EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Babies in backpacks on the slopes
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Babies in backpacks on the slopes - Page 3

post #61 of 88
While I am deeply suspicious of the legitimacy of the original query... I do have an opinion.

Babies should NOT be carried in backpacks while skiing because of the danger of brain damage caused by the rapid acceleration/deceleration accompanying a fall.

People who get in over their head, including children, should take off their skis, and walk down to an easier section of the slope, then resume skiing where it's safe.

Ski boots are actually quite good for walking down; the hardness of the heel and weight of the boot make it relatively easy to get a good foothold. Not as good as crampons, but better than hiking boots.

I took one of these strolls with a concussion and broken collar bone, years ago, at Killingon.
post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by Bonni:
Why is no one thinking about how the BABY handles this?

I have a picture of me when I was almost 4 in an inner tube at the lake. My aunt is standing in the water next to me, water up to her knees. I remember that day Very Well. I was PETRIFIED that I would fall out of the tube and drown. [/i]
When I was 3, my dad put me in a child seat on the back of his bicycle and rode me up to the candy store.

I was PETRIFIED on that bicycle. Today I can't even look at a Chunky Bar, or ride in the back of a rickshaw without having a major panic attack.

Anybody who has ever put their child in a bicycle seat, had better think twice about that as well.

I just hope that none of you holier-than-thou types have got a child seat on the back of your bikes. If you do, you care to explain what it's doing there? Hmmm...? :
post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by TheIceMan:

People who get in over their head, including children, should take off their skis, and walk down to an easier section of the slope, then resume skiing where it's safe.

Ski boots are actually quite good for walking down; the hardness of the heel and weight of the boot make it relatively easy to get a good foothold. Not as good as crampons, but better than hiking boots.

I took one of these strolls with a concussion and broken collar bone, years ago, at Killingon.
This is how I've seen a bunch of people start very unpleasant slides. Once saw someone attempt this on Ovation at Killington and they went at least 400 vertical feet in a slide of death. Can't understand the thinking that plastic ski boots can be better than metal-edged skis for getting down something.
post #64 of 88
I'm afraid of rickshaws too.

How many kids do YOU have, Carvemeister?
post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by Bonni:
I'm afraid of rickshaws too.

How many kids do YOU have, Carvemeister?
2 boys. 16 & 13yrs. I can barely keep up with them now. They do more stupid things on their own than I could ever think up, no longer fit on the back of my bike though. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
post #66 of 88
Thread Starter 
Originally posted by carvemeister
Quote:
Go ahead...I can take it.
Probably not.
post #67 of 88
Well, allright, Carvemeister, then you know all about tossing their little asses out to the wolves and letting them fend.

Good.

PS. I'm not holier than thou, a tree hugger type, or even a Fan of Children. I just have experiences being one and being a Mom. Sue me for my opinion if it differs from yours. Somehow, I like that idea.
post #68 of 88
Bonni - I was put into open sea water at the ripe age of 14 months (With flotation- I am told and see pictures). I know I would spend 200+ days/year in the water before the the age of 10 with no fear,dread, or anxiety, rather the reverse (with the marked (literally!) exception of jellyfish). I cannot speak to ski fears, bike fears, or other sports fears because I wasn't exposed to any of it until after the age of 10.

Permit me to suggest, however, that children learn by being exposed to the unknown, that at those ages it is mostly all unknown, and that remanent fear is related to the manner of exposure as well as, even rather, than the fact of it.

I cannot give my kids all that I was given: the opportunities just aren't there.

