heel when i shell fit a 3 size smaller HR. IT would be best if the HR had enough plastic to grind to make room for your longer foot.

I think that your bootfitter knows his stuff but i think that you can get into a narrower boot. Even if you try on a 29 which is 2 sizes smaller for the smaller foot and 3 sizes for the longer foot, the A width of the longer foot can be a problem in a boot like the SM. It can be too wide.
So forget about the production Head boots.

IMO you should try on a Dobermann 130/110 or a HR Top Fuel/Nitrous. These boots will hold your feet much better than the SMs. They run big so it should not be a problem getting into a 29. IMO anything wider than a semi-plug will be too wide. Your feet are 3 and 4 sizes bigger than my feet. This doesn't mean that you must look for wider shells. No! In fact, your feet are narrower than mine. So i do not recommend anything wider than a semi-plug. IMO the Dobermann Pro or HR are probably your best bet. They have an upright stance. They have a medium volume fit(God i hope they will be tight enough for your longer foot!). Your bootfitter can grind or punch the plastic for length for your longer foot. I do not think that the width will be an issue for you.

If you can't find the Dobie/HR, the second choice would be the Head RS. It will be narrower than the Nordicas but they will not be ideal. The boot has a plug lower so it will need some grinding. They run short so sizing can be problematic. I would look at them only if you can't possibly get the Dobie/HR.

IMO nothing else will be ideal. Modifications can be made but it is much better to start with a boot with a stance that closely matches your needs. The Atomic RTs, Lange WCs, Tecnica Diablos, Salomon Falcons have more forward lean.

Do not forget to shell fit.
post #11 of 28
One more thing. If you can, try on a 28. This is 3 sizes smaller for your smaller foot and 4 for the longer one. I will tell you how a 3 and 4 size smaller HR fits my D width foot. A 3 size smaller HR is comfortable. This is how you will feel with your smaller foot. For your longer foot it is 4 sizes smaller. This is the size i got. I have some pressure on the big toe. Nothing dramatic,though... It is very easy for a bootfitter to make room in the toe box. So your big toe will touch the front. Do not worry! The second issue is the width. With my D width foot, the boot is almost unbearable with the stock liner. I have the Nordica lace-up liner and i use it in both boots. For you it will not be a problem. You have an A width foot. You can live with a 28. The only thing to modify would be the toe box.

Do not ignore a 28. Shell fit. If you have almost 2cm behind the heel in a 29 then a 28 would be the correct size.
post #12 of 28
Greg,

You may be able to fine tune a boot that fits great but has a little to much forward lean for you by having a shim installed under the toe of the boot. The toe lug then needs to be ground so that the height of the shim plus toe lug conforms to DIN. I have a setup like this along with some heel lift inside the boot to compensate for less than normal range of motion in the ankle. It enables me to ski with a more upright stance and not struggle with fore and aft balance. The drawback is that I need to use Cat Tracks all the time to prevent damage to the alignment shim.
post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 
Many thanks guys. One of the local shops has the Dobie Pro 130 in a UK 10. I do teach in a kids ski school in Minnesota. Translation: long days that can't be about me and some real cold. Will the Dobies be a mistake in this respect ? I'll report back with the results !
post #14 of 28
The Dobie Performance Fit Liner is neither too thick nor too thin. It should work. If you want a thicker liner you would have to look at the SMs.

I don't know your weight but if the boot is a little stiff it can softened easily. It has dotted lines for cutting the lower. This is not a problem.

Do a shell fit. Ideally, you want less than 1.4cm behind your heel.This is 1 finger fit for me. IF you have over 1.4cm then i would not look at a UK10 (29). I would look at a UK9 (28). Don't be worried about moving down 3 sizes. What matters is how the boot fits. IMO a UK9 would be comfortable for your smaller foot. For the longer foot it will require some grinding to make room for the toes. Width-wise, i do not think that you will have any problems in a UK9 (28).
post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 
I picked up my new custom footbeds and went and tried on the Dobie Pro 130 at lunch today. Geez, what a sweet fit. Approx 1cm shell fit in the UK 10. I think this is gonna be the one. The local shop has a great price on the Dobie, much less than where I found the HRTF...
post #16 of 28
That's great! No doubt, that is the correct size. 1cm shell fit is great (assuming you are referring to the smaller foot).

