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MA Request Bumps

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok so really I felt shitty during this bump run I know I had better runs this day but bad is good for MA cause that what I still revert back to it.

Just an FYI the skis I am on 183 Gotamas according to many on here if you ski bumps on these skis you might self-com-bust.

I am interested in skiing better period from what ever school of thougt you come from PSIA, CSIA, PMTS, hot bump skier, freeriders, whatever your advice is valued. With that said I am thinking about PSIA L3 this year and the question I allways ask is this to "PSIA L3 Standards" So have at it MA masters of barking bears.

post #2 of 25
I am going to have to MA you dude. My extensive knowledge of skiing cine photography will speak for its self. I appreciate your strong post sticking it to the haters who have got you down. Its a dramatic angle. However I question your on screen demeanor. The movie doesn't really deliver the same level of angst. I expected some in your face trash talk maybe stick your tongue out as you pass camera would have said "i'm bad and I know it" but no.... No.... You chose to let your skiing speak for its self. The "make up for it" line only confuses. Your not a patient learner trying to glean flakes of knowledge are you? Or are you? I sense much conflict in you, oh not quite ready to be the next hard boiled ski bad boy.

Solid skiing.
post #3 of 25
I represent out of continent outlaw european skiing and Im not going to MA you from any ski school assosiation angle. I learned to ski bumps by taking basic skiing skills and applying them to bumps and then practise a lot.

You have good rhythm in the top part of the video. As you pass the cameraman you lose your rhythm due to uneven bumps or something but you try to pick up your rhythm and that is a good thing. In bumps you should not give up easy. If you make a misstake its all about the recovery and the effort you put in. You should be pushing your limits. The way you skidd your skis sideways is also a good sign as is your effort to keep your feet together. Also the fact that you manage to stay in the track for the top part of the video deserves to be honoured because if you look at professional mogul skiing you need to stay in that track moving down in the fall line no matter what. You are facing down the hill with your upper body wich is also correct. Lots of good stuff here.

If you want to improve I would suggest the following. Try to absorb the moguls better with your leggs. I dont see enough flexing and extending. You also need to be able to use the mogul rebound better for initiating your turn and for unweighting. If you look at your second turn right you can se that you are moving your body up in order to unweight your skis just prior to running into a bump which doesent really happen. This is wrong. You need to crash into the bump and let the bump lift you up but absorb the upward motion with your leggs at the same time. Now you are sort of drifting into the bumps sideways and you try to rush the transition. This results in you becomming late as you progress and your speed increases. I would suggest you take a different line, one that puts your skis more in the fall line in the spot where you are skidding down the downhill side of a bump. Then insted of slamming into the next bump sideways with a hard flat impact of the ski bases (the way FIS skiers do, firing of an automatic gun sound) you would then hit the hill side of the next bump with the snow pile diagonally with your tipps first. If the track is deap and if the chunks of snow are hard and icy forget what I just said but if the run is softer you stay better in controll. I use a pre turn technique that works great and puts less strain on my body. Check out my bump lesson video for ref.
post #4 of 25
Way way more A&E, you probably feel like you're using a lot already but as the video shows there's much more available. But actually pretty good skiing. Drop the online cop routine and you may really have something.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
thanks so far i agree with tdk6 alot except when I ski bumps I want to be in the fall line or at least doing meduim radius turns boucing of the tops. I want to be smooth, and above all I want the least impact on my knee possiable. I am 23 I want to be skiing till I am 100 I will ski the zipperline but I will never do so in a way I think will endanger my health.

yeah you can see on some bumps I used alot more than other for A & E.
post #6 of 25
You look smooth, the trail doesn't look too steep, good to work on technique. You are 23 and you will have many years of bumps in those knees, don't be a wuss, start attacking them .

Pole plants. How long are your poles? It looks like you are flicking your wrists laterally. Your hands look "open". Plant your pole as if you were shifting gears in your car. Imagine your initial plant in "2nd Gear" and you then sift it to "3rd gear". Your hands/arms also look a bit wide.

There are two types of pole plants I use. 1. on the upper face of the bump. I will use this if I wand to decellerate and 2. on the top on the bump if I want accelerate. It looks like in these bumps, you are planting on the upper face, this will keep your speed down and in check, if you want to ski them fast get more agressive with your plants.