Pete Z.- Yep. My spectacular one of these was at Copper, coming down from Union Peak. Icy as all get-out- we were hours behind the sun. My companion was behind me. I (peccavi!) got into a bump rhythm and didn't notice she had stopped and taken her skis off. I was about 50' from the runout to the lift when I (barely!) saw her sliding on her belly until she fetched up on a particularly large-sized bump.
No one was on the lift and I didn't have radios, so of course I kick-stepped my way up to the top third, each boot tip backed up with two pole tips because they would slide otherwise. (It took a while for me not to lose MY skis). Well, it took me even longer to get to her but she couldn't stand up without sliding both of us out. The best plan was a lateral belly slide using my ski pole in self-arrest towards the one tree way down and skier-right. We managed it, and got both our skis back on, but she was so mad at me (!!!!!?!?) and I was so exhausted that I got some Atlas Mountain Trackers for the pack and held off on the ring for a few days.
post #69 of 88
Holy crap! It's a good thing my Dad's long gone, or the safety Nazis would probably burn him alive for his "crimes." Personally, I don't regret or resent one second of the "abuse" meted out to me as a child. I think the best thing you can possibly do for a child is to experience the joy of living with her or him early on. Nothing tickles me more than seeing people starting kids out early.

Way to go UPRacer!

[ January 10, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: EricW ]
post #70 of 88
Point taken, and a good argument for it. I have to agree with both of you on that. The age of 4 is too late.

Still, would you bat an eye at a rock climber with a baby, or a snowmobiler crossing a frozen lake with Junior in tow? (we just had one go through the ice up here). I'm reluctant to agree, and since the question was raised to get OPINIONS, that just happens to be mine.
post #71 of 88
post #72 of 88
I will not go on a ride a Cedar Point like Millennium Force or Top Thrill Dragster. Far too dangerous. No thanks, I will stick with safer stuff like back country skiing and white water kayaking.

[ January 11, 2004, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Pierre ]
post #73 of 88
Thread Starter 
The thread is dead......UP racer seems to have found the perfect way to end it. It would have been nice to get 100 votes in, just as a round #. At this point the packers have the majority on question one..... then again, we elected a president this way . We will still always disagree...I back packed my two kids, but even as an expert skier, I still wouldn't consider packing on the slopes. To end this on a humorous note I just wanted to say that I re-read most of the comments, for better or for worse, and one caught my eye........

Quote:
originally posted by gonzostrike
it's not like he said he goes out to the shed, drinks a few flasks full of booze, then lights himself on fire before hoisting the child into a papoose full of diseased vermin.
Like whoooa.....where did this guy come from?
post #74 of 88
Am I a parent? Not exactly....

Very cute kid.

And the person these things happen to usually say things like "I don't fall. I'm a GREAT skier!" I laugh when people tell me they don't fall, never been hit by an out of control person, never slipped on ice, never caught an edge, etc. etc. etc. I know I have and I would venture to say that I am at least as good as the average person that posts here. All it takes is one slip, and then you have baby taking a fall from 5+ feet with a 100+ lb guy landing on her. I will make no comparisons to other things people do with or to their children. It is what it is. Anybody that exposes their kid to that does not meet my definition of smart.

I don't believe in treating kids like milk fed veal, nor do I believe in telling people who to raise their kids.

I bet a person who does this thinks that they are doing a great thing with their kids. I doubt that the beat their kids and probably treat them to thi finer things in life. It does not make it right to subject an infant to uneccessary danger.

I can't believe that I am the only person that understands it. Its not a personal attack on anyone. I don't know anyone here. We only post our opinions.
post #75 of 88
[quote]Originally posted by xrisi421:
Quote:
How can you be "absolutely" positive that you and your daughter was safe in this situation…godforbid you could get into a car accident and your baby could get hurt; but, it's unrealistic to not ever take your baby in a car as cars are a necessary part of life for many people…
This seems to sum up the usual assumptions: that skiing with a child in a backpack is inherently unsafe and that driving a child in a car is a reasonable and necessary risk. This argument as played out through out this thread also seems to discount the child backpacking risk while hiking or doing other “less dangerous” activities.