How did you like the stance of the Dobie?
post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 
Love that more upright stance. At the last minute I changed my mind after talking to an LIII that knows my skiing. He suggested something a touch softer so I went with the HRTF. Unfortunately, I've got to ski this weekend at the Boat on the old boots...
post #18 of 28
10UK = 11US. I don't know how that will fit a 13/14 foot.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by sywsyw View Post
That's great! No doubt, that is the correct size. 1cm shell fit is great (assuming you are referring to the smaller foot)...
1cm of room for the smaller foot would mean the shell fits larger foot with 0cm of space for liner+sock!? World of hurt?
post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmerz View Post
Love that more upright stance. At the last minute I changed my mind after talking to an LIII that knows my skiing. He suggested something a touch softer so I went with the HRTF. Unfortunately, I've got to ski this weekend at the Boat on the old boots...

Congratulations on your purchase! I think that you will like the Direct Drive front spoiler. It makes the stance even more upright. I put the booster strap between the tongue and under the Direct Driver. It works extremely well. I buckle in a way which frees up my ankle.
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post
1cm of room for the smaller foot would mean the shell fits larger foot with 0cm of space for liner+sock!? World of hurt?
This is tiring me out. Good question,though...

Yes he probably has a 0cm shell fit. It is the same fit i have. Without any modifications, the boots are unbearable. With the stock liner, the shell is too small and too narrow for my D width foot. There are 2 solutions: the bootfitter makes room for the toe(s) or you get a very thin race liner. I opted for the second solution. The race liner makes a world of difference. I still have some pressure on my big toe but i can live with it (without grinding/punching). For him it is even easier. He has an A width foot. He can live with the stock liner. I can't. There is a big difference between an A width and a D width foot. He will have the same length issue though. A bootfitter can easily solve this problem.

IMO he did two things right.
1.He selected a boot with an upright stance.
2.He chose the correct size.

Maybe he will tell us more about the fit of his HRTFs. IMO the smaller foot should be comfortable (probably w/o any grinding). The bigger foot should require bootwork to make room for the toes. I do not think that the boot w/ stock liner is too narrow for his A width foot.
post #22 of 28

...??

..greg,
Why did you choose the SM 14, instead of the SM 12, as the most upright of the SMs to try...???
post #23 of 28
Thread Starter 
I had the SM12 on in the same size as the SM14 during this process and I was having instep issues with that boot. The tongue and my instep weren't getting along...
post #24 of 28
One way to handle the difference in foot size is with custom foam liners.

I just got some Doberman 130s and really like them. I have a mid-width forefoot and narrow heel, so after having the little toe punched out, these boots are just right. I wear a 13M street shoe, and the Dobie UK10, the largest they make, is just right for me. As usual, remove the spoiler behind the calf and toss it.


Ken
post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmerz View Post
I had the SM12 on in the same size as the SM14 during this process and I was having instep issues with that boot. The tongue and my instep weren't getting along...
Yep, I hear ya' on that, SMs & big-mtn_insteps can be a close call.
Tecnica's Vento 10 hasn't been mentioned.....has room over instep, pretty wide forefoot, pretty upright.
Atomic's "B" 90/100?....not a lot of forward lean...but no exact knowledge of instep.
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimL View Post
Greg,

You may be able to fine tune a boot that fits great but has a little to much forward lean for you by having a shim installed under the toe of the boot. The toe lug then needs to be ground so that the height of the shim plus toe lug conforms to DIN. I have a setup like this along with some heel lift inside the boot to compensate for less than normal range of motion in the ankle. It enables me to ski with a more upright stance and not struggle with fore and aft balance. The drawback is that I need to use Cat Tracks all the time to prevent damage to the alignment shim.
I was going to pipe in here but I see JimL had pretty much the same thing to say as I! A heel lift will open your ankle joint and the toe lift under the boot will pull your knees back.

b
post #27 of 28

...

congrats on the new family member greg!
post #28 of 28
Thread Starter 
The fit part is easy. Here's the big challenge. I have two pairs of boots at home already. One I use, one I don't. How am I gonna get these into the house without running into a buzzsaw :
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