All of this said, is pure personal preference. If I skied that line 3 times, I could ski it three different ways. No one way is right or wrong. If you are happy with your style and form down that (and you should be), build on it. But I think you might find it limiting if/when you get into steeper/icier bumps.
post #7 of 25
Your turns are happening for the most part on unweighted skis, so your speed control is all because of impact. Try being more patient with your extension as you slow down your feet by nudging them back under your hips as you extend. This will keep the skis working down into the trough. Try to look down into the trough as you extend and before your skis get there. Let your hips move down the hill with more consistent speed, by working the feet and legs. You can almost stop your feet as you flex your legs, allowing your body to keep moving forward. Save the second half of the turn for the bump that you are running up onto (don't aim for the trough, aim beside or above the trough), as opposed of turning and then sliding into the bump with sideways skis. Think progressive "J" turn, with the second half of the turn finishing strong as you flex to absorb.

As we say in psia, play with DIRT, the duration, intensity, rate, and "TIMING".
post #8 of 25
A lot of skidding going on for that type of bump skiing. I'd like to suggest that you slow it down a bit and try to finish your turns more, with some form of carving included in each turn.

The second thing that I notice, something that has helped me, is your pole plant. As you pass the camera man you can see the swinging motion of you pole plant. Above, in the bumps, you can see how wide your pole plant is especially on the left side. I think you could firm your pole plant up and keep them more in front. Try planting with a bit of an inward motion. In general, you could firm it all up and be more strict to the fall line.

You are in the fall line and you understand bump skiing. I think you look good.

BTW, I have no MA qualifications.
post #9 of 25
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
BTW, I have no MA qualifications.
But you can ski bumps with the best of them.
post #10 of 25
Don't listen to Phil, he's a hack!

If I could do bumps I'd give you some advice. Instead I'll say.....I'm so jelous. Hope you're having fun. You deserve it!
post #11 of 25
One more thing: There has been plenty of discussion on "skiing the slow line fast". Then there has been Dan Depro and his book on competitive bump skiing applied to rec. skiers.

As I see it, your are skiing the slow line fast. So my suggestions are directed toward that style, again as a layman. That's why I am talking about some carving in each turn, generally speaking. This style is graceful and precise. It's worth perfecting.

Dan DePro's book is full of great tips on bump skiing. It is more about the zipper line. Good bump skiing in the zipper line does not have to shorten your life: You can us both techniques.

So Dan DePro's book and the Thread on Back Pedalling: really good stuff.
post #12 of 25
I'm guessing that you have some excellent training available to you at snowbird. Given the strength of your skiing in these bumps and your athleticism, you should be able to make the changes to your off piste skiing for level III. don't neglect the demo and task parts of your skiing either.

In our division a level III should be able to make medium radius turns in the bumps, as well as being able to make turns staying oriented in the fall line. L III skiing in the bumps should demonstrate effective movements with the skier skiing the bumps and not the bumps skiing the skier, if you know what I mean.

Go back to this run sometime and turn around every three bumps instead of every bump, and pay attention to what you do to make this happen as smoothly as possible.
post #13 of 25
Overall, pretty good. Try to keep your hands a little more forward and use your legs more in absorption and extension. You started with a good turn rhythm but sort of got behind by about your fourth turn or so, partly because you didn't absorb the impact enough and you got tossed a little coming off the top. However, you recovered and got back into your line fairly well. Keep the head up looking down your chosen line with your next 4 turns picked out. That should help you from getting behind along with better absorption. Try to get a little quicker in transition so that you use the front of the bump, with absorption, for speed control. While working the legs, keep the upper body as still as possible, again with the hands a little more in front and with your shoulders square to the horizon and your head up.

post #14 of 25
A&E timing. If the absorption and extension are late the skis lose contact with the snow.
post #15 of 25
You turn better to the left (right leg) then to the right. As others have said attack a little more...to paraphrase goldmember get more forward and more dynamic with your arms and extend more into the troughs (really just be more agressive).

Nice skiing and a good showing at those slow speeds on gots.
post #16 of 25
Keep in mind that if your ski tips aren't in contact with the snow, you have little or no control. Pull your feet strongly back under your hips as you pass the crest of the bump so you are never sitting back on your heels. Pull your feet back so your tips remain in contact with the snow going down the face (back, same thing) of the bumps.

Pre-absorb the bump. Pull your feet & knees up before you arrive at the bump. Actually, for many of us this will result in absorbing the bump at just the right time. With your feet pulled up (and back, way back) at the crest, extend them to full length as you go down the face (back) of the bump, then pre-absorb for the next crest.

Use a strong stabilizing pole plant.

Don't be so upright with your upper body. Use more angulation (bend sideways at the waist away from the hill) and counter (turn inner hip, shoulder & arm the opposite direction of the turn) to give you more ability to get the skis on edge.

post #17 of 25
Is carbonissimo taping that? It sounds like his voice.
post #18 of 25
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
Keep in mind that if your ski tips aren't in contact with the snow, you have little or no control. Pull your feet strongly back under your hips as you pass the crest of the bump so you are never sitting back on your heels. Pull your feet back so your tips remain in contact with the snow going down the face (back, same thing) of the bumps.