I have never read about a child being injured in a backpack while skiing. It is up to the chicken littles in this argument (the party raising the argument) to make some reasonable affirmative show of proof that there is a real and actual danger and that that danger is inherent and unreasonable. Until I have some show of actual danger this argument is really little more than the usual “I am afraid so you can’t do it” type. This is Americana at its worst, paternalistic, pedantic, and superior.

I loved CAPBOY and his comments, strident, pure, pedantic, superior, basically the gamut of sour chest thumping Americana. Christ, just shoot me!

I can hear the pending cry, for justice for kids in backpacks everywhere! Pillory the backpacker, save the child, take the kids away; it is too dangerous, even if just walking!! You could fall and SCARE the kid. OH MY GAWD.

I didn’t get out to my local crack dealer today (support America, buy local!) but I hope this thread is better stoned on crack, because it is pretty pathetic sober.

Mark
post #76 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by Maddog1959:
...It is up to the chicken littles in this argument (the party raising the argument) to make some reasonable affirmative show of proof that there is a real and actual danger and that that danger is inherent and unreasonable...
Are you just dense? Or another closet child abuser?
The proof HAS been given.

...What If?

...Holy crap, What If?

If it's you're not smart enough to understand that, well then you're obviously part of the problem.

Sorry, but somebody had to tell you, before you hurt somebody.
Got kids? Not thinking about getting a dog are you?
I've seen them bite on T.V. :
post #77 of 88
Wow, I cant believe this thread is up to 4 pages.

Err, isn't this America, the land where freedom of choice is still alive?

Personally, if I had a child, I'd enjoy a little backpack skiing, as I'm sure the child would also. But, even though I'm a pretty good skier, i still get in trouble, so would likely take it mighty easy with a kid on board.

15 or so yrs ago, I did a brief photo shoot of a friend, doing something that may have never been done. He had his 2 yr old daughter on his back.....AND his 6 month old on his chest!!!! One pick even had a bit of air under his skis. We were skiing Memorial Forest at Crystal, a 30 degree gladed slope, and in less than ideal conditions. Dale is one of the very best skiers ever, so the risk was minimal. Heck, the guy had a pair of Volkl Renntiger R 210's----mounted with tele binders!! (He was on trad DH gear that day though, phew!) They weren't great shots, but I could probably dig one up, digitize and post it.....
post #78 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by Carvemeister:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Maddog1959:
...It is up to the chicken littles in this argument (the party raising the argument) to make some reasonable affirmative show of proof that there is a real and actual danger and that that danger is inherent and unreasonable...
Are you just dense? Or another closet child abuser?
The proof HAS been given.

...What If?

...Holy crap, What If?

If it's you're not smart enough to understand that, well then you're obviously part of the problem.

Sorry, but somebody had to tell you, before you hurt somebody.
Got kids? Not thinking about getting a dog are you?
I've seen them bite on T.V. :
</font>[/quote]As usual the densitometer is off the scale with the old carvemeister. So, just because placing a child in a backpack means there is a potential for additional injury (bear with me but I suspect that is due to the fact that the child is now elevated above the usual height above planet Earth that the child occupies) therefore the child is endangered and child abuse has occurred. So, backpacking a child or even holding a child could result in the child falling from an unusual height and resulting in serious head injury or a real bad “scare”. Sounds to me like the old Carvemeister is advocating for a ban on carrying children, backpacking children or taking any activity which would or even could result in a child being in any “additional” danger (presumably additional is based on the average danger all children in Carvemeisterland are subject to on a daily basis).

Would you run that proof by me again? What is it? Is it your belief that there is additional, inherent danger from the action of skiing a child in a backpack? Is it the potential that the skier could fall? Is it the potential that the skier could be hit by another skier/boarder? What is it?

Sorry Carve, I don’t see that there is all that much additional danger to the child from being backpacked while skiing. Yes, the skier could fall. And, so could Mom if she has the kid in a backpack walking out to the mailbox. Frankly, a fall on the way to the mailbox with all the surrounding concrete would be more dangerous than a fall while Dad is undertaking a slow speed ski run. While carrying your child in your arms (assuming you have a child or have ever carried a child) you could faint from syncope, or collapse from a heart attack, or spontaneous aneurysm, and drop the child causing serious injury or death. Are you advocating that carrying children is child abuse? Or do you believe the risk of these events is so low as to be acceptable? Please provide something which would convince me that skiing a child in a backpack is actually dangerous not just presumably dangerous because you have weak skiing skills and a vivid imagination, and that the danger is sufficiently great to require proscribing the activity.

I remember a while back that the chicken littles of the world were harping that raising the speed limit on the nations highways would result in untold additional deaths, carnage, maimings and the like. Unfortunately for them, when the states increased the speed limits from 55 to a higher number the prophesied carnage didn’t materialize. In most locations, the per mile death and injury rate declined, inferential logic should not be the sole route used to determine whether an activity is sufficiently dangerous to be proscribed.

Its good to know that people like Carvemeister are around waiting to limit your freedom and responsibility. You want to take your 15 year old into the backcountry? Don’t worry; old Carve will be there to accuse you of child abuse. You let your kid ski an 800’ vertical. 50-degree technical face with a rock band in the middle - you abuser, heathen, it’s leg irons for you. You want to take the 3 year old on the back of the Mt. Bike for a single track run; it’s thumbscrews and the rack for you. Teaching your 2 year old to ski? No way, it’s dangerous and old Carve is going to call the Children’s Protection Division on you. But, heaven forbid if you should strap your young one into your Corvair so you can head down to the latte factory for a super fudge double espresso latte sugar bomb and you get T-boned in the intersection, well that was an auto trip and we all know the auto is an invention of NECESSITY, not frivolity.

While I have never skied with a child in a backpack, I have biked, and backpacked my children for endless miles and I have skied with fanny packs, and backpacks of light to heavy weights. The idea of falling with a child in a backpack is foreign to me. The falls I have are on very steep slopes with highly varied snow condition where I plink a tree with my shoulder or get slammed around by an unseen tree root or rock band. Oddly though, I never see kids in backpacks on these runs, only on the double green circle runs where the snow is all groomed and smooth like a baby’s butt. I can’t remember the last time I fell on a green groomer while paying attention to my skiing, and without the assistance of a friend or relative. As for being knocked down by a skier/boarder, I do remember being hit by a boarder two years ago. He bounced off me and was dazed for a bit but it did not knock me down, hell it didn’t even cause me to sway. When he stopped drooling and looked reasonable coherent I chew his ass a bit and sent him packing. Skiing in the Northwest I would be more concerned that the mountain would erupt than I would that my child would be hurt in the backpack. Ohhhhhh, there’s another one for the old Carve, northwest mountains erupt so no child should be allowed near those mountains, that would be child abuse after all. Drivel, but unadulterated drivel!

Mark
post #79 of 88
Maddog, I think one of us misread the post. I took it to mean that carvemeister was saying that there is NO proof offered only the "what ifs". That he was poking fun at the doom sayers. Carvemeister?
post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by Kima:
Maddog, I think one of us misread the post. I took it to mean that carvemeister was saying that there is NO proof offered only the "what ifs". That he was poking fun at the doom sayers. Carvemeister?
Kima

That's how I read this as well.
post #81 of 88
After reading Carvemeisters prior posts I have to agree. I kinda took the Moe route smacking Curley (carvemeister) for doing the right thing. Sorry, but no way was I actually gonna read every post in this drivel fest. I guess it was CAPBOY's attitude that originally got me involved.

Delete my references to Carvemeister but there is no change to the basic argument.