Don't be so upright with your upper body.

I agree with part one. Draw feet back to get skis in contact with snow.

Re: upright body, I like to see a tall skier in the bumps. Good posture, good alignment, so I disagree with part two.
post #19 of 25
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post
I agree with part one. Draw feet back to get skis in contact with snow.

Re: upright body, I like to see a tall skier in the bumps. Good posture, good alignment, so I disagree with part two.
I'm with you, Paul. I like good flex in the legs when in a neutral position with a fair amount of tongue pressure. That helps address the A&E issue by not getting in a locked-out position with the knees when extended. I don't think of it so much as pulling the feet back under the hips but more as keeping pressure on the tongues. With that said, bending at the waist isn't desirable. I look for a more erect upper body with the torso weight centered over the hips or just slightly ahead of the hips, hands more in front at about the position you would be in if you were carrying a tray of something, and a quiet body above the waist. Keeping the hands in front does a lot for keeping the torso weight from falling back causing the skier to go into the backseat. I try to think of keeping the shoulders square to the horizon and head up, looking for the next several turns in my line. If you're bent over at the waist, the squaring of the shoulders and head position tend to suffer plus you can get too much weight over the tips and oversteer the turns and/or go over the bars if you hit into a bump too squarely. Ideally, the weight should be fairly centered with a little bias to the tips while never going backseat.
post #20 of 25
Softsnow guy says one thing that I agree with most. You need to use your tips more and keep them in the fall line longer. Allowing your skis to get so far across the fall line will get you in trouble in deeper snow and deeper troughs. It almost looks like you're trying to control your speed too much by getting your skis so far sideways.Hand position is a little too high and back. Allowing your hands to get back will get you in the backseat. All in all though, it looks pretty darm good for fat ski bump skiing.

I also agree that standing tall in moguls is another key to staying out of the backseat. Crouching down in moguls will certainly throw you back as soon as your knees come up. By being tall when your knees come up as you crest the bump your body position allows you to absorb and then the balance to extend your skis back down the front or side to keep tip contact with the snow. Starting a mogul run crouched down will put you to runnaway truckin in a hurry.
post #21 of 25
Interesting discussion.

Be careful with the concept about pulling your feet back underneath you as Ken suggested. There is an important time for this, which is as you crest the bump. HOWEVER, its also important as you go down the back side of the bump to reach down with your toes and push those legs down and forward as much as possible, to the point that as you reach the flat spot it may seem like your feet are now in front of your CM rather than underneath it. As you come down into the flat space you will begin to compress, which will move your COM forward and that is when you then start to pull your feet back again.

Note that if you hold your feet too far back as you go down the backside, when you hit the next flat space if your feet are still underneath your butt, you may very likely feel catapulted over the handlebars.

Mark Ellling's books has some great coverage of this concept. Check it out.

If you watch WC mogul guys, their feet are indeed moving back under the butt and back out forward again. But the interesting thing is that their hip is nearly always pretty far back in relation to their knees, feet and slope angle.

When you're skiing down a steep non-mogul slope, you want to maintain a centered stance relative to the slope, which usually means your body is tipped foward, somewhat 90 degress to the angle of the slope. However, in bumps its a different situation because each bump is adding and taking away gigantic amounts of force as your crest each one. If you were leaning out 90 degrees to the slope angle you'd quite possibly be vaulted over the handle bars when you hit a bump, and if you pull your feet under your butt too fast and too soon, then your COM will be too far forward and give you similar results, not to mention a limited range of absorption motion in your lower body.

I agree with others about heading down the fallline, however if you were in a ski instructor course, they generally don't want to see that, they want to see you complete turns. Also, you have some fatty skis on, which aren't helping you. They make every single edge change more laborious and slow. That makes zipperline bump skiing less of an option.

Some general tips

- Make sure you're looking 2 bumps ahead, not the bump in front of you. 3 bumps ahead even better. Always scanning up there. When you do that its like being Neo in the Matrix and all of a sudden everything slows down and the bumps somehow seem to be wider apart and easier to turn around. This point should not be underestimated. Trust me. It takes a bit to get used to this, but huge payoffs.

- Don't miss any pole plants, even if you just set the pole basket down on the backside of the bump. Try to get the pole plant as far down the backside of the bump as you can. NOT on the flat space on top.