Mark
post #82 of 88
I can't believe I am responding to this again. I am not trying to dump on UP Racer for skiing with his kid in a backpack. I am just saying I wouldn't do it. I am pretty confident in my abilities as a skier, but it was just a chance I didn't want to take. Yes my daughter could have been hurt in a car, but it seemed that transporting her in a car was less of an option than skiing with her at that age. Most of my reluctance for skiing with her in backpack was that my wife does not view skiing quite the way I do and probably would have killed me if I had landed on the kid no matter whose fault it was.
I'm also not sure that skiing would have been fun for her at a fairly early age. It seemed that the age I started her (4yrs) was about right for her. Different strokes.
post #83 of 88
Quote:
Originally posted by Maddog1959:
After reading Carvemeisters prior posts I have to agree. I kinda took the Moe route smacking Curley (carvemeister) for doing the right thing...
Bada Bing...
Which Instant Graemlins does this call for??
Think I'll go with these: [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #84 of 88
Quite a few years ago I was a lifty who had a situation where the dad tried to take his baby out on the mountain in a pack. Dad was an expert skier & well respected and known at this particular mountain but my common sense (and the rules of the resort) said no, you may not ride up any lift. He was angry and finally I sent him to my boss in the Lift Dept. to talk about it. He backed me up and told him the same thing. While I'm not a parent still, common sense tells you that anything could go wrong despite your ability! Equipment failure, a side swipe, the baby's weight shifting, etc. Numerous things could happen so why risk harming a new born's life? I can understand a parent wanting to introduce their child to something so grand as skiing but you must be more realistic! I could never forgive myself if that child were harmed (if I were the parent or just the lifty )

P.S. BTW, a week later the
dad stopped by to say thanks to me!
I knew I did the right thing.
post #85 of 88
Thread Starter 
originally posted by snowdog5150 posted January 14, 2004 03:01 PM *** ** * ** * * ** **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite a few years ago I was a lifty who had a situation where the dad tried to take his baby out on the mountain in a pack. Dad was an expert skier & well respected and known at this particular mountain but my common sense (and the rules of the resort) said no, you may not ride up any lift. He was angry and finally I sent him to my boss in the Lift Dept. to talk about it. He backed me up and told him the same thing. While I'm not a parent still, common sense tells you that anything could go wrong despite your ability! Equipment failure, a side swipe, the baby's weight shifting, etc. Numerous things could happen so why risk harming a new born's life? I can understand a parent wanting to introduce their child to something so grand as skiing but you must be more realistic! I could never forgive myself if that child were harmed (if I were the parent or just the lifty )
P.S. BTW, a week later the
dad stopped by to say thanks to me!
I knew I did the right thing.




[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #86 of 88
Thread Starter 
originally posted by snowdog5150 posted January 14, 2004 03:01 PM *** ** * ** * * ** **
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite a few years ago I was a lifty who had a situation where the dad tried to take his baby out on the mountain in a pack. Dad was an expert skier & well respected and known at this particular mountain but my common sense (and the rules of the resort) said no, you may not ride up any lift. He was angry and finally I sent him to my boss in the Lift Dept. to talk about it. He backed me up and told him the same thing. While I'm not a parent still, common sense tells you that anything could go wrong despite your ability! Equipment failure, a side swipe, the baby's weight shifting, etc. Numerous things could happen so why risk harming a new born's life? I can understand a parent wanting to introduce their child to something so grand as skiing but you must be more realistic! I could never forgive myself if that child were harmed (if I were the parent or just the lifty )
P.S. BTW, a week later the
dad stopped by to say thanks to me!
I knew I did the right thing.




[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
post #87 of 88
Why does Sub t think Up racer is a mormon.
post #88 of 88
As I'm reading this I'm waiting for my Jean Kay's pasty to finish cooking in the oven.
Picked up a half dozen while I was in Marquette last weekend. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Got the good course report from U.P. and company. My racer was 0.06 out of first place. The rest of the MART crew was on the front page. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] Thanks guys.

[ January 20, 2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: SLATZ ]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Babies in backpacks on the slopes