- I saw you trying to extend down the back of each bump. GOOD JOB. That was probably freezing up some of your active flexion to absorb. So just keep working on that. Extend as actively as possible...keep focusing on that. But also flex as much as possible as you crest each bump. Don't just think about absorb absorb absorb, nor about extend, extend, extend. Think Absorb-extend-absorb-extend and do them both very actively. A huge part of success in the bumps is getting a rythmn going and you are actively extending and absorbing in a coordinated way with each turn. Personally, I don't think you will have to worry so much about whether you're pulling your feet back under your butt or not. (not now). Just stay what feels like center balanced and focus on the other tasks. Later on if you have problems falling into the back seat that could be addressed.

Every time you extend, drive your pelvis forward and the tips of your toes down the back of the bump. Every time you absorb pull your knees to your chest as you reach for your pole plant and also think about dorsiflexing your ankle about that time. Tip and engage your edges as you extend down the backside of the bump. There is a huge area of snow on the backside of that bump which you don't actually see from above it. Your goal is to carve the top part of every turn on that area of snow (not on the flat place on top of the bump). Actually this area of snow I'm talking about is to be more precise around the OUTSIDE and DOWNHILL side of the bump in relation to where you are as you approach it.

Don't just depart the top of one bump with your vision set on the next flat spot. Hopefully your vision is 2 bumps ahead anyway and this is one reason why. The instant you pass the crest of the bump you should be engaging your edges to scarve around the outside/backside of that bump so that you will ideally come upon the next flat spot rather softly instead of free falling down to it in a gigantic heap of flesh and gortex.

The trick is to do that without getting all frozen legged trying to think about all this stuff. The active extension/flexion is totally a huge key. If you did nothing else but focus on that a while I think it would do you well.
post #22 of 25
I would add one thing to bts683's post: There is a lot to think about. Don't try to think about it all. Make a plan and work on one or two things for awhile until you're comfortable then work on something else. It's like a golfswing though; if you have more than one swing thought, you're not going to hit the ball well. Too much conscious thought at skiing speeds will only throw off the timing and screw you up. I would think about a triggering mechanism such as keeping hands in front at all times. That will trigger a bunch of other things that are generally good for you like weight forward slightly, shoulders square to the horizon, etc. Hands forward and head up looking 2, 3, or 4 turns out is about all I focus on. Everything else tends to fall into place.
post #23 of 25
BushwacherinPA you seem to have it all but your timing is off. Instead of trying to control speed in the top half of the turn you are trying to control speed in the second half of the turn.

You show a quick pivot of the skis into the fall line, then big acceleration and a quick edge set at the turn finish. Your turn shape is more like a comma than a circle because the the top half of the turn is over in a flash. The top half of the turn is where you have control over turn shape and speed. Once the skis are in the fall line, the mogul dictates more than you.

Slow down the turn initiation and guide your skis into a round smooth short turn instead of a quick pivot. The top half of a mogul turn should be twice as long as the bottom half of the turn. Slow line fast instead of fast line slow.
post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 
Ok beside the you should be carving more comment which i totally disagree with ESPECIALLY on those skis. When I think about carving I think about an engaged ski and in the bumps that is not going to fly. When I think about a flat pivoty ski I cna ski nearly any bump run I want.

I want to ski bumps better and more efficient if that means quick than so be it. I would be happy if it happen but I never really want to be a bump specific skier. My thing is more high speed charger from the tram...

Looking back on this video I havent skied off trail that good in couple days the snow here is really really thick.

There is alot of good food for thought here. and giving me some stuff to work with next time out.

The last thing I want to thank carbonnissmo for filming and sending me the tape and also would want to say that this indeed was a bad run for me.... as other who I have been skiing with could probably comment.

Also yes my new sig is poking fun at myself
post #25 of 25
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
Ok beside the you should be carving more comment which i totally disagree with ESPECIALLY on those skis. When I think about carving I think about an engaged ski and in the bumps that is not going to fly. When I think about a flat pivoty ski I cna ski nearly any bump run I want.

I want to ski bumps better and more efficient if that means quick than so be it. I would be happy if it happen but I never really want to be a bump specific skier. My thing is more high speed charger from the tram...

So the vid shows you skiing the slow line fast, in theory. IMHO there should be some carving in each turn. The smear can still be used and is used by most.

You mention quick and that to me says zipper line and for that I would first off, go to Dan DiPro's book. As I recall he talks about a small amount of carving even in that style.

I think that the best approach is to slow it down and be precise. Using both styles is what I have found to be most enjoyable.

Some great suggestions here. Post another vid so we can see you get better. Soft bumps and a motivated skier=improvement.